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Bridge Collapse

If we ever do cross paths in real life, feel free to throw a punch; I'll own you there too.

Hard to do with you behind that skirt...
 
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Motion to close this ******* thread. Holy crap, you guys are pathetic. Arguing about grammar... university education, general contractor vs engineering... there is no place for this here. People are dead, and it shouldn't have happened, end of story.

Horrible but I suggest we get back to football because none of you have contributed to this thread in the correct manner.
 
MedleyCane said:
All that and no mention of Jim Otto?
Sacrilege.
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Geez....how could I forget?

The guy was one of the greatest warriors ever. Something like 30 knee surgeries. They finally had to amputate one lower leg. He probably played in that game I went to that day in Berkeley. I think that was the Dolphins first loss after the perfect season in '72.

When you consider the talent on those two teams....
 
GOCANES05 said:
I’m not sure anyone here knows this but MCM was the GC on TWO other bridge projects that also collapsed/ fell.
Plus MCM has a very long list of fines and lawsuits for being nice people mentioned earlier.
Approving them to do this project was and EPIC fail , only confirms the SWAMP still is alive and kicking.

If U we’re building a bridge and U knew this company had TWO collapsed / fall under there watch would U hire them to build another one ?
MCM is responsible they gave the GO AHEAD to install this bridge they signed off that all safety and installing instructions will followed per OSHA requirements.

I assure U OSHA and NTSB would not approve a load test with vehicle traffic under the bridge , it’s a cut and dry case MCM allowed the test under there watch jeopardizing the public with this test .
They opted to do the test incorrectly under there watch people died families gone.

Forget the structure faults if the test were done safely professionally the bridge structural faults would have shown and MCM would be shown as a life saver , now cutting corners going cheap to pocket project budgets saving rang loudly here .

They push lives aside to get to a dollar savings.

Watch soon they all will be eating there own young to save face , MCM is a political organization behind the scenes, but nothing to see here political favors in play here now.

SAD isn’t it but this IS the construction business it’s WORSE THEN WASHINGTON.

GOCANES
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Worse than Washington? That bad?
 
g8rh8rMD said:
No.

That’s like blaming McDonald’s for a plane crash just because you (or someone on the plane) were eating an a Egg McMuffin.

It could be both. But the issue is most likely due to a construction error rather than a design error. And yes, there is a big difference.
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again i am no bridge expert but i can almost guarantee the problem wasn't that it was built out of sequence. it is likely these guys screwed up but this was not some handyman doing this. what kind of professional, even one prone to mistakes, would do a major bridge project out of sequence? anything is possible but this is not likely.
 
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itsacanething said:
again i am no bridge expert but i can almost guarantee the problem wasn't that it was built out of sequence. it is likely these guys screwed up but this was not some handyman doing this. what kind of professional, even one prone to mistakes, would do a major bridge project out of sequence? anything is possible but this is not likely.
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I'm not saying they did it out of sequence, never have. I haven't even looked at the design or anything, I'm just going off of my construction experience, which is a lot more than most on this board, but far less than some.

What I'm saying is that we're talking about a pretty basic bridge structure here. The engineers who designed this weren't exactly re-inventing the wheel. It's far less likely in this scenario that the problem was caused by poor design and far more likely that it was caused by an error in construction or faulty material/component. Perhaps they got a bad batch of concrete and testing didn't reveal the issue for some reason. It could be a faulty cable. It could be that shoring wasn't adequate or left in place long enough. Unless you're designing some kind of ground breaking new structure that no one has ever tried to build before, errors in construction are going to be far more likely than a catastrophic design flaw.

And the design architect/engineer and the GC are two very separate and distinct entities with different roles, responsibilities, and sets of liability attached.. You can't lump the two together as some have suggested.
 
g8rh8rMD said:
I'm not saying they did it out of sequence, never have. I haven't even looked at the design or anything, I'm just going off of my construction experience, which is a lot more than most on this board, but far less than some.

What I'm saying is that we're talking about a pretty basic bridge structure here. The engineers who designed this weren't exactly re-inventing the wheel. It's far less likely in this scenario that the problem was caused by poor design and far more likely that it was caused by an error in construction or faulty material/component. Perhaps they got a bad batch of concrete and testing didn't reveal the issue for some reason. It could be a faulty cable. It could be that shoring wasn't adequate or left in place long enough. Unless you're designing some kind of ground breaking new structure that no one has ever tried to build before, errors in construction are going to be far more likely than a catastrophic design flaw.

