Agents

[BoxingRobes]

It's not coercive labor because no football player has to accept the offer of a scholarship.....These kids are getting into the situation knowing full well how it works. It becomes complicated when outside influences (family, agents, etc) insert themselves into the equation. Unfortunately, in this crazy world, the only way for top notch high school athlete's to continue on towards the pros is via college. The NCAA could offer football players the option of entering the NFL draft right out of high school. But then what NFL team would jump on that without having a minor league to assess how a player is progressing towards the big leagues?

It's a conundrum. Maybe the solution is for all colleges to enact the Ivy League model.....little to no athletic scholarships.

What you just described is indentured servitude...which is coercive.

 

[JD08]

It goes beyond that.

For G.R., it is also about the POSSIBILITY (and the MAGA crowd can debate the percentage of that possibility) that the ability to convert your preparation into a job in 8 months could be permanently impaired.

I am not arguing for or against Greg's decision. I am saying it is a decision that I can respect.

Let me just give you an example.

UM has a Chemistry Department. You can major in Chemistry. You could have a full-tuition scholarship to Miami as a Chemistry major.

Now, there are risks. You could conceivably spill chemicals that burn your fingers off. We can debate that likelihood, but let's not pretend it's not a possibility. ****, when I took Chemistry at UM (when I was an Engineering major before I switched to the B-School), there were a lot of precautions and protocols just for my Intro to Chem class (well, the lab portion, as the class was in a big lecture hall).

Let's move ahead. If I was in my final year of Chemistry, and I had a six-figure job offer lined up after graduation, and it was very likely that my abilities would allow me to file patents after graduation (since any work you produce while a student belongs to the university)...and then one of my professors approaches me about a very risky experiment that he wants to do, one in which I would be in danger of burning off my fingers and losing the entire career for which I had prepared...

Again, it's an imperfect comparison. But it's at least one where we could see some parallels.

YOU mentioned "seniors on the practice squad" opting out. I merely answered "No". Meaning, no, those players do not have the same "NFL career" risk that Greg does. I am not judging that or trying to draw a bright line between "right" and "wrong". I am simply acknowledging that those "seniors on the practice squad" have a DIFFERENT financial risk, even if they have the same health risk.

That is all. No need to make my original "No" answer any bigger or smaller than it was intended to be.

You and I both know, there are many people (not everyone, but many people) who are letting their political feelings bleed into this. A month ago, everyone on the board LOVED Greg. Now there are a bunch of people (and you can be honest, it is disproportionately political, even if there are some liberals who are also mad that Greg opted out) who are trying to create monolithic "one answer only" responses to a complex decision.

"I hope Greg is going to stay inside for the next 8 months and not see anyone and not touch anything."

"I hope Greg drops to the 7th round to punish him for being so selfish."

"Greg stabbed his teammates in the back, he is a horrible human being, he is a coward, he is self-centered, he is not loyal, I hope UM pulls his scholarship, sends him a bill for his books, disassociates him from UM, pulls his UM alum status, and gets a court injunction preventing him from ever wearing orange and/or green again."

But there's a recap of a very vocal portion of the responses thus far.

You and I may not always agree on everything. I get it. But you can go back to January, I have been asking for better, wider-spread, and faster Covid-19 testing. I realize that I "vote Democrat" more often than not, but I've been calling for better leadership from the outset, so that we would never reach this point. But it didn't happen, and now a lot of people are having to make a lot of complex and painful decisions.

8 months into this disaster, I'm not going to judge Greg harshly. I was so excited to see him play this year. But it's not happening, and I can certainly understand why his decision is different from those of "seniors on the practice squad".

That's all.

I'm not judging him harshly at all. Or any of the others. They don't owe me an explanation at all. But I bristle at the implication that they're doing so because Covid is this horrible thing that's going to ruin their life permanently and that catching it is a huge possibility. It's CFB, not Death Race.

They can opt out without playing up Covid.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

They are more than adequately taken care of.
Look at the XFL salaries for example which is the closest comp to a "feeder" league you're proposing. 55k average.

