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Beyond who our DC is, and who calls plays- here's my question:...

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DMoney said:
The thought process there is that offenses in 2021 are too good. The only way to succeed is to (1) avoid explosive plays; (2) kill drives with negative plays and turnovers; and (3) tighten up in the red zone. The penetrating front helps you with the negative plays, the softer back end helps you avoid explosive plays.

The question is whether you can stop high-quality offenses from executing going up and down the field. Manny is betting you can as the talent improves. We will see.
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The thought process you describe is wrong, IMO. Basic analytics would say so. Football is down and distance. You really need to adjust the D to situation. The goal is basically to force third down passing plays of 5+ yards and win your share of them. Betting everything on turnovers is fools gold The cost of giving up quick first downs because your over-penetration failed and people weren't contained properly is a lot higher than Manny seems to recognize, particularly against good teams.
 
k9cane said:
will the Miami defense be coached at a higher, more competent level?

You can talk all you want about systems and schemes, and play-calls and play-callers. And of course beyond the X-and-O's, the Jimmy's and Joe's. I get that completely, both matter.

Yet, my biggest problem with the unit the past few years it that I saw far too many times the edges not being set, run plays being bounced outside for big yardage, no gap integrity or lane discipline, etc. That stuff goes beyond systems or play-calls. Our individual units (especially the linebacker) are not well-coached

Also, too many times on 2nd and 3rd and longs, where you know a draw play of some sort is coming, they get gashed for big yards - by those exact kind of plays you should be on the alert for. The lack of situational football awareness was alarming. Nobody could tell me we were a unit that was well coached and prepared on a consistent basis.

Hey, I'm not exactly Asian Bud Carson, but you don't have to be a michelin 5-star chef to know when you've had an awful meal and dont want to go back to a certain restaurant again. A layman could see that our defense the past two seasons looked unorganized and at times in flat out disarray. It actually goes beyond the destruction from UNC.

Nobody that I trust on this board that really knows the diagnostics of technical football has told me that we are a well-coached unit on this side of the ball. We have had some individual talent that has hid some of those flaws, but eventually, they also suffered as a result.

@gogeta4 pointed out something very interesting to me a few weeks ago. On the front end, Miami is overly reckless as they get upfield and get tackles for losses and sacks, but on the back end they play a real bend-but-dont-break. Again, it doesn't take Bill Belichick to figure out that those two philosophies can not work at the same time for one defense.

This upcoming season is going to be interesting, there are some high quality recruits coming in that have a real chance (or should have) the chance to play early. They would significantly upgrade the speed and athleticism of this unit. But my question is, will they be coached and developed individually, and will they be playing in a sound scheme?
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But my question is, will they be coached and developed individually, and will they be playing in a sound scheme?
NO
 
JayCane20 said:
No chance with 53. I think the bowl game him playing DE was either self-admitting that he sucked or staff finally realized it.

I know Brooks played hurt all year as well.

As for 44... I hope they see he’s terrible as well but I’m skeptical
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I’d love to see 44 transfer out to Maryland. Go play with little bro, it’d be an experience of a lifetime! And.... our young bucks get ALL the reps.
 
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k9cane said:
will the Miami defense be coached at a higher, more competent level?

You can talk all you want about systems and schemes, and play-calls and play-callers. And of course beyond the X-and-O's, the Jimmy's and Joe's. I get that completely, both matter.

Yet, my biggest problem with the unit the past few years it that I saw far too many times the edges not being set, run plays being bounced outside for big yardage, no gap integrity or lane discipline, etc. That stuff goes beyond systems or play-calls. Our individual units (especially the linebacker) are not well-coached

Also, too many times on 2nd and 3rd and longs, where you know a draw play of some sort is coming, they get gashed for big yards - by those exact kind of plays you should be on the alert for. The lack of situational football awareness was alarming. Nobody could tell me we were a unit that was well coached and prepared on a consistent basis.

Hey, I'm not exactly Asian Bud Carson, but you don't have to be a michelin 5-star chef to know when you've had an awful meal and dont want to go back to a certain restaurant again. A layman could see that our defense the past two seasons looked unorganized and at times in flat out disarray. It actually goes beyond the destruction from UNC.

Nobody that I trust on this board that really knows the diagnostics of technical football has told me that we are a well-coached unit on this side of the ball. We have had some individual talent that has hid some of those flaws, but eventually, they also suffered as a result.

@gogeta4 pointed out something very interesting to me a few weeks ago. On the front end, Miami is overly reckless as they get upfield and get tackles for losses and sacks, but on the back end they play a real bend-but-dont-break. Again, it doesn't take Bill Belichick to figure out that those two philosophies can not work at the same time for one defense.

This upcoming season is going to be interesting, there are some high quality recruits coming in that have a real chance (or should have) the chance to play early. They would significantly upgrade the speed and athleticism of this unit. But my question is, will they be coached and developed individually, and will they be playing in a sound scheme?
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Amen.

To answer your last question... No.
 