And the design architect/engineer and the GC are two very separate and distinct entities with different roles, responsibilities, and sets of liability attached.. You can't lump the two together as some have suggested.
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the post you quoted said it was "out of sequence" which i thought was silly.
 
itsacanething said:
the post you quoted said it was "out of sequence" which i thought was silly.
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All good. My initial reaction would be with you as well. As I mentioned before, I haven't done any research or anything on this specific incident, so perhaps I should just keep my trap shut.

Looks like I need to eat my words a little bit. I met with a structural engineer this morning, had him in to take a peek at some minor spalling on a building I manage. I asked him what he thought. Again, I don't know how much this guy knows and how much he is making up or just going off what he saw on the news... He says it is pretty uncommon to erect such a structure in the sequence this one was done. It doesn't make sense that they would have left the support pylon and additional bracing for last, rather than build that first, and it's also odd that there would not have been shoring in place until tensioning and testing was complete. So, it sounds like, for some reason, someone decided to get creative with a simple pedestrian bridge. I'm glad I'm not anywhere in that room of people who had anything to do with this project. It doesn't sound like either the design team or the build team had an adequate respect for the consequences of any possible miscalculation.
 
g8rh8rMD said:
All good. My initial reaction would be with you as well. As I mentioned before, I haven't done any research or anything on this specific incident, so perhaps I should just keep my trap shut.

Looks like I need to eat my words a little bit. I met with a structural engineer this morning, had him in to take a peek at some minor spalling on a building I manage. I asked him what he thought. Again, I don't know how much this guy knows and how much he is making up or just going off what he saw on the news... He says it is pretty uncommon to erect such a structure in the sequence this one was done. It doesn't make sense that they would have left the support pylon and additional bracing for last, rather than build that first, and it's also odd that there would not have been shoring in place until tensioning and testing was complete. So, it sounds like, for some reason, someone decided to get creative with a simple pedestrian bridge. I'm glad I'm not anywhere in that room of people who had anything to do with this project. It doesn't sound like either the design team or the build team had an adequate respect for the consequences of any possible miscalculation.
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G8 U hit on it , the bottom line WHO approved of a stress test with pedestrian traffic allowed to pass under the bridge , also why wasn't OSHA ,MDC inspectors , company whom made the bridge, NTSB , Fire rescue , police and others in place for the test so if any defects show they can be identified quickly I would also want the lift use to install to also be in use right under the structure just below and of course NO TRAFFIC.


GOCANES
 
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Sadly, after the loss of life resulting from this disaster, and with all the national press coverage, plus the massive law suits that will be dealt out, this type of construction project will be avoided in the future. The findings from this accident investigation should point out numerous mistakes not just one. The haunting thought that my son drove under that bridge 7 minutes before the collapse keeps going around and around in my head.
My heart goes out to the victims and the families affected by this fiasco.
 
UMFarArcher said:
Tension cable snapped.

That's why it looked like it cracked so fast. Cranking the tension, and it popped.

Should have had traffic re-routed.
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Like I said, a tension cable snapped.

I saw photo of the rubble, and there's a good one with the cable shredded with the hydraulic tensioner - plain as day. I just don't understand why they're dancing around this.
 
FIU will be liabable for this along with the other two companies involved. FIU hired a GC and an engineer firm with a history of bridge collapsing in Virginia.

Someone previously mentioned shoring...there was no reason for this bridge not to have any shoring supporting it until the cables were installed.
 
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Now we're all getting to the heart of why and whom did this with no cussing,name calling,silly photos attacking another's contrasting point of view. This was and is a horrific tragedy of families ripped apart for ever never to be the same again.
Someone pulled the trigger to test in the way they did with absolutely no regard for human life but cost savings ( don't U ever forget $$$ is at the heart of this).
I saw on the news this AM former FIU President along with attorneys are now asking the same questions mentioned here , this is NOT rocket science WHO hit the button to test with human life right under the bridge even with a call of warning of cracks previously before the test THAT'S IT plain and simple.
Only other sad point do not forget this WILL get political real fast and people responsible could be cleared with a slap on the wrist (to big to fail) with some innocent person / company bystander taking the hit , to many suits involved here with VOTES and IOU 's in government involved along with others in power.

Keep in MIND ignore reality / common sense in all this politics will possibly water this all down we will all be very old when the LUNCH TRUCK DRIVER finally get the BLAME in all this for beeping the horn.

GOCANES
 
g8rh8rMD said:
No.

That’s like blaming McDonald’s for a plane crash just because you (or someone on the plane) were eating an a Egg McMuffin.

