Agents

[hoops156]

Frm, Rosenhaus etc. They’ve all been on him.

not a shock. every scout has him in the top 10 right now even after the opt out. theyre not stupid. hes a first rounder. this isnt like an agent trying to sway a practice squad kid over. if i were him, i wouldve signed with the athletes first group just based off reputation but theres no doubting that rosenhaus is good at his job

 

[NC_Canes_11]

the NIL will surely help. since its still being written/discussed, id hope they let every athlete enter any deal they chose (whether its to be a part of the EA Sports franchise) or allowing to sell their jerseys w the names on the back (tbh, we all have an 11 canes jersey for one dude only). i hope it provides the incentive for kids who arent locks to not look for the first ticket out when they could benefit from another year. a kid like greg is going in the first and off boards RIGHT NOW after his decision to opt out, hes still top 5-6 overall in the coming draft so hes the exception. kids like him are always gone after three years. im more speaking towards the dudes weve seen leave early when it wasnt advisable too. NIL and income in college will help kids stay and still provide support for their families (bandy comes to mind)

I’ve never been a fan of paying kids bc it opens up a can of worms with Title 9 that I don’t think can ever truly work, but Jersey sales are one thing I’ve always thought kids should be able to profit from. But how is that money gonna be allocated? What percentage do you think kids should get? Do they receive that money every month or should it be put in a trust for them to receive after graduation?

 

[BoxingRobes]

Why do the players in college need to make a living wage? It's not a job. They're playing football (or other sports) and getting an education, with housing, meals, training, medical, etc. AND, they have the exposure to the NFL that they would never have gotten otherwise. The REAL solution is for the NFL to create a minor league and for the NCAA to amend it's rules to allow players to be drafted right out of high school. Then those who have the talent can go straight to the league and those, who value an education, can do their thing as well.

If you don't think what college student-athletes do is a job that far exceeds the total sum of the education they receive, idk what to tell you.

The NFL has no incentive to alleviate this problem, so I don't know why that is the only solution. either. The NCAA gets all of the benefits of being a minor league feeder system as its a billion dollar industry itself. Football legitimately props up many (...most?) institutions of higher learning as a self-sustaining business on the backs of this coercive labor system they got going on.

 

[hoops156]

I’ve never been a fan of paying kids bc it opens up a can of worms with Title 9 that I don’t think can ever truly work, but Jersey sales are one thing I’ve always thought kids should be able to profit from. But how is that money gonna be allocated? What percentage do you think kids should get? Do they receive that money every month or should it be put in a trust for them to receive after graduation?

ipercetnages id have to see what pro athletes get or how the pros set it up and id do it based on individual sales. if GR 15 is selling 100000000000 15 jerseys w his name on it then he gets it just as lebron may get money from his own jersey sales. no to the trust thing bc theyre all over 18 and theres no guarantee theyll graduate.

the best way to do it really is to drop the charade that these are amateurs. pay them outright as employees and allow them to either use the money for an education or income. come up with a set standard pay for all football players (based off percentage revenue that sport brings to the school). yeah its unfair to the other athletes, but football players are the ones who go through car crashes daily to basically keep ADs afloat. so my model would honestly be, heres your salary, bonuses, etc. and you decide if you want to be a student or not. the NCAA is just the NFLs minor league system anyways and its time to treat it as such

 

[TheOriginalCane]

and you dont like seeing talented kids earn money?

I love seeing talented kids earning money, especially if Miami kids earn more money than Gaytor kids.

But there is NO REASON for agents to spend time with kids prior to them turning pro EXCEPT for selfish reasons that only benefit the agents.

Drew Rosenhaus is not counselling these kids on NIL, or how to avoid committing NCAA violations, or what dormitory to choose.

Ban them all, even the alums, including their runners. UM can hold a "meet the agents day" for eligible juniors and seniors over at the Biltmore every January, and that should be enough.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Is it surprising that there aren't tons of practice squad seniors opting out? If Covid is this deadly disease with lasting permanent damage, why aren't the players who will never be professional opting out? They have just as much to lose by getting it, right?

No.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Frm, Rosenhaus etc. They’ve all been on him.

More likely, the runners.

Does Pete Ariz have his agent's license? Or is he a runner too?

 

[JD08]

No.

But it's all about their health and the lasting effects of Covid, isn't it?

 

[4everlost]

If you don't think what college student-athletes do is a job that far exceeds the total sum of the education they receive, idk what to tell you.

The NFL has no incentive to alleviate this problem, so I don't know why that is the only solution. either. The NCAA gets all of the benefits of being a minor league feeder system as its a billion dollar industry itself. Football legitimately props up many (...most?) institutions of higher learning as a self-sustaining business on the backs of this coercive labor system they got going on.

Like anything else. No one is being forced to accept an athletic scholarship. You are right, though, the NCAA runs a monopoly on college athletics. IF all that is important is PAY then I say drop the guise of amateur athletics, pay the players and house and feed them but DO NOT require they be STUDENT athletes. Let colleges have PAID athletics (which would never fly).