Derrick Griffin said:
I’d love to see 44 transfer out to Maryland. Go play with little bro, it’d be an experience of a lifetime! And.... our young bucks get ALL the reps.
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44 is the absolute worst LB I’ve ever seen playing with a split U on his helmet. I don’t know if he can fix some of the **** that he put on film last year. Dudes that play like him or usually either scared as fucc, blind, or trying to get somebody’s a55 fired!
 
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KANE said:
44 is the absolute worst LB I’ve ever seen playing with a split U on his helmet. I don’t know if he can fix some of the **** that he put on film last year. Dudes that play like him or usually either scared as fucc, blind, or trying to get somebody’s a55 fired!
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McCloud was worse, in my opinion. Jennings occaaaaaaasionally would be in the right spot and make some plays, but McCloud almost never did.

Jennings is a backup MLB who is only serviceable against vanilla, run-heavy offenses.
 
k9cane said:
will the Miami defense be coached at a higher, more competent level?

You can talk all you want about systems and schemes, and play-calls and play-callers. And of course beyond the X-and-O's, the Jimmy's and Joe's. I get that completely, both matter.

Yet, my biggest problem with the unit the past few years it that I saw far too many times the edges not being set, run plays being bounced outside for big yardage, no gap integrity or lane discipline, etc. That stuff goes beyond systems or play-calls. Our individual units (especially the linebacker) are not well-coached

Also, too many times on 2nd and 3rd and longs, where you know a draw play of some sort is coming, they get gashed for big yards - by those exact kind of plays you should be on the alert for. The lack of situational football awareness was alarming. Nobody could tell me we were a unit that was well coached and prepared on a consistent basis.

Hey, I'm not exactly Asian Bud Carson, but you don't have to be a michelin 5-star chef to know when you've had an awful meal and dont want to go back to a certain restaurant again. A layman could see that our defense the past two seasons looked unorganized and at times in flat out disarray. It actually goes beyond the destruction from UNC.

Nobody that I trust on this board that really knows the diagnostics of technical football has told me that we are a well-coached unit on this side of the ball. We have had some individual talent that has hid some of those flaws, but eventually, they also suffered as a result.

@gogeta4 pointed out something very interesting to me a few weeks ago. On the front end, Miami is overly reckless as they get upfield and get tackles for losses and sacks, but on the back end they play a real bend-but-dont-break. Again, it doesn't take Bill Belichick to figure out that those two philosophies can not work at the same time for one defense.

This upcoming season is going to be interesting, there are some high quality recruits coming in that have a real chance (or should have) the chance to play early. They would significantly upgrade the speed and athleticism of this unit. But my question is, will they be coached and developed individually, and will they be playing in a sound scheme?
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Great post Steve. You did a great job clearly articulating what has been on the minds of most of the knowledgeable segment of this fan base. You are correct however that one need not posses a doctorate in advanced football schematics to realize that something was clearly wrong with this defense and that that particular something had its roots outside the areas of scheme or play calling.

The decline of this defense over the last 2 seasons is the result of a deteriorating foundation in terms of the basic fundamentals that you cited above like edges not being set. The overall lack of preparation and attention to detail became progressively worse until it reached the level that we all witnessed in the UNC debacle.

You said something very interesting when you mentioned how the front 4 plays a hyper aggressive and reckless style while the secondary plays with a ridiculously cautious bend don't break, dont give up the big play type of style. You said that these two conflicting philosophies can never be expected to work together and generally I do agree with you. However, is not the unorthodox marriage of these two paradoxical philosophies the crux of Diaz's system? I believe it is and I am of the opinion that what we witnessed the past 2 seasons in terms of the defense's decline has a great deal to do with the level of leadership and the quality of coaching on the Defensive side of the ball. When Diaz was the DC we still saw some of the problems being discussed but to a significantly lesser extent IMO. There were obvious position coaching deficiencies on defense while Diaz was the DC but the fact that Diaz was an experienced coordinator together with the fact that he always had an elite DL coach served to mitigate those flaws. When the inexperienced Baker took over at DC it was his first time as a coordinator on the P5 level. To further compound matters Baker was paired with DL coach Todd Stroud who while being competent and experienced was more of a journeyman type coach. The downgrading of the DC and DL coach positions meant that the mediocre coaching elsewhere on defense could no longer be covered up and the inevitable result was the steady decline that we all witnessed.

I have a very close friend who is what I would term a "football savant" and if he has taught me anything in the 20 plus years I have known him it's the following. COACHING COACHING COACHING! Yes having the players is very important. The Jimmies and Joe's most definitely matter but without quality coaching it won't matter. Say what you want about Diaz and he has his faults to be sure but the man is not a fool. He saw the same things we did and whether or not it was his doing or a fortuitous turn of events that led to the complete overhaul of the defensive staff is besides the point. Diaz filled those positions with excellent and qualified coaches. Bringing back Jess Simpson, the hiring of DB coach and former DC Travaris Robinson, defensive analyst and former DC Bob Shoop and LB coach Travis Williams were the types of hires made by someone who is serious about building a winner. It's most unfortunate that coach TWill left shortly after arriving to take the DC position at UCF but the upgrade to the defensive staff is unmistakable and undeniable.