Students at UM are receiving 80K+ a year value. That's close to a 115K pre-tax.

"More than adequately taken care of"?

In what world?

You certainly skip over the fact that football players at state schools get a lot less "value" (since tuition is a lot cheaper).

And you ignore the issue of fundamental fairness, where a non-athlete student can get a part-time job, while a scholarship-athlete largely cannot do the same thing.

Not to mention the fact that the ONLY reason the "XFL salaries" have a 55K average is because the XFL is a LOT LESS POPULAR than NCAA football. So if you were to let the "free market" dictate salaries, college football players "should be" paid multiples of an XFL salary. I mean, if we are comparing apples to apples.

 

[hoops156]

"More than adequately taken care of"?

In what world?

You certainly skip over the fact that football players at state schools get a lot less "value" (since tuition is a lot cheaper).

And you ignore the issue of fundamental fairness, where a non-athlete student can get a part-time job, while a scholarship-athlete largely cannot do the same thing.

Not to mention the fact that the ONLY reason the "XFL salaries" have a 55K average is because the XFL is a LOT LESS POPULAR than NCAA football. So if you were to let the "free market" dictate salaries, college football players "should be" paid multiples of an XFL salary. I mean, if we are comparing apples to apples.

g league just upped their salaries for the elite talent to somewhere near 500k which got a few of the top 20 kids to sign with them.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

verb (used with object), co·erced, co·erc·ing.​

to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document.
to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience.
to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual.

Clearly....no one is being coerced to accept an athletic scholarship. How, exactly, are players being coerced? Who is forcing any HS football player to go to a college and pay NOTHING in return for playing a sport? They always have the right to say NO!

Again, you clearly don’t understand the definition - even though some of the words are staring you in the face.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I'm not judging him harshly at all. Or any of the others. They don't owe me an explanation at all. But I bristle at the implication that they're doing so because Covid is this horrible thing that's going to ruin their life permanently and that catching it is a huge possibility. It's CFB, not Death Race.

They can opt out without playing up Covid.

I can respect what you are saying. My quarrel is not with you at all.

But I would also point out that the ONLY REASON the "opt-out" exists is due to Covid.

Playing it up, or staying quiet...I don't know, I'm not sure it makes a huge difference.

You and I agree, all student-athletes will face health risks. And, yes, there is a possibility that Covid could permanently ruin someone's life. Maybe not a huge possibility, but it does exist.

And while a lot of us study a lot of medical literature these days, I don't think anyone has the full answer yet. If a 20 year old kid looks out at the world and sees that a perfectly healthy and athletic Broadway star has literally died from Covid, then all of the "weekly charts" in the world are not going to make that fear go away.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

g league just upped their salaries for the elite talent to somewhere near 500k which got a few of the top 20 kids to sign with them.

You're talking hoops, right?

It's a tough comparison, basketball to football, on so many levels. But the principle remains.

The world is changing. A lot of people with a lot of opinions are going to have to deal with that change, which will often be unsettling and unpleasant.

I don't have a much better answer than that, although I do hope the NCAA will try to change its rules to keep up with the times.

I love my alma mater, and I love my Hurricanes.

 

[JD08]

I can respect what you are saying. My quarrel is not with you at all.

But I would also point out that the ONLY REASON the "opt-out" exists is due to Covid.

Playing it up, or staying quiet...I don't know, I'm not sure it makes a huge difference.

You and I agree, all student-athletes will face health risks. And, yes, there is a possibility that Covid could permanently ruin someone's life. Maybe not a huge possibility, but it does exist.

And while a lot of us study a lot of medical literature these days, I don't think anyone has the full answer yet. If a 20 year old kid looks out at the world and sees that a perfectly healthy and athletic Broadway star has literally died from Covid, then all of the "weekly charts" in the world are not going to make that fear go away.

Agreed. I think it comes from the nature of public personas. People feel the need to justify decisions to the public where no justification is necessary.