College athletics have been destroyed by greed and the almighty dollar....like most crap in America. However, until major changes are made college football players will continue to be non PAID athletes...as opposed to PAID employees.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Why do the players in college need to make a living wage? It's not a job. They're playing football (or other sports) and getting an education, with housing, meals, training, medical, etc. AND, they have the exposure to the NFL that they would never have gotten otherwise. The REAL solution is for the NFL to create a minor league and for the NCAA to amend it's rules to allow players to be drafted right out of high school. Then those who have the talent can go straight to the league and those, who value an education, can do their thing as well.

Let's just be clear about something very important.

Yes, student-athletes get a lot of in-kind benefits. Tuition, housing, meals, books, medical coverage (completely valid in this situation).

However, I got those same things at UM, via scholarships and financial aid. The difference was, I could also go out and get a part-time job. I worked during the summers. I worked during the semesters, usually in very high-paid part-time hourly jobs (for that time period). During the semesters, I worked for $15 to $25 an hour (in the 80s-90s), which went a long way to me being able to buy clothes, go out to restaurants/bars, and to drive around the beautiful SoFla area and see amazing things from Stuart to Key West.

But athletes are largely prevented from having outside jobs, due MOSTLY to their schedules, as well as the practical aspects of physical therapy and recovery during practice times and the regular season. There aren't a lot of part-time jobs that will just take a student-athlete for the 1 or 2 months in between spring practice and summer practice.

Also, and I've spoken about this on other threads before, several of these players have kids to support. I would like to see the NCAA pass rules that would allow the university to cover some basic things for the kids of student-athletes (and regular students) that would allow them to get health insurance for their kids, to allow their kids to have meals, and even to allow the kids to live with them (might need to rebuild the "married student dorms" that UM had until the 1980s).

So, let's change the dialogue from "living wage" (or even scarier to right-wingers, "universal basic income") and let's try to find ways to allow the NCAA and universities to do right by these players (and their kids) who make sacrifices that other students don't have to make (i.e., the inability to get part-time jobs to make extra money).

 

[BoxingRobes]

Like anything else. No one is being forced to accept an athletic scholarship. You are right, though, the NCAA runs a monopoly on college athletics. IF all that is important is PAY then I say drop the guise of amateur athletics, pay the players and house and feed them but DO NOT require they be STUDENT athletes. Let colleges have PAID athletics (which would never fly).

College athletics have been destroyed by greed and the almighty dollar....like most crap in America. However, until major changes are made college football players will continue to be non PAID athletes...as opposed to PAID employees.

I didn't say it was forced labor or slavery...I said it was coercive labor...which it is.

This is much less of a problem in other sports, as there are actual options for those athletes to pursue their career path. Football - the highest revenue generating sport - does not. College football is the only avenue for these men and they are exploited because of it.

 

[SouthernM]

If you don't think what college student-athletes do is a job that far exceeds the total sum of the education they receive, idk what to tell you.

The NFL has no incentive to alleviate this problem, so I don't know why that is the only solution. either. The NCAA gets all of the benefits of being a minor league feeder system as its a billion dollar industry itself. Football legitimately props up many (...most?) institutions of higher learning as a self-sustaining business on the backs of this coercive labor system they got going on.

They are more than adequately taken care of.
Look at the XFL salaries for example which is the closest comp to a "feeder" league you're proposing. 55k average.

Students at UM are receiving 80K+ a year value. That's close to a 115K pre-tax.

 

[BoxingRobes]

They are more than adequately taken care of.

Absolutely not. Don't be silly.

 

[hoops156]

They are more than adequately taken care of.
Look at the XFL salaries for example which is the closest comp to a "feeder" league you're proposing. 55k average.

Students at UM are receiving 80K+ a year value. That's close to a 115K pre-tax.

theyre receiving 80k+ in inflated tuition and such that necessarily doesnt help them take care of their families who may be struggling. its not actual dollars in pockets.

 

[4everlost]

I didn't say it was forced labor or slavery...I said it was coercive labor...which it is.

This is much less of a problem in other sports, as there are actual options for those athletes to pursue their career path. Football - the highest revenue generating sport - does not. College football is the only avenue for these men and they are exploited because of it.

It's not coercive labor because no football player has to accept the offer of a scholarship.....These kids are getting into the situation knowing full well how it works. It becomes complicated when outside influences (family, agents, etc) insert themselves into the equation. Unfortunately, in this crazy world, the only way for top notch high school athlete's to continue on towards the pros is via college. The NCAA could offer football players the option of entering the NFL draft right out of high school. But then what NFL team would jump on that without having a minor league to assess how a player is progressing towards the big leagues?

