Pro Wrestling AEW MEGA THREAD

[BoxingRobes]

I agree. This was almost the last available window to do this. WWE has a roadmap in mind where they plan on recreating a NWA world wide territory system in Japan, Europe, South America, India, and China. Ten years from now there likely wouldn’t be any unsigned talent for a new startup to use.

To be fair, NXT UK isn't going over so well. Their ability to get into the Japanese market has been **** near impossible. Mexico, too...they just can't get a footing there.

 

[Rellyrell]

Double or Nothing drew twice the number of fans than ECW's largest gate. It was their first branded event. FWIW - All In also outdrew ECWs largest gate by twice the figure.

WWE operates at like 90% market share, but its a market that has deflated dramatically since the Attitude Era. There are lapsed fans to be had. But, its not necessarily about competing with WWE for whats left of the WWE audience (~2.5M people you'd presume considering thats a safe RAW number)...its about providing an alternative for that ~2.5M while offering something for the potential of double that from perhaps lapsed fans with a hot product?

AEW's influence could come from beyond "competition"...a more sports oriented product Cody claims to offer as well as potential to be beyond a "house style" where the added emphasis on bell-to-bell could make its way to main roster WWE.

Not a really a fair comparison though, bro. ECW was more Indie, than mainstream. AEW is mainstream.

It didn’t have a big budget to begin w, and the concept of hardcore was more underground v mainstream. Only the purist recall watching ECW on some random, foreign channel that came on after dark, or knowing it as Eastern Championship Wrestling prior to ECW. By the time it got some notoriety, it was on its last legs and by, I believe it was 01 or 02, WWE had taken over and it was a shell of its former self. Chhhhiiit, ECW was lowkey like fight club. I wish I would’ve got a chance to see a real ECW event live. Now, it’s just folklore, but it still has an effect today as the fans were chanting “AEW” (stemming from ECW) and fans chanting “holy chit” when a crazy move takes place or someone goes through the tables.

But honestly, there would be no ECW w/o the likes of Cactus Jack, Abdullah The Butcher, Terry Funk, Bruiser Brody, etc who introduced a real violence to scripted wrestling and carried storylines that really happened backstage. They had a great underground run for like 7 yrs.

 

[Cribby]

Not a really a fair comparison though, bro. ECW was more Indie, than mainstream. AEW is mainstream.

It didn’t have a big budget to begin w, and the concept of hardcore was more underground v mainstream. Only the purist recall watching ECW on some random, foreign channel that came on after dark, or knowing it as Eastern Championship Wrestling prior to ECW. By the time it got some notoriety, it was on its last legs and by, I believe it was 01 or 02, WWE had taken over and it was a shell of its former self. Chhhhiiit, ECW was lowkey like fight club. I wish I would’ve got a chance to see a real ECW event live. Now, it’s just folklore, but it still has an effect today as the fans were chanting “AEW” (stemming from ECW) and fans chanting “holy chit” when a crazy move takes place or someone goes through the tables.

But honestly, there would be no ECW w/o the likes of Cactus Jack, Abdullah The Butcher, Terry Funk, Bruiser Brody, etc who introduced a real violence to scripted wrestling and carried storylines that really happened backstage. They had a great underground run for like 7 yrs.

Yep, ecw was on local tv and had cult following In the northeast for a good part of their glory days. The only thing that kept them in business was Paul E didn’t pay anyone but Taz lol. That dude is a pure genius , starting a great / niche product , with great talent while living in his parents house in his 30’s.

But that being said , dude is the biggest sleaze ball ever. He literally owes everyone in the wrestling business. It’s like a joke now , “ yep , Paul E still owes me 50, 75, 100, 200 grand “.

 

[Cribby]

Not a really a fair comparison though, bro. ECW was more Indie, than mainstream. AEW is mainstream.

It didn’t have a big budget to begin w, and the concept of hardcore was more underground v mainstream. Only the purist recall watching ECW on some random, foreign channel that came on after dark, or knowing it as Eastern Championship Wrestling prior to ECW. By the time it got some notoriety, it was on its last legs and by, I believe it was 01 or 02, WWE had taken over and it was a shell of its former self. Chhhhiiit, ECW was lowkey like fight club. I wish I would’ve got a chance to see a real ECW event live. Now, it’s just folklore, but it still has an effect today as the fans were chanting “AEW” (stemming from ECW) and fans chanting “holy chit” when a crazy move takes place or someone goes through the tables.

But honestly, there would be no ECW w/o the likes of Cactus Jack, Abdullah The Butcher, Terry Funk, Bruiser Brody, etc who introduced a real violence to scripted wrestling and carried storylines that really happened backstage. They had a great underground run for like 7 yrs.

