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Brooklyndee and dmoney

SinCityCane said:
This is actually a generally accepted reality in football, but since you asked, here's an article I found by some knowledgeable football guys. Check out the section on "Arm talent". QB's do improve all the time. It's usually not related to significantly improved passing ability - & I've seen nothing from Malik that tells me he'll be an exception to the norm.

Quarterback Traits - Attainable vs Inheritable
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Couldn't agree more with that. It's been proven time after time.
 
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Whether rosier improves or not, the, main thing is, as of right now we at least have 3 other options. I'll say this, that's where having coach james coley was good, that guy just has an eye for college quarterback talent. See fromm at Georgia. And coley was the basically the first to offer brad kaaya to as well.

With coach richt here, we'll be in good hands at the qb spot. The one thing about richt tho, he likes to start seasoned qb's, in this microwave era of young qb's wanting to come in and start right away, that's the challenge. I like how we're looking thus far with kosi redshirting, along with weldon. Havjng 3 guys developing is actually the best way to do it, this way, receivers will come in knowing they'll have guys who can get them the ball in practice to help their development.
 
SinCityCane said:
The areas where Malik needs improvement - accuracy, ball placement, target anticipation among others - are typically not areas in which QBs improve much with experience. An inaccurate or inconsistent passer in his 5th year on the team pretty much is what he is - an average QB who came through in some of this team's biggest moments in decades. I don't think that'll be enough to keep the starting job from a driven elite talent like Jarren. We'll find out soon enough.
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SinCityCane said:
The areas where Malik needs improvement - accuracy, ball placement, target anticipation among others - are typically not areas in which QBs improve much with experience. An inaccurate or inconsistent passer in his 5th year on the team pretty much is what he is - an average QB who came through in some of this team's biggest moments in decades. I don't think that'll be enough to keep the starting job from a driven elite talent like Jarren. We'll find out soon enough.
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Target anticipation most definitely improves with experience. Pocket presence and mechanics when live can to an extent improve with experience. It is not unreasonable to think that Rosier can be a more consistent quarterback this year. Berlin was a turnover machine in 2003 and had a nice senior season. He went from 12 TDs/17 INTs to 22 TDs/6 INTs. If he had that same defense as 2003, Miami goes undefeated. We lost 3 closes games. Same for Harris who had 1 bad game in 2011. His last against BC. Other than that his completion percentage when from 54.8% to 65.0% and his interceptions went from 15 to 9. Just stating statistical facts. Yes, Rosier has limitations, but he can be better. Whether he wins the job and/or holds on to it remains to be seen. What is clear is he has young bucks gunning for his job.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
Target anticipation most definitely improves with experience. Pocket presence and mechanics when live can to an extent improve with experience. It is not unreasonable to think that Rosier can be a more consistent quarterback this year. Berlin was a turnover machine in 2003 and had a nice senior season. He went from 12 TDs/17 INTs to 22 TDs/6 INTs. If he had that same defense as 2003, Miami goes undefeated. We lost 3 closes games. Same for Harris who had 1 bad game in 2011. His last against BC. Other than that his completion percentage when from 54.8% to 65.0% and his interceptions went from 15 to 9. Just stating statistical facts. Yes, Rosier has limitations, but he can be better. Whether he wins the job and/or holds on to it remains to be seen. What is clear is he has young bucks gunning for his job.
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I can see the argument for anticipation improving, as it involves reading coverages, but that also becomes irrelevant if you can't hit your target.
Berlin's INT stats had little to do with his arm. He made some poor desicions at times, but that guy could make all the throws. Harris' 54% was in his Junior season. His percentage was at or over 60% in his other seasons, including his freshman year. Both were much better passers than Rosier is. It's not really even close.
 
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The problem is that CiS “analysts” attribute far too much accuracy to sheer arm talent. At this level, accuracy is more than the ability to throw a ball through a tire. You don’t become a dual sport athlete at a major division one program without being able to throw.

No. At this level accuracy is more between the ears than in the arm. Understanding the play and what it’s designed to accomplish, recognizing what you’re seeing from the defense and what they’re giving you, and anticipating where to go with the ball before it’s open, weighs more heavily on accuracy than arm talent. Yeah you have to have a certain level of arm talent to work with, and some guys have it in spades over others, but I’ve seen Rosier step up into a blitz and deliver the ball 50 yards down field right through a receiver’s hands. He has enough arm talent.

His biggest problem is his elongated motion. Obviously you’d prefer a guy closer to Dan Marino than Doug Flutie, but give the guy enough room in the pocket to operate and he can be accurate enough. Rewatch the Duke game. He started that game 9 for 9 in the first quarter. He was working his progressions, taking his check downs when he had to, and hit 6 different receivers. Walton was running it well, we were balanced, and the Duke defense was off balance. It was stealing. We were even 3 for 5 on 3rd down.

