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2013 S&P+ vs 2012 S&P+

dg151

dg151

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For those not familiar with S&P+ ratings, it's basically an efficiency for for offenses and defenses. If you want to read the full breakdown of how they formulate it, you can read that here.

Basically just wanted to see how we compared to last year on a stat that's a little more uniform than just ppg and ypg. It's not necessarily a ranking of the teams overall, or what offense is the best, just an efficiency rating of each side of the ball.


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It's hilarious how ppl want to bash James Coley in his 1st year like Jedd Fisch was anywhere near the level of Coley last year.... the offensive effeciency rating has a lot to do w/ the fact that James Coley knows how to run the ball and trust the run game.

Jedd Fisch was terrible at that but James Coley critics act like pass plays makes up an entire offense smh.... even when it comes to pass plays the offense is more efficient b/c Coley uses the run game which effects passing efficiency in a pro style offense.
 
Defense is a lot better obviously but there is a reason why Miami has choked on 3rd and 4th down conversions in ACC play this season and it's not talent.
 
zone3cane said:
the offensive effeciency rating has a lot to do w/ the fact that James Coley knows how to run the ball
Click to expand...

When I hear offensive effeciency it immediately makes me think of two things: 3rd down conversions & Redzone TD %.. both of which we struggle with. Throw all the "ratings" you want to but this offense isn't very efficient.
 
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ilovelamp51 said:
zone3cane said:
the offensive effeciency rating has a lot to do w/ the fact that James Coley knows how to run the ball
Click to expand...

When I hear offensive effeciency it immediately makes me think of two things: 3rd down conversions & Redzone TD %.. both of which we struggle with. Throw all the "ratings" you want to but this offense isn't very efficient.
Click to expand...

Agree it's a work in progress even though there are other reasons why this offense isnt as "efficient" as what it couldve been that was out of Coley's hands....

Regardless James Coley got Devonta Freeman and Wilder in that backfield at FSU, and Kelvin Benjamin and Rashad Greene at receiver. Let him get his players in and build some depth in on the offensive side then lets see what happens.

Like I said this is Coley's 1st year..... what's D'nofrio's excuse?
 
zone3cane said:
It's hilarious how ppl want to bash James Coley in his 1st year like Jedd Fisch was anywhere near the level of Coley last year.... the offensive effeciency rating has a lot to do w/ the fact that James Coley knows how to run the ball and trust the run game.

Jedd Fisch was terrible at that but James Coley critics act like pass plays makes up an entire offense smh.... even when it comes to pass plays the offense is more efficient b/c Coley uses the run game which effects passing efficiency in a pro style offense.
Click to expand...
Zone--while I agree that the run game was something that Fisch would ignore for long periods of time (especially in his first season), Coley falls in love with it too much at times...specifically on 1st/2nd downs, and in the red zone.

Our efficiency has gone up according to these ratings, but we're still not as good of a team on 3rd Downs as we should be...which helps you sustain drives, which to me is the ultimate in offensive efficiency. Some of that is on Morris not reading the defense right or being inaccurate with the football, but I feel a big part of it is the plays that Coley is calling. There aren't enough checkdowns available for Morris to hit, and the only time we threaten the middle of the field is with a TE or with a deep ball down the field.

Fisch had his warts as an OC and playcaller, and Coley does as well. Coley needs to become less predictable given the down & distance, and needs to help Morris cut down on turnovers/sacks with more outlets to hit when pressure comes.
 
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ilovelamp51 said:
zone3cane said:
what's D'nofrio's excuse?
Click to expand...

AJ Highsmith is good enough to start at safety for his defense.
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well maybe not start but definitely get equal reps like a starter smh

It's about "mental errors" with him not physical errors like what Highsmith is known for more then any other player on the depth chart.

No reason Jamal Carter hasnt gotten an opportunity to take his lumps on the field yet, D'onofrio should be fired for that alone.
 
This is giving me a headache looking at this breakdown.

Offense: Less Turnovers and convert more first downs

Defense: More pressure and EXECUTE (no missed opportunities)
 
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sebastian91 said:
zone3cane said:
what's D'nofrio's excuse?
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't know...but it might have something to do with having to rely on a bunch of guys who wouldn't start anywhere else in the ACC.
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lol you are hilariously ridiculous if you believe that....

Every starter on this defense could start for any team in the ACC not named FSU, and some of them would start for FSU as well.
 
zone3cane said:
It's hilarious how ppl want to bash James Coley in his 1st year like Jedd Fisch was anywhere near the level of Coley last year.... the offensive effeciency rating has a lot to do w/ the fact that James Coley knows how to run the ball and trust the run game.

Jedd Fisch was terrible at that but James Coley critics act like pass plays makes up an entire offense smh.... even when it comes to pass plays the offense is more efficient b/c Coley uses the run game which effects passing efficiency in a pro style offense.
Click to expand...
I think both guys are/were good.