Paul is a legendary politician , he had all his guys working for **** near nothing ( or nothing ) , motivating them by telling them” that nobody wanted them, they’re the underdog , f wwe , f wcw , etc. While Vince was paying the bills , keeping the sinking ship going.

Dude is a real class act lol.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Not a really a fair comparison though, bro. ECW was more Indie, than mainstream. AEW is mainstream.

It didn’t have a big budget to begin w, and the concept of hardcore was more underground v mainstream. Only the purist recall watching ECW on some random, foreign channel that came on after dark, or knowing it as Eastern Championship Wrestling prior to ECW. By the time it got some notoriety, it was on its last legs and by, I believe it was 01 or 02, WWE had taken over and it was a shell of its former self. Chhhhiiit, ECW was lowkey like fight club. I wish I would’ve got a chance to see a real ECW event live. Now, it’s just folklore, but it still has an effect today as the fans were chanting “AEW” (stemming from ECW) and fans chanting “holy chit” when a crazy move takes place or someone goes through the tables.

But honestly, there would be no ECW w/o the likes of Cactus Jack, Abdullah The Butcher, Terry Funk, Bruiser Brody, etc who introduced a real violence to scripted wrestling and carried storylines that really happened backstage. They had a great underground run for like 7 yrs.

Its not. And that was in reference to D$ talking about ECW's influence. They were influential...not so much a success. Heyman never made money and ultimately went bankrupt trying to compete. However, it is notable, that the number of wrestling fans in 1999 was more than double what it now. By comparison, ECWs success at the gate was on par with some of the better Northeast Indies today at a Mania Weekend. Perhaps a notch above during their hottest period.

 

[Canedude08]

Not a really a fair comparison though, bro. ECW was more Indie, than mainstream. AEW is mainstream.

It didn’t have a big budget to begin w, and the concept of hardcore was more underground v mainstream. Only the purist recall watching ECW on some random, foreign channel that came on after dark, or knowing it as Eastern Championship Wrestling prior to ECW. By the time it got some notoriety, it was on its last legs and by, I believe it was 01 or 02, WWE had taken over and it was a shell of its former self. Chhhhiiit, ECW was lowkey like fight club. I wish I would’ve got a chance to see a real ECW event live. Now, it’s just folklore, but it still has an effect today as the fans were chanting “AEW” (stemming from ECW) and fans chanting “holy chit” when a crazy move takes place or someone goes through the tables.

But honestly, there would be no ECW w/o the likes of Cactus Jack, Abdullah The Butcher, Terry Funk, Bruiser Brody, etc who introduced a real violence to scripted wrestling and carried storylines that really happened backstage. They had a great underground run for like 7 yrs.

Fundamental difference between Cactus, Terry and Bruiser compared to ECW: PSYCHOLOGY. Go watch most of the ECW stuff, you would have great wrestlers like Benoit and Guerrero, then two slobs throwing themselves through tables. People overrate ECW, it was a mediocre product, that was saved by some great talent that went on to bigger and better things.

 

[Cribby]

Fundamental difference between Cactus, Terry and Bruiser compared to ECW: PSYCHOLOGY. Go watch most of the ECW stuff, you would have great wrestlers like Benoit and Guerrero, then two slobs throwing themselves through tables. People overrate ECW, it was a mediocre product, that was saved by some great talent that went on to bigger and better things.

I was never into it , there was some good workers like Shane D, Jericho , candino,cactus , Rvd, Benoit , Eddie that passed through but for the most part it was shock tv. Lots of violence , stapling dudes heads , dropping them through tables , violence to chicks and kendo sticks to nauseam. Oh....and tna.

It was just something new and different.

 

[252cane]

Fundamental difference between Cactus, Terry and Bruiser compared to ECW: PSYCHOLOGY. Go watch most of the ECW stuff, you would have great wrestlers like Benoit and Guerrero, then two slobs throwing themselves through tables. People overrate ECW, it was a mediocre product, that was saved by some great talent that went on to bigger and better things.

Yea shawn michaels said that about rvd back in the day. Rvd was blowing up in ecw and shawn said he was very talented but needed to slow down and basically learn how to work a match.

And jim ross recently said that about the aew guys. He said they are going to have to slow down and learn how to sell.

 

[GojiraCane]

Its not. And that was in reference to D$ talking about ECW's influence. They were influential...not so much a success. Heyman never made money and ultimately went bankrupt trying to compete. However, it is notable, that the number of wrestling fans in 1999 was more than double what it now. By comparison, ECWs success at the gate was on par with some of the better Northeast Indies today at a Mania Weekend. Perhaps a notch above during their hottest period.