Then Walton got his ankle stepped on and everything went to ****. Rosier got sacked 4 times in the 2nd—one wasn’t counted because Rosier tucked it and tried to run—and all of a sudden couldn’t hit a bull in the *** with a bass fiddle.

I cannot stress enough how much being able to run the ball and stay balanced will improve Rosier’s accuracy, or anyone’s for that matter.

I also cannot stress enough that throwing the ball is only half of being a QB in a Pro-Style offense. And that’s what we’re going to run. Whoever is under center in 2018 is going to live and die by our ability to run the football and maintain balance.
 
Loose Cannon said:
The problem is that CiS “analysts” attribute far too much accuracy to sheer arm talent. At this level, accuracy is more than the ability to throw a ball through a tire. You don’t become a dual sport athlete at a major division one program without being able to throw.

No. At this level accuracy is more between the ears than in the arm. Understanding the play and what it’s designed to accomplish, recognizing what you’re seeing from the defense and what they’re giving you, and anticipating where to go with the ball before it’s open, weighs more heavily on accuracy than arm talent. Yeah you have to have a certain level of arm talent to work with, and some guys have it in spades over others, but I’ve seen Rosier step up into a blitz and deliver the ball 50 yards down field right through a receiver’s hands. He has enough arm talent.

His biggest problem is his elongated motion. Obviously you’d prefer a guy closer to Dan Marino than Doug Flutie, but give the guy enough room in the pocket to operate and he can be accurate enough. Rewatch the Duke game. He started that game 9 for 9 in the first quarter. He was working his progressions, taking his check downs when he had to, and hit 6 different receivers. Walton was running it well, we were balanced, and the Duke defense was off balance. It was stealing. We were even 3 for 5 on 3rd down.

Then Walton got his ankle stepped on and everything went to ****. Rosier got sacked 4 times in the 2nd—one wasn’t counted because Rosier tucked it and tried to run—and all of a sudden couldn’t hit a bull in the *** with a bass fiddle.

I cannot stress enough how much being able to run the ball and stay balanced will improve Rosier’s accuracy, or anyone’s for that matter.

I also cannot stress enough that throwing the ball is only half of being a QB in a Pro-Style offense. And that’s what we’re going to run. Whoever is under center in 2018 is going to live and die by our ability to run the football and maintain balance.
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None of this changes the fact that Malik is inaccurate.

Even on compilations, he would often put the ball in a place that would minimize YAC, instead of maximizing it.

Obviously a strong run game opens up the pass more. Obviously the QB needs to throw it to the correct guy. I disagree those things will help improve his accuracy. Only practice and repititions can do that.
 
scrantoncane said:
None of this changes the fact that Malik is inaccurate.

Even on compilations, he would often put the ball in a place that would minimize YAC, instead of maximizing it.

Obviously a strong run game opens up the pass more. Obviously the QB needs to throw it to the correct guy. I disagree those things will help improve his accuracy. Only practice and repititions can do that.
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If it wasn’t clear, I wasn’t arguing Malik’s accuracy. That would be stupid.

I thought we were having a friendly discussion over whether or not Rosier’s accuracy issues were correctable.
 
Loose Cannon said:
If it wasn’t clear, I wasn’t arguing Malik’s accuracy. That would be stupid.

I thought we were having a friendly discussion over whether or not Rosier’s accuracy issues were correctable.
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My bad. And I lean towards ‘it can get better (with practice, like I said), but will never be above-average P5’ accurate.

Just from personal experience, I don’t know how one couldn’t get better at something if they continue to practice it.
 
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The main thing about Rosier that jumps out at me is yes, he's a fifth year senior, BUT a one year starter. I see all the issues that everyone else does. He sat behind Kayaa for 3 years and had very little playing time. There was also Kayaa deciding to leave and the cluster with Sherriffs. My hope is that with the one year experience as a starter and year 2 1st string coaching and reps, he improves enough to be able to utilize the talent around him.
 
Loose Cannon said:
The problem is that CiS “analysts” attribute far too much accuracy to sheer arm talent. At this level, accuracy is more than the ability to throw a ball through a tire. You don’t become a dual sport athlete at a major division one program without being able to throw.

No. At this level accuracy is more between the ears than in the arm. Understanding the play and what it’s designed to accomplish, recognizing what you’re seeing from the defense and what they’re giving you, and anticipating where to go with the ball before it’s open, weighs more heavily on accuracy than arm talent. Yeah you have to have a certain level of arm talent to work with, and some guys have it in spades over others, but I’ve seen Rosier step up into a blitz and deliver the ball 50 yards down field right through a receiver’s hands. He has enough arm talent.

