A Plea for Rationality

[UMFarArcher]

You must have just started following this team this season because you mention the Louisville game 100 times in your post.

The Louisville game was the icing on the ****ing cake.

I've been a moderator on the other board you post on for longer than you've been posting on that site. So, no I did not just begin following UM football.

Also, I said in my first post that I thought this defense underperformed somewhat relative to their talent. I don't disagree that Coach D has made me scratch my head more than once. I'm willing to give the guy this year before I roast him, but I can understand why people want him gone.

Yeah, I've been following UM football a while. I remember clearly when Schnelly was hired, and the frustrations in the early days. So when I see siht like I've been seeing the past several years - INCLUDING this asshat's performance, I already know this guy and his defense isn't getting us anywhere near where we want to be.

To say our defense 'underperformed somewhat' is being most generous. "Somewhat" is the same, identical crappy, shocking lack of defense, including scheme, and lack of adjustments that we saw in Golden's first game against Maryland. Identical, same, crappy defense. Not personnel, because the personnel were different. Same crappy coaching and scheme - or lack of it, and same inability to make the most fundamental adjustments that are made even at the Pop Warner level.

You're going to give him a year? It's my burden in life to be ahead of others, so I was basically where you are when he was hired. I'm way, way down the road from there.

Golden needs to roll up his carpet, grab his buddy, and hit the road.

 

[OldhamA]

I actually really like Golden as a Head Coach/CEO.

I don't mind Coley as the OC - he's not great, but he's young and he's a stud recruiter.

I have no idea what Dorito brings to the table, I really don't. Golden needs to wise up and bring in someone who is going to run an aggressive 4-3 D.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Good talent yes but not alot of difference makers cuz most leave us 2 dry n its y we r wea we r, its so fkin easy 2 see this. Follow recruiting as a whole n ull figure it out.

 

[weownfsu]

I actually really like Golden as a Head Coach/CEO.

I don't mind Coley as the OC - he's not great, but he's young and he's a stud recruiter.

I have no idea what Dorito brings to the table, I really don't. Golden needs to wise up and bring in someone who is going to run an aggressive 4-3 D.

I don't get posts like this at all. You like Golden as a CEO, except he keeps around the CFO who can't do anything right and the COO who you don't "mind?"

 

[CaneAlmighty]

OP good luck.. You talking to the same group of fans that wanted to run Butch out of town, were cursing him when he left and now want him back, at age 62 no less.
They're as emotionally stable as 14 year old girls.

 

[TheU1984]

So in other words....

No talent? Poor Al, right OP?

That's a sick *** pic!! What team is that and
how old?

That's Al Golden's Canes in their new unis.

 

[RiDLer80]

Umfire... It was a nice try but you can't reason with mutants. 3/4ths of the responses to you have ZERO substance. It's this boards theme nowadays. Just post pictures and "neg" people.

These guys don't care that we graduated 7 defensive starters and not 1 of them is going to sniff the draft.

They don't care that Duke Johnson, a top 5 talent nationally went down in game 7.

They just want to ***** and moan in a circle jerk together.

Back to shadows board where at least those who are against the staff can articulate real reasons why they are so.

I've articulated my displeasure with our current staff plenty of times. Particularly with several charts and graphs. I'm a numbers guy.

I've compared our defensive rankings to teams that play against teams with unquestionably more talent than they have (Ole Miss, Maryland,Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Miss. St.), teams with offenses that execute far worse than ours (Va Tech, Florida, South Florida), teams with actual sanctions (USC, Penn State) and offenses that have worse TOP than us (Oregon & Baylor). Guess what? These teams not only had better defenses than us, they were also top 50 at worst!

I've compared Golden's defensive history as a DC and HC. Charted his team defense rankings as well as scoring defense rankings. Guess what? He's barely average! Average total defense ranking of 68 and average scoring defense rank of 47. Should that give us hope?

I charted this seasons game's against FBS opponents: what their total offense ranking was, their average ypg and what they did against us. Guess what? We only held two teams below their season average for total yards. One of those teams, FSU, still gained over 500 yards and the other, Georgia Tech, gained over 400 yards. We only held two of our FBS opponents below 400 total yards. That's ******* pathetic.