 

[SouthernM]

"More than adequately taken care of"?

In what world?

You certainly skip over the fact that football players at state schools get a lot less "value" (since tuition is a lot cheaper).

And you ignore the issue of fundamental fairness, where a non-athlete student can get a part-time job, while a scholarship-athlete largely cannot do the same thing.

Not to mention the fact that the ONLY reason the "XFL salaries" have a 55K average is because the XFL is a LOT LESS POPULAR than NCAA football. So if you were to let the "free market" dictate salaries, college football players "should be" paid multiples of an XFL salary. I mean, if we are comparing apples to apples.

Fundamental fairness? They don't need a part-time job. Everything is taken care of. Absolutely 0 expenses. They also receive a 5,000 stipend.

 

[hoops156]

You're talking hoops, right?

It's a tough comparison, basketball to football, on so many levels. But the principle remains.

The world is changing. A lot of people with a lot of opinions are going to have to deal with that change, which will often be unsettling and unpleasant.

I don't have a much better answer than that, although I do hope the NCAA will try to change its rules to keep up with the times.

I love my alma mater, and I love my Hurricanes.

the principle of what the g league is what i was going after. yes i will support my alma mater and team as well. i dont blame greg or anyone. hes a lock. there are others that shouldnt have left but did due to other circumstances that we arent aware of (family, etc.). hopefully, NIL prevents that but a guy like Greg is never staying four years nor should he.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Fundamental fairness? They don't need a part-time job. Everything is taken care of. Absolutely 0 expenses. They also receive a 5,000 stipend.

You are a dope. You clearly haven't spent a minute with student-athletes, let along years of living with them, going to classes with them, being friends with them, and seeing how they lived, as I did.

Even the "regular" students at Miami have a budget that includes living expenses. I got overage checks every semester, but that doesn't mean it's enough. You think I took part-time jobs at Miami for fun?

No "everything" is not taken care of. Car. Car insurance. Gas/tolls. Just right there, one could spend then entire "5,000 stipend", before ever buying clothes or food or going on a weekend trip down to Key Largo for fun with your friends.

"Absolutely 0 expenses". What a load of crap. Oh, sure, if you want to wear UM adidas gear 24-7-365, there's "absolutely 0 clothing expense". Hey, what if a kid wants to go out to the Grove? Or church?

And you DEFINITELY didn't address my issue of students who have children.

The concept of "fundamental fairness" is not about whether everyone has an equal amount of money. It's about whether they have the same opportunities. If a student wants to work a part-time job and buy his family Christmas presents? Well, some can and some can't. That's an issue of unfairness of OPPORTUNITY, not unfairness of OUTCOME.

 

[BoxingRobes]

There was literally just a documentary series with a football player living in his car...

"Everything is taken care of..."

Can't wait for the "whale actually he was in JUCO"...as if the economics aren't just a microcosm of the entire industry.

 

[SouthernM]

You are a dope. You clearly haven't spent a minute with student-athletes, let along years of living with them, going to classes with them, being friends with them, and seeing how they lived, as I did.

Even the "regular" students at Miami have a budget that includes living expenses. I got overage checks every semester, but that doesn't mean it's enough. You think I took part-time jobs at Miami for fun?

No "everything" is not taken care of. Car. Car insurance. Gas/tolls. Just right there, one could spend then entire "5,000 stipend", before ever buying clothes or food or going on a weekend trip down to Key Largo for fun with your friends.

"Absolutely 0 expenses". What a load of crap. Oh, sure, if you want to wear UM adidas gear 24-7-365, there's "absolutely 0 clothing expense". Hey, what if a kid wants to go out to the Grove? Or church?

And you DEFINITELY didn't address my issue of students who have children.

The concept of "fundamental fairness" is not about whether everyone has an equal amount of money. It's about whether they have the same opportunities. If a student wants to work a part-time job and buy his family Christmas presents? Well, some can and some can't. That's an issue of unfairness of OPPORTUNITY, not unfairness of OUTCOME.