The real question here is if the overhaul of the defensive staff will be the remedy for the issues mentioned above. Color me an incurable optimist or a blind homer but I honestly and realistically think that it will. I still have concerns about LB mostly. @k9cane Is absolutely right when he says that this unit(LB) has been poorly coached. Can coach Patke affect positive change at this position? Does new Striker coach Ishmael Aristide have the coaching chops? Does Patke? Aristide has a reputation for being a fantastic recruiter and that is a huge bonus given our struggles at evaluating and recruiting the LB position.
 
The Sphinx said:
McCloud was worse, in my opinion. Jennings occaaaaaaasionally would be in the right spot and make some plays, but McCloud almost never did.

Jennings is a backup MLB who is only serviceable against vanilla, run-heavy offenses.
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Well..... if you put 2 turds of **** next to each other and stare at both of em long enough, I’m pretty sure that one would start to look a lil better than the other one. 🤷🏾‍♂️
 
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caneinorlando said:
Our LBer coaching & play has been abysmal far too long....Even when Shaq was here it was mediocre....UM should NEVER see such shoddy LBer play....
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This is true without question. I remember seeing mediocre LB play during the probation years of the mid 90s but what we have seen out of that position group the past few years including pre Baker has ranged anywhere from mediocre to flat out abysmal. It should go without saying that this should never be the case at UM. However upon further analysis of this situation it becomes fairly obvious that at least part of the issue stems from the type of scheme we are running. Is that an excuse for Diaz? Not a chance. Diaz has seen that there are clear systematic and schematic flaws in this defense regarding LB play. It almost seems as though while this defense was being put together nobody could figure out how to fully integrate LB play within the context of the scheme. Consequently it seems as if the LBs are freelancing most of the time. A very good friend of mine who lives, eats, breathes and shyts football says that the LBs play like they are on a completely different page from the DL and he is absolutely correct.

I love the new defensive staff and they should help immensely but to me the real key to sorting all of this out was the Bob Shoop hire. Aside from the obvious value that Shoop brings to the table in terms of experience, prior success and overall coaching acumen, this hire tells me that Diaz recognizes these flaws and is willing to bring in an accomplished veteran coach in order to help him tweek, refine and ultimately improve upon his defensive scheme. It tells me that Diaz realizes that he doesn't need to be the smartest guy in the room and that he knows he needs help in order to add to and strengthen his repertoire.
 
FrancisSawyer said:
This is true without question. I remember seeing mediocre LB play during the probation years of the mid 90s but what we have seen out of that position group the past few years including pre Baker has ranged anywhere from mediocre to flat out abysmal. It should go without saying that this should never be the case at UM. However upon further analysis of this situation it becomes fairly obvious that at least part of the issue stems from the type of scheme we are running. Is that an excuse for Diaz? Not a chance. Diaz has seen that there are clear systematic and schematic flaws in this defense regarding LB play. It almost seems as though while this defense was being put together nobody could figure out how to fully integrate LB play within the context of the scheme. Consequently it seems as if the LBs are freelancing most of the time. A very good friend of mine who lives, eats, breathes and shyts football says that the LBs play like they are on a completely different page from the DL and he is absolutely correct.

I love the new defensive staff and they should help immensely but to me the real key to sorting all of this out was the Bob Shoop hire. Aside from the obvious value that Shoop brings to the table in terms of experience, prior success and overall coaching acumen, this hire tells me that Diaz recognizes these flaws and is willing to bring in an accomplished veteran coach in order to help him tweek, refine and ultimately improve upon his defensive scheme. It tells me that Diaz realizes that he doesn't need to be the smartest guy in the room and that he knows he needs help in order to add to and strengthen his repertoire.
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Even the mid 90s had better LBer play....and thats with sanctions....once 98 rolled around and we finally had an ounce of depth...our LBer play became Elite....
 
caneinorlando said:
Even the mid 90s had better LBer play....and thats with sanctions....once 98 rolled around and we finally had an ounce of depth...our LBer play became Elite....
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Rod Mack was a starter early in his career in to becoming a quality backup at the end of it. That was the evolution of the program under Butch Davis
 
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k9cane said:
Rod Mack was a starter early in his career in to becoming a quality backup at the end of it. That was the evolution of the program under Butch Davis
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Loved Rod...But Nate was my Guy...and always will be (regardless of his Legal problems) just the way he treated my Son, will always be endearing to me....300+ tackles in only 22 games at UM.....Insane...not to mention 400+ tackles at MNW....
 
caneinorlando said:
Loved Rod...But Nate was my Guy...and always will be (regardless of his Legal problems) just the way he treated my Son, will always be instilled in me....300+ tackles in only 22 games at UM.....Insane...not to mention 400+ tackles at MNW....
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Webster was absolutely one of the key recruits of the Butch era. He was part of the foundation that was laid
 
caneinorlando said:
Absolute Savage on & off the field Lol....and there was actually some people on CIS that thought Shaq was better and would've started over Nate....smh....
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There was one season where him and Dan averaged like 14 & 17 tackles per game, or some absurd number like that.
How many schools are able to field 2 LB's like that side-by-side? Man we were blessed.
 
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