In case you're wondering, the top 60 defenses allowed less than 400 ypg and we couldn't even do that.

Don't act like those of us who've lost faith in Golden and this staff don't bring intelligent discussion to this board. Because when we do bring numbers into the equation to back our displeasure those who still have faith point to the 1 or 2 seasons in the man's entire career where his defense wasn't mediocre to complete trash.

 

[MetiSkeemz]

I just...

Everyone is aware that the year is not 2003 right? We have been a 2nd tier program for a decade. We went 9-3 last year with our best player out for a third of it.

Three players get drafted before the 6 or 7th round this year. We had maybe a half dozen players that would sniff a 2 deep on a good Miami team. Louisville game? Hey, I get it, I didn't think our coaches did a good job preparing this team. But this idea that we are underperforming relative to talent... I just don't see it. On D last year we had 4 good players, not great, just above average. And the rest of the 7 were borderline Sun Belt types. Do I think that we could have done better on D? Sure, a few points per game. But jesus, Chickillo was one of our 3 or 4 best players on D and he maybe, maybe, sniffs the 2 deep on a good Miami team.

Stephen Morris was a turnover machine, threw 2 routes well. That's it.

I was disappointed in the Louisville game but besides that... I don't know what else people could have expected. And the Duke game? People can see the Duke insignia and just say they are terrible. That was a good, senior - laden football team with a better quarterback than we had. **** they gave A*M everything they wanted in the bowl game.

I've been posting on Canes boards for a decade, I went to UM, and no one wants to see UM get back to whoopin *** more than me. But, just cause we are UM doesn't mean we have some certain degree of talent all the time. It's just a uniform, just colors. Bottom line, Golden has improved the record every year, has brought some honest-to-god talent back to UM. Now, do I expect this team to improve dramatically on D this year? **** yes. Do I expect us to win the Coastal? **** yes.

But man, some people on this board just have to get past this "we are UM, therefore our team is talent heavy" despite huge evidence to the contrary.

The thing that gets me is that had that Louisville game been competitive this board has an entirely different vibe. The narrative would have been "tough loss to Louisville, but hey TB is a great college QB -- Golden and company, once they finish restocking the talent, have this team on the right path". Instead, we lose that game badly and everyone is totally convinced that Golden is a fraud. Just seems wayyy overreactive.

Thanks for not being comparable to a woman on her period. I applaud you.

 

[JHallCanes]

JHall, I'd like to know what you found so hilarious? Just looking for factual-based discussion.

First off, this is the same old tired bull****. People complain constantly about the *****ing and complaining, well guess what, the excuse making and "what-ifs" are just as ******* annoying.

We haven't played a game in months yet people are drawing all sorts of conclusions based on nothing factual.

You even go as far to say "if the Louisville game was competitive...."

Well guess what? It ******* wasn't. We got the everloving **** beat out of us.

For the most part all the posters here are rooting for The U. We don't need yet another dude to stand up on a soap box and tell us how the **** to feel after 10 god**** years of mediocrity.

We've got the most talented roster we have had here in years. Duke and Coley are as exciting a duo as you will find. Our coaching staff has a lot to show, and YES, after the Penn St/recruiting debacle, you bet your ******* *** that they owe us fans a **** of a lot.

I'm not going to apologize to you or anyone else that wants to stand up and get all dramatic and tell me what I am supposed to be seeing. The proof is in the results. I'm over all the tired mantras and Golden-isms. Show me mother****ers, or get the **** away from my football team.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Ooh the ever demanding Cane fans. Love these guys. Can't fill a qtr of their stadium but boy do they demand the world or else get the *** out their way.

 

[Topgoon]

ghost, by improved do you mean that we win at least 10? Do you mean that we won't give up 500+ yards in 3 games?

Just wondering what your criteria are for being "a much improved team".

 

[drifters1234]

The irony is that you are pleaing for rationality yet paradoxically expecting a substantial improvement in the defense. The rational expectation would be the past is a prologue of the future; therefore, we should expect more of the same - a reactive and underwhelming defense.

And based on that, every team's record will be precisely the same as the previous year, because maturity and talent influxes are myths designed to distract from the reality that the past season may as well be the future season.