It's a conundrum. Maybe the solution is for all colleges to enact the Ivy League model.....little to no athletic scholarships.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

It's not coercive labor because no football player has to accept the offer of a scholarship.....These kids are getting into the situation knowing full well how it works. It becomes complicated when outside influences (family, agents, etc) insert themselves into the equation. Unfortunately, in this crazy world, the only way for top notch high school athlete's to continue on towards the pros is via college. The NCAA could offer football players the option of entering the NFL draft right out of high school. But then what NFL team would jump on that without having a minor league to assess how a player is progressing towards the big leagues?

It's a conundrum. Maybe the solution is for all colleges to enact the Ivy League model.....little to no athletic scholarships.

You clearly don’t understand what coercive means.

 

[SouthernM]

theyre receiving 80k+ in inflated tuition and such that necessarily doesnt help them take care of their families who may be struggling. its not actual dollars in pockets.

This isn't exclusive to athletes. Any premiere profession requires a body of work and commitment to learning your craft before getting paid. From doctors to engineers to lawyers, most have to go heavily in debt and put 4-8 years in before they see their first paycheck. Then have decades of debt payments they have to make.
What about their families who may be struggling?

These student-athletes are getting a **** of a deal.

Especially now that they can profit off their own likeness, which was f*cked up that they couldn't before.

 

[4everlost]

theyre receiving 80k+ in inflated tuition and such that necessarily doesnt help them take care of their families who may be struggling. its not actual dollars in pockets.

If they have families to care for that are suffering maybe they should be working somewhere rather than playing a sport. Charity begins at home!

 

[TheOriginalCane]

But it's all about their health and the lasting effects of Covid, isn't it?

It goes beyond that.

For G.R., it is also about the POSSIBILITY (and the MAGA crowd can debate the percentage of that possibility) that the ability to convert your preparation into a job in 8 months could be permanently impaired. And let's skip the whole "but he can get insurance" nonsense.

I am not arguing for or against Greg's decision. I am saying it is a decision that I can respect.

Let me just give you an example.

UM has a Chemistry Department. You can major in Chemistry. You could have a full-tuition scholarship to Miami as a Chemistry major.

Now, there are risks. You could conceivably spill chemicals that burn your fingers off. We can debate that likelihood, but let's not pretend it's not a possibility. ****, when I took Chemistry at UM (when I was an Engineering major before I switched to the B-School), there were a lot of precautions and protocols just for my Intro to Chem class (well, the lab portion, as the class was in a big lecture hall).

Let's move ahead. If I was in my final year of Chemistry, and I had a six-figure job offer lined up after graduation, and it was very likely that my abilities would allow me to file patents after graduation (since any work you produce while a student belongs to the university)...and then one of my professors approaches me about a very risky experiment that he wants to do, one in which I would be in danger of burning off my fingers and losing the entire career for which I had prepared (regardless of whether an insurance company would pay me money for losing my 10 fingers)...

Again, it's an imperfect comparison. But it's at least one where we could see some parallels.

YOU mentioned "seniors on the practice squad" opting out. I merely answered "No". Meaning, no, those players do not have the same "NFL career" risk that Greg does. I am not judging that or trying to draw a bright line between "right" and "wrong". I am simply acknowledging that those "seniors on the practice squad" have a DIFFERENT financial risk, even if they have the same health risk.

That is all. No need to make my original "No" answer any bigger or smaller than it was intended to be.

You and I both know, there are many people (not everyone, but many people) who are letting their political feelings bleed into this. A month ago, everyone on the board LOVED Greg. Now there are a bunch of people (and you can be honest, it is disproportionately political, even if there are some liberals who are also mad that Greg opted out) who are trying to create monolithic "one answer only" responses to a complex decision.

"I hope Greg is going to stay inside for the next 8 months and not see anyone and not touch anything."

"I hope Greg drops to the 7th round to punish him for being so selfish."

"Greg stabbed his teammates in the back, he is a horrible human being, he is a coward, he is self-centered, he is not loyal, I hope UM pulls his scholarship, sends him a bill for his books, disassociates him from UM, pulls his UM alum status, and gets a court injunction preventing him from ever wearing orange and/or green again."

But there's a recap of a very vocal portion of the responses thus far.

You and I may not always agree on everything. I get it. But you can go back to January, I have been asking for better, wider-spread, and faster Covid-19 testing. I realize that I "vote Democrat" more often than not, but I've been calling for better leadership from the outset, so that we would never reach this point. But it didn't happen, and now a lot of people are having to make a lot of complex and painful decisions.

8 months into this disaster, I'm not going to judge Greg harshly. I was so excited to see him play this year. But it's not happening, and I can certainly understand why his decision is different from those of "seniors on the practice squad".

That's all.

 

[4everlost]

You clearly don’t understand what coercive means.

verb (used with object), co·erced, co·erc·ing.​

to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, especially without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document.
to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience.
to dominate or control, especially by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual.

Clearly....no one is being coerced to accept an athletic scholarship. How, exactly, are players being coerced? Who is forcing any HS football player to go to a college and pay NOTHING in return for playing a sport? They always have the right to say NO!