Fisch was dealing with a completely different animal as far as the team goes. He was told to score at will. He also helped resurrect Jacory from the dead.

All coordinators will take a lot of heat but both this year and last year, we have consistently left plays on the field because our guys just didn't make it happen.
 
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zone3cane said:
It's about "mental errors" with him not physical errors like what Highsmith is known for more then any other player on the depth chart. No reason Jamal Carter hasnt gotten an opportunity to take his lumps on the field yet, D'onofrio should be fired for that alone.
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So he should be fired for playing it safe? Last year we were forced to play Jenkins & he almost single handedly lost the Duke game for us with blown assignments.. Coach D would rather give up stuff underneath then get hit with the big play.. Yes it's ugly but it has us on top of our division sitting at 7-1. Jamal Carter hasn't gotten on the field because he can not be trusted & hasn't EARNED that right yet.
 
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I'm Hurt Dawg said:
Does it take level of competition into account?
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Yes. It also takes into account only non-garbage time plays, so most of the Savannah State game isn't included.

•Opponent adjustments: Success Rate and PPP combine to form S&P, an OPS-like measure for football. Then each team's S&P output for a given category (Rushing/Passing on either Standard Downs or Passing Downs) is compared to the expected output based upon their opponents and their opponents' opponents. For the drive efficiency portion, the same approach is taken based on net points and starting field position. This is a schedule-based adjustment designed to reward tougher schedules and punish weaker ones.
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ilovelamp51 said:
zone3cane said:
It's about "mental errors" with him not physical errors like what Highsmith is known for more then any other player on the depth chart. No reason Jamal Carter hasnt gotten an opportunity to take his lumps on the field yet, D'onofrio should be fired for that alone.
Click to expand...

So he should be fired for playing it safe? Last year we were forced to play Jenkins & he almost single handedly lost the Duke game for us with blown assignments.. Coach D would rather give up stuff underneath then get hit with the big play.. Yes it's ugly but it has us on top of our division sitting at 7-1. Jamal Carter hasn't gotten on the field because he can not be trusted & hasn't EARNED that right yet.
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bs..... Highsmith is one of the main reasons other offense score on us at will.... WAKE FOREST.

Against FSU, the Kelvin Benjamin play was pathetic, but he also looked garbage trying to stop Wilder around the edge and just looked garbage in general.

He's not a starter, but he shouldnt be on the field. Jamal Carter would make mistakes but he would make plays just on talent alone, Highsmith doesnt make "mental mistakes" but doesnt do anything but get beat and exposed.
 
BWCD said:
zone3cane said:
It's hilarious how ppl want to bash James Coley in his 1st year like Jedd Fisch was anywhere near the level of Coley last year.... the offensive effeciency rating has a lot to do w/ the fact that James Coley knows how to run the ball and trust the run game.

Jedd Fisch was terrible at that but James Coley critics act like pass plays makes up an entire offense smh.... even when it comes to pass plays the offense is more efficient b/c Coley uses the run game which effects passing efficiency in a pro style offense.
Click to expand...
Zone--while I agree that the run game was something that Fisch would ignore for long periods of time (especially in his first season), Coley falls in love with it too much at times...specifically on 1st/2nd downs, and in the red zone.

Our efficiency has gone up according to these ratings, but we're still not as good of a team on 3rd Downs as we should be...which helps you sustain drives, which to me is the ultimate in offensive efficiency. Some of that is on Morris not reading the defense right or being inaccurate with the football, but I feel a big part of it is the plays that Coley is calling. There aren't enough checkdowns available for Morris to hit, and the only time we threaten the middle of the field is with a TE or with a deep ball down the field.

Fisch had his warts as an OC and playcaller, and Coley does as well. Coley needs to become less predictable given the down & distance, and needs to help Morris cut down on turnovers/sacks with more outlets to hit when pressure comes.
Click to expand...

As bad as the offense is on 3rd down conversions the defense is worse..... the offense has actually shown slight progress in 3rd down efficiency while the defense has gotten worse and worse on 3rd downs.

On 3rd downs their is no point of having a lot of check downs thats not the issue, if you check it down and pass it to a receiver 3 yards up the field on a 3rd & 8 then whats the point?... Morris actually has hit a number of check downs in the FSU game but it still didnt lead to the team converting.

Running on 1st and 2nd downs is the best way to have a more manageable 3rd down which makes it easier to convert... if you get sacked on a 3rd down then that effects the percentage as well.... there are a number of things besides Morris and his "accuracy" or reading the defense that can negatively impact 3rd down conversion numbers. Regardless it is a work in progress and does need to improve but it's far better then where Miami was last year offensively.
 
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