Here's the problem with ECW. To establish a new promotion, you have to be willing to take a loss. Yes, Eastern Championship Wrestling existed in 1993 out of the ashes of Joel Goodhart's Tri-State promotion, but it was very limited in scale. After Gilbert left ECW, Heyman took over the booking and began using it as a testbed for concepts that he wanted to employ in the World Wrestling Network promotion in late 1993. That never got beyond an unaired TV pilot (recorded in HD!), but he found that his ideas in the meantime were being well received by the Eastern Championship Wrestling audience. The promotion began to grow, and grow fairly quickly. However Heyman never an outside investor (apart from Tod Gordon and his parents) to bankroll any expansion to the territory. In that, the wrestlers became the investors (wittingly or not). ECW incurred debt the more it expanded, and never was able to get out of that hole.

It's not that the territory was not profitable. Their biggest attendance came in 2000, when they drew over 5,000 fans for a PPV. They arguably could have drawn considerably more, but there was great financial outlay involved in booking a basketball-sized arena. The PPVs also put them in a hole. Not that they weren't profitable, but consider this. From what I recall, the outlay for doing the Barely Legal PPV was something akin to $1M. They certainly did not make that up in the gate, as it was held at the ECW Arena which could only hold 1,000 fans. The PPV had a decent buyrate, but revenue from the PPV purchases took months to hit the company coffers. In the meantime, they had to do the next outlay for the next PPV, and again wait for months afterwards to gain the revenue for that show (held in the small War Memorial Coliseum in Ft Lauderdale - I was there). They could just not get ahead.

Heyman really needed a really rich investor like a Rick Rubin, Tony Khan, or Robert W Carter to put enough money into the promotion so that they could expand properly, book the larger venues that they could have filled relatively easily, and get over that initial PPV hurdle.

 

[GojiraCane]

To be fair, NXT UK isn't going over so well. Their ability to get into the Japanese market has been **** near impossible. Mexico, too...they just can't get a footing there.

That's where the TV rights money is going to come into play. If WWE offered Bushiroad $250M for New Japan Pro Wrestling, I could easily see them taking it.

As for NXT UK - it doesn't have to go well. It doesn't have to turn a profit - NXT US isn't profitable by all accounts either. It just needs to do what it's designed to do, and act as a funnel for all worthwhile UK wrestlers and to lock out any local promotions.

 

[DMoney]

I wish I would’ve got a chance to see a real ECW event live. Now, it’s just folklore, but it still has an effect today as the fans were chanting “AEW” (stemming from ECW) and fans chanting “holy chit” when a crazy move takes place or someone goes through the tables.

I used to go to their shows at the War Memorial in Fort Lauderdale. It was mind-blowing, especially as a junior high kid. The valets looked like strippers, the entrance songs were real songs by AC/DC and Metallica, and the Dudleys started borderline riots. Insane heat. New Jack would carry around a trash can filled with plunder while Natural Born Killaz played throughout the match. There was nothing else like it.

As you noted, the crowd chants you hear today trace back to ECW. “Show your t1ts” and “you f*cked up.” It changed the way crowds reacted to the product.

Without ECW, you don’t have the Attitude Era, the WCW cruiserweight division or even Stone Cold Steve Austin (his shoot promo at ECW set the template for his career). The talent that passed through there was unreal and a lot of those guys ended up stars.

If AEW is 1/4th as influential as ECW, it will make a huge impact.

 

[DMoney]

Fundamental difference between Cactus, Terry and Bruiser compared to ECW: PSYCHOLOGY. Go watch most of the ECW stuff, you would have great wrestlers like Benoit and Guerrero, then two slobs throwing themselves through tables. People overrate ECW, it was a mediocre product, that was saved by some great talent that went on to bigger and better things.

Cactus and Terry were in ECW, though. You also had Rey and Juventud and basically the entire WCW cruiserweight division pass through there. The way the smark crowd reacted to guys like Eddie Guerrero showed that fans appreciated pure workrate. I look at Wrestlemania XX as the culmination of a process that began in ECW. There were a ton of great wrestlers there.

I get what you are saying but the product was more than individual matches. It was the effect of the whole show, from the music to the crowd interaction to the shoot elements of the promos. By far the best in-person experiences I’ve ever had as a wrestling fan. ECW really changed everything.

 

[Rellyrell]

I used to go to their shows at the War Memorial in Fort Lauderdale. It was mind-blowing, especially as a junior high kid. The valets looked like strippers, the entrance songs were real songs by AC/DC and Metallica, and the Dudleys started borderline riots. Insane heat. New Jack would carry around a trash can filled with plunder while Natural Born Killaz played throughout the match. There was nothing else like it.