His biggest problem is his elongated motion. Obviously you’d prefer a guy closer to Dan Marino than Doug Flutie, but give the guy enough room in the pocket to operate and he can be accurate enough. Rewatch the Duke game. He started that game 9 for 9 in the first quarter. He was working his progressions, taking his check downs when he had to, and hit 6 different receivers. Walton was running it well, we were balanced, and the Duke defense was off balance. It was stealing. We were even 3 for 5 on 3rd down.

Then Walton got his ankle stepped on and everything went to ****. Rosier got sacked 4 times in the 2nd—one wasn’t counted because Rosier tucked it and tried to run—and all of a sudden couldn’t hit a bull in the *** with a bass fiddle.

I cannot stress enough how much being able to run the ball and stay balanced will improve Rosier’s accuracy, or anyone’s for that matter.

I also cannot stress enough that throwing the ball is only half of being a QB in a Pro-Style offense. And that’s what we’re going to run. Whoever is under center in 2018 is going to live and die by our ability to run the football and maintain balance.
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Accuracy is putting the ball on the money when throwing at a target. Not that it's any less relevant, but you're broadening the scope to overall execution. Understanding where to throw the ball has nothing to do with the ability to hit what you're aiming at. Being able to step into a blitz & throw a dime - which is actually an underappreciated quality of Malik's (poise under pressure) - doesn't always involve good arm talent. Being able to do it consistently does.

I also think Richt will keep the pass ratio up for the time being with the ridiculous WR/TE group he's got. He'll always have balance, but those guys are too good not to maximize.

While a strong running game will always help passing execution for a variety of reasons - opening up passing windows, for instance - it has no effect on a QB's throwing accuracy.
 
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You don't turn your back on 5th year starter who won division title for first time and got us one win from playoffs unless there is clear cut replacement busting the door down. Rosier deserves massive credit for winning the type of games we have been losing for years. I think he probably overachieved and am not sure he will get better but winning tight games in last minute is not something you just dismiss because he has flaws too.

Smart coach would never let 5th year senior starter with 10 wins and divisional title win know he is not starting that last year. Kid will certainly take shot somewhere else. On that alone, Rosier starts LSU. But Mark is a really good guy and might just tell Rosier if he is not the guy so kid can go somewhere else to play next year. Saban, JJ and maybe even Howard would never, but Mark might. That is the great thing and the horrible thing about Mark in one picture.
 
Rosier is our starter and has earned that right regardless if we like it or not. No one has proven to be better than him, yet. Let’s ride Rosier until he shows he isn’t capable AND we have someone better to put in.
 
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Malik needs to make a jump similar to that, that he made last year. He needs to be able to consistently hit receivers in stride to allow them to use their unparalleled open field abilities.
If he can’t do that they need to go with one of the younger guys who hopefully can....
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Nice post about “accuracy, ball placement, target anticipation among others - are typically not areas in which QBs improve much with experience” except for one thing - you kind of made up the part about QBs not improving this much with experience.

Where did you get that from?

You’ve never heard of a starter improving in his second year as a starter in college? Because it happens all the time.

I mean no offense, nice try, but it’s just something you made up.

Malik may or may not improve, but it’ll have nothing to do with your rules.
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Seriously!

Those were areas I improved significantly between my freshman year and senior year. (placement/accuracy and anticipation).

My freshman year I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a stick, and my QB coach used to joke I should have stuck with rowing instead of football. And I ended up all conference at the position my final year in college. So I don't know what this guy is saying, other than to hear himself talk.
 
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OL OL OL

Our success in 2018 is even more reliant on the OL than in 2017. We have to be able to run the ball more consistently, if we can do that Rosier will immediately improve. Our 3rd down conversion gets better, we can play action better, it makes the RPOs more deadly. If we are more than 60/40 pass to run in 2018 we are in trouble
 
let Rosier miss wide open targets like last year, he will get pulled and never see the field again.
 
RedSquare said:
Seriously!

Those were areas I improved significantly between my freshman year and senior year. (placement/accuracy and anticipation).

My freshman year I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a stick, and my QB coach used to joke I should have stuck with rowing instead of football. And I ended up all conference at the position my final year in college. So I don't know what this guy is saying, other than to hear himself talk.
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The basis for your argument is being terrible as a freshman. Maybe you don't grasp the concept of what "typically" means. Your level of improvement in those areas - in whatever conference you supposedly played in - doesn't happen often, much less in P5 football where most QBs coming out of HS have some level of accuracy. Those that can't hit the broad side of a barn usually see an early position change.

As it pertains to this Canes team, it's completely irrelevant - we have not seen Malik on your superstar trajectory. He was 20 of 29 as a freshman against Duke & 54% last season.

Congrats on your illustrious football career though.
 
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