It could be both. But the issue is most likely due to a construction error rather than a design error. And yes, there is a big difference.
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Wrong
 
Awsi Dooger said:
CNN is phenomenal, and especially Don Lemon. He calmly defines everything in devastatingly accurate fashion.

This FIU situation was a tragedy. But the hilarity on this forum is that the world is collapsing around scared bigoted white people, and they are desperately trying to pretend otherwise. Lying is only required when the country otherwise rejects everything you stand for, and you realize that.

Trump has now gone from 4.9 lies or misleading statements per day to 6 per day. Upping his game: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...leading-claims-so-far/?utm_term=.c5c16bc8c5eb

If a serial liar of the other party occupied the White House, CNN and the Washington Post would be every bit as outraged and defining matters day to day. Right wingers are petrified of CNN and its impact on independent voters. That's why the lemmings spread familiar posts here and elsewhere. But Fox News is the one true cable news embarrassment, as demonstrated in this hilarious video of their personalities depicting the same decision in 100% different terms depending on whether Obama or Trump initiated:

https://nowthisnews.com/videos/poli...tions-regarding-negotiations-with-north-korea
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AssyBooger is the biggest gasbag on CiS. Nothing but bloviations and ffagggottry.
 
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GOCANES05 said:
I’m not sure anyone here knows this but MCM was the GC on TWO other bridge projects that also collapsed/ fell.
Plus MCM has a very long list of fines and lawsuits for being nice people mentioned earlier.
Approving them to do this project was and EPIC fail , only confirms the SWAMP still is alive and kicking.

If U we’re building a bridge and U knew this company had TWO collapsed / fall under there watch would U hire them to build another one ?
MCM is responsible they gave the GO AHEAD to install this bridge they signed off that all safety and installing instructions will followed per OSHA requirements.

I assure U OSHA and NTSB would not approve a load test with vehicle traffic under the bridge , it’s a cut and dry case MCM allowed the test under there watch jeopardizing the public with this test .
They opted to do the test incorrectly under there watch people died families gone.

Forget the structure faults if the test were done safely professionally the bridge structural faults would have shown and MCM would be shown as a life saver , now cutting corners going cheap to pocket project budgets saving rang loudly here .

They push lives aside to get to a dollar savings.

Watch soon they all will be eating there own young to save face , MCM is a political organization behind the scenes, but nothing to see here political favors in play here now.

SAD isn’t it but this IS the construction business it’s WORSE THEN WASHINGTON.

GOCANES
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did they close the 826/836 roadways when testing? my understanding is that you cant always close a roadway to test bridges, elevated highways etc. not saying they should not be closed, just suggesting that sometimes they are not closed.
 
rsa coral gables said:
did they close the 826/836 roadways when testing? my understanding is that you cant always close a roadway to test bridges, elevated highways etc. not saying they should not be closed, just suggesting that sometimes they are not closed.
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GREAT question especially with the maze of overhead passes , connections WOW can't answer that I stay away from the craziness of 826/836 and drive turnpike or I-75 Saw-grass but probably not geeez never thought of that..

GOCANES
 
g8rh8rMD said:
All good. My initial reaction would be with you as well. As I mentioned before, I haven't done any research or anything on this specific incident, so perhaps I should just keep my trap shut.

Looks like I need to eat my words a little bit. I met with a structural engineer this morning, had him in to take a peek at some minor spalling on a building I manage. I asked him what he thought. Again, I don't know how much this guy knows and how much he is making up or just going off what he saw on the news... He says it is pretty uncommon to erect such a structure in the sequence this one was done. It doesn't make sense that they would have left the support pylon and additional bracing for last, rather than build that first, and it's also odd that there would not have been shoring in place until tensioning and testing was complete. So, it sounds like, for some reason, someone decided to get creative with a simple pedestrian bridge. I'm glad I'm not anywhere in that room of people who had anything to do with this project. It doesn't sound like either the design team or the build team had an adequate respect for the consequences of any possible miscalculation.
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I'm the one that mentioned that the bridge seemed to have been put up "out of sequence"

And that ( see the bold and underlined above^^^) is exactly what I was referring to. The main span is usually put up after the bridge supports are in place in order to be able to support its full weight. ( which is the safest way )

BTW I've worked as a Engineering Project Manager for over 20 years. That's not to say that I know everything about bridge construction, especially ABC construction, which I've never claimed, BUT based on my experiences, I stand by the statement I made.

As I've also said before none of us will know the all the facts until the investigation is completed. I'm willing to wait and not speculate further beyond what I've already said
 
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