Seriously though, we lost nothing of meaning on D and we are gaining an elite DE prospect, older LBs, a healthy Bush, an improving Jamal Carter and a maturing secondary. I think there is reason to expect substantial improvement.

Obviously year-to-year a team will not remain entirely stagnant. But when you have a few years of data, as we do here, the more likely (ie rational / realistic) inference is that we should expect a similar defensive style that we've had previously. The biggest gaping hole, which has never been filled in Golden's tenure, is DT. While many on here HOPE that Huertelou, Wyche, and Moore will fill that vacuum, the same group hoped that Porter, Robinson, Renfrow (et. al) would in previous years.

I also hope we see substantial improvement, but I don't think it's rational to expect we will.

 

[drifters1234]

Our defense lacked superior talent last year. Not only were many starters not Miami caliber, but the backups were not even Miami caliber backups. Nobody came in that made you rewind to see them again. That much was obvious, but I also think our O played a huge role in why our D was so awful. We rarely put together double digit play drives. We either scored in under a minute, threw an interception, fumbled, or had a three and out. Happened over and over all season long. Many times I felt like I watched us play D for an entire half. Lack of talent, lack of depth, and losing the time of possession battle were the perfect mix for a terrible D. The bend but don't break D we have run usually allows opposing teams to run 10+ plays each drive. Early in the year we held teams to a field goal or a turnover after those long drives. But then we started turning the ball over, or returned the next kickoff, or had a 3 and out, putting the D right back out there with little time to rest. As the year progressed and this continued our starters wore down and our depth was exposed badly. If our QB and RB can march us down the field and sustain drives this year I think our depth has improved enough to see a big time improvement defensively.

Please hit "enter" periodically when you post.

 

[Klamalama]

I just...

The thing that gets me is that had that Louisville game been competitive this board has an entirely different vibe.

Yes, but the game was NOT competitive. Ergo, the staff deserves the scorn heaped on it.

 

[AsylumGodfather]

Ooh the ever demanding Cane fans. Love these guys. Can't fill a qtr of their stadium but boy do they demand the world or else get the *** out their way.

Just because you're happy with mediocrity and ****** defensive play doesn't mean everybody else has to be

 

[bozcane]

Yep. Golden will likely be the interim guy who stabilized the program in many needed ways. The guy after him will take it to high places. I hope we get a good one for that!

 

[Consigliere]

UMFire,

I acknowledge that there were talent deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball. The problem is I don't think by simply improving the talent you will make up for ALL of the shortfalls of the DC and DL coach.

I don't trust Jethro, I don't trust his "track record" and I don't trust his ability to develop talent. DL is one of the most important positions and IMO you have an extremely weak coach coaching it.

He now has a bunch of talent on the DL and he has to develop that talent. 90-95% of the ACC would cream to have AQM, McCord, Chick, Kamalu, Wyche, Pierre, Hamilton and Heurtelou out there for them.

As for the Chick diatribe, a ton of teams wanted him in HS. Perhaps we're not putting him in the best position to succeed? Perhaps he is an overrated player? It is tough to really know the answer. The bottom line is the defensive line play has been pretty bad (part talent blame, part coaching blame, part scheme blame).

Even ignoring the talent, Golden has chosen to allow this guy to remain as coach of the DL.

As for the DC, I don't know he can take us where we NEED to be. On one hand, I wouldn't want to play Highsmith, Rogers, Cornelius and Green either (I love Green's heart but I don't love his abilities).

On the other hand, 90 points combined to Duke and VT. This defense and their "talent" should not allow 90 points combined to these two opponents. These teams are not offensive juggernauts coached by offensive gurus. In fact VT has been heavily criticized for their offense.

Even ignoring the past three years, Golden is going with the DC is year four.

As for our record, you need to stop with 9-3.

First, we were 9-4. Not 9-3. If you want to say during the regular season we were 9-3, that is fine. But we were 9-4. In those 4 losses we allowed OVER 160 points combined. This is terrible.