Read your post again and at no point did you mention children. But to address it, anyone who has a child has to make sacrifices. That's the nature of the game it sucks but it is what it is.

Not sure why you're bringing up "regular" students.

Yes, a car is a privilege. Plenty of college kids don't have cars.

Can buy an entire wardrobe for $500 as any other average college kid does.

You are right about the opportunity. They have an opportunity 99.9% of the population doesn't.

 

[SouthernM]

There was literally just a documentary series with a football player living in his car...

"Everything is taken care of..."

Can't wait for the "whale actually he was in JUCO"...as if the economics aren't just a microcosm of the entire industry.

Haven't seen it but I'll give it a watch. Feel free to summarize

 

[BoxingRobes]

And he's the only student to ever live in his car?

Nope.

And its because not "everything is taken care of..." and they don't "have no expenses".

 

[NC_Canes_11]

ipercetnages id have to see what pro athletes get or how the pros set it up and id do it based on individual sales. if GR 15 is selling 100000000000 15 jerseys w his name on it then he gets it just as lebron may get money from his own jersey sales. no to the trust thing bc theyre all over 18 and theres no guarantee theyll graduate.

the best way to do it really is to drop the charade that these are amateurs. pay them outright as employees and allow them to either use the money for an education or income. come up with a set standard pay for all football players (based off percentage revenue that sport brings to the school). yeah its unfair to the other athletes, but football players are the ones who go through car crashes daily to basically keep ADs afloat. so my model would honestly be, heres your salary, bonuses, etc. and you decide if you want to be a student or not. the NCAA is just the NFLs minor league system anyways and its time to treat it as such

The schools would never allow them to use their facilities and trademarks if they weren’t students. And title 9 would never allow only football players to get paid. It will bankrupt everybody.

Realistically, isn’t the only way this works is to give all athletes the option to take the scholarship or use their likeness to profit? Title 9 issues are avoided and it gives kids real incentive to perform. I think that’ll show the real value of education as well. If you see more kids opting for the scholarship it will show the old model was working, but if they don’t you’ll show it didn’t.

 

[4everlost]

Again, you clearly don’t understand the definition - even though some of the words are staring you in the face.

WOW! You really have a knack for stretching reality. The MAIN POINT IS THIS.....No football player has ever been forced to play at Miami. They accept the terms of the "athletic scholarship". Then, if the situation changes (like it has for Rousseau), they have the RIGHT to alter the agreement without payback of any kind. Diaz recognized his decision and thanked him for his prior service.

ONLY the fans, who are so **** bent on winning at all costs, blow this argument up beyond what it is. and it is this....the current rules are the rules. The athlete accepts and offer, fulfills as much as he /she can or desires, then moves on. The only one who feels butt hurt is the fan who is demoralized by his/her decision to leave and then decides to blame the system. The system is what it currently is. Learn to accept it without tears.

At any rate, I'm bored with this topic so you may as well not bother to reply.

 

[SouthernM]

Nope.

And its because not "everything is taken care of..." and they don't "have no expenses".

Why are you bringing up JUCO?

 

[BoxingRobes]

Why are you bringing up JUCO?

Do you think it matters what level we are talking about? Its a microcosm of the football industry at the college level. If you don't think so, idk what to tell you. It is. Not everything is taken care of at any level. There are plenty of expenses at every level. And football student-athletes are dramatically under compensated and are restricted from receiving compensation at the highest revenue generating levels.

 

[SouthernM]

Do you think it matters what level we are talking about? Its a microcosm of the football industry at the college level. If you don't think so, idk what to tell you. It is. Not everything is taken care of at any level. There are plenty of expenses at every level. And football student-athletes are dramatically under compensated and are restricted from receiving compensation at the highest revenue generating levels.

Yes, the facts matter. I don't know much about JUCO so not going to discuss it.
How are student-athletes restricted from "receiving compensation at the highest revenue-generating levels"?