As you noted, the crowd chants you hear today trace back to ECW. “Show your t1ts” and “you f*cked up.” It changed the way crowds reacted to the product.

Without ECW, you don’t have the Attitude Era, the WCW cruiserweight division or even Stone Cold Steve Austin (his shoot promo at ECW set the template for his career). The talent that passed through there was unreal and a lot of those guys ended up stars.

If AEW is 1/4th as influential as ECW, it will make a huge impact.

Preach D. Man that’s my only regret as a wrestling fan, and probably b/c I was too young to attend. lol. By the time I was old enough, it lost its flair. It was more TV 14 than TV MA. I’ve been to live WWF, WCW, and TNA events, but man I wish I would’ve had the chance to go to ECW.

I liked the AEW promo, but they do have to be able to sell it more. Like u said, if they can have even 1/4 of the influence of ECW, they’ll be a real problem.

 

[J_E_F_F]

As a former fan, I get the biggest sense of nostalgia from good wrestling, been craving it for years. It feels like since Wrestlemania XX the company just stopped caring. I hope this electrified the business and makes Vince realize his Sesame street charade geared towards kids is garbage. Pro wrestling/sports entertainment should be honed in on 20-35 year olds. Sorry kids, go watch baby shark.

 

[Hurracanes]

So AEW is going to eventually air on TNT for a 2 hour live show? Holy ****! This is really happening.

It has begun..

 

[Wildnation]

My kind of wrastlin

 

[Cribby]

Here's the problem with ECW. To establish a new promotion, you have to be willing to take a loss. Yes, Eastern Championship Wrestling existed in 1993 out of the ashes of Joel Goodhart's Tri-State promotion, but it was very limited in scale. After Gilbert left ECW, Heyman took over the booking and began using it as a testbed for concepts that he wanted to employ in the World Wrestling Network promotion in late 1993. That never got beyond an unaired TV pilot (recorded in HD!), but he found that his ideas in the meantime were being well received by the Eastern Championship Wrestling audience. The promotion began to grow, and grow fairly quickly. However Heyman never an outside investor (apart from Tod Gordon and his parents) to bankroll any expansion to the territory. In that, the wrestlers became the investors (wittingly or not). ECW incurred debt the more it expanded, and never was able to get out of that hole.

It's not that the territory was not profitable. Their biggest attendance came in 2000, when they drew over 5,000 fans for a PPV. They arguably could have drawn considerably more, but there was great financial outlay involved in booking a basketball-sized arena. The PPVs also put them in a hole. Not that they weren't profitable, but consider this. From what I recall, the outlay for doing the Barely Legal PPV was something akin to $1M. They certainly did not make that up in the gate, as it was held at the ECW Arena which could only hold 1,000 fans. The PPV had a decent buyrate, but revenue from the PPV purchases took months to hit the company coffers. In the meantime, they had to do the next outlay for the next PPV, and again wait for months afterwards to gain the revenue for that show (held in the small War Memorial Coliseum in Ft Lauderdale - I was there). They could just not get ahead.

Heyman really needed a really rich investor like a Rick Rubin, Tony Khan, or Robert W Carter to put enough money into the promotion so that they could expand properly, book the larger venues that they could have filled relatively easily, and get over that initial PPV hurdle.

I’ve always heard if you want to turn 5 million into 1 million buy a wrestling promotion.

I’ve heard a lot of old timers say this through the years.

 

[TerragonSix]

Overall, I liked it. There is talk about them targeting the 18 - 45 audience; which makes perfect sense.

Imo, Dean Ambrose is the second coming of Terry Funk. Before Terry got into hardcore to extend his carrer, he was an outstanding singles talent with a great promo.

When I loved pro wrestling, I was a big fan of Southern style wrasslin'. It doesn't have to be this flippy ballerina stuff; it needs to feel logical, violent, and real.

The WWE mistakes real for reality TV. Not the same, not even close. I don't watch it.

Frankly, an adult alternative to WWE would be a relief. It doesn't have to be over the top raunch - Mae Young having a hand, women having abortions.

But if it plays with an edge and takes itself seriously, I'm in.

If I were the booker, I would see if I could land CM Punk. An unrestrained, full-blown CM Punk sticking it in WWE's face would put eyes on the product.

 

[Bipolarcane]

Social justice warrior wrestling, perfect for this generation of sisses and beta males.

 

[AATU99]

Let me know when this guy is the champ and I'll start watching.