Second, the main reason you need to stop with 9-3 is because the OOC schedule changes every year (sure, if you beat an elite team than you can gloat). Unless the OOC schedule stays the same, please compare the constant (ACC SCHEDULE/PERFORMANCE)

2011: 3-5
2012: 5-3 [Two Game Improvement]
2013: 5-3* [No improvement]

*I totally acknowledge the following:
1.) That the 2013 ACC schedule was more difficult than the 2012 ACC schedule.

2.) Duke Johnson missing the last 5 games hurt.

As for the above two acknowledgements, we have no control on the quality of the ACC opponents. This will fluctuate from year to year. Injuries are part of the game, we have to be prepared to change our game plan to accommodate a loss like Duke.

In summation: I have no doubt that improving the talent will improve the defense to some degree. The problem IMO still remains though, (1) will the coaching staff put this improved talent in the best position to win? and (2) Is the staff maximizing the output of that talent?

At this point, IMO the answer to both is NO. I fear that the last two years of data is way too much evidence that these coaches can't correct their shortcomings.

 

[DaU83]

That whole Golden's going to restock the cupboards is a mute point when we've fielded two of the worse defenses in UM history in consecutive years.

You may want to rethink your stance, or the point you're trying to make.

 

[NVA CANE]

JHall, I'd like to know what you found so hilarious? Just looking for factual-based discussion.

First off, this is the same old tired bull****. People complain constantly about the *****ing and complaining, well guess what, the excuse making and "what-ifs" are just as ******* annoying.

We haven't played a game in months yet people are drawing all sorts of conclusions based on nothing factual.

You even go as far to say "if the Louisville game was competitive...."

Well guess what? It ******* wasn't. We got the everloving **** beat out of us.

For the most part all the posters here are rooting for The U. We don't need yet another dude to stand up on a soap box and tell us how the **** to feel after 10 god**** years of mediocrity.

We've got the most talented roster we have had here in years. Duke and Coley are as exciting a duo as you will find. Our coaching staff has a lot to show, and YES, after the Penn St/recruiting debacle, you bet your ******* *** that they owe us fans a **** of a lot.

I'm not going to apologize to you or anyone else that wants to stand up and get all dramatic and tell me what I am supposed to be seeing. The proof is in the results. I'm over all the tired mantras and Golden-isms. Show me mother****ers, or get the **** away from my football team.

 

[NVA CANE]

Umfire... It was a nice try but you can't reason with mutants. 3/4ths of the responses to you have ZERO substance. It's this boards theme nowadays. Just post pictures and "neg" people.

These guys don't care that we graduated 7 defensive starters and not 1 of them is going to sniff the draft.

They don't care that Duke Johnson, a top 5 talent nationally went down in game 7.

They just want to ***** and moan in a circle jerk together.

Back to shadows board where at least those who are against the staff can articulate real reasons why they are so.

I've articulated my displeasure with our current staff plenty of times. Particularly with several charts and graphs. I'm a numbers guy.

I've compared our defensive rankings to teams that play against teams with unquestionably more talent than they have (Ole Miss, Maryland,Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Miss. St.), teams with offenses that execute far worse than ours (Va Tech, Florida, South Florida), teams with actual sanctions (USC, Penn State) and offenses that have worse TOP than us (Oregon & Baylor). Guess what? These teams not only had better defenses than us, they were also top 50 at worst!

I've compared Golden's defensive history as a DC and HC. Charted his team defense rankings as well as scoring defense rankings. Guess what? He's barely average! Average total defense ranking of 68 and average scoring defense rank of 47. Should that give us hope?

I charted this seasons game's against FBS opponents: what their total offense ranking was, their average ypg and what they did against us. Guess what? We only held two teams below their season average for total yards. One of those teams, FSU, still gained over 500 yards and the other, Georgia Tech, gained over 400 yards. We only held two of our FBS opponents below 400 total yards. That's ******* pathetic.

In case you're wondering, the top 60 defenses allowed less than 400 ypg and we couldn't even do that.

Don't act like those of us who've lost faith in Golden and this staff don't bring intelligent discussion to this board. Because when we do bring numbers into the equation to back our displeasure those who still have faith point to the 1 or 2 seasons in the man's entire career where his defense wasn't mediocre to complete trash.