Upon Further Review- Miami vs. FSU (Offense)

Upon Further Review- Miami vs. FSU (Offense)

Lance Roffers
Lance Roffers

Comments (59)

Youve been an extremely vocal Richt supporter and defender since the beginning, so it’s not surprising to see you defend him again as if he’s near flawless. As I mentioned to you and others during his first year, the irony is he even admits he has to keep adjusting himself. And, he proves that by his subsequent actions.

There’s a reason even the best teams try to add something (and I’m not talking trick plays) on top of their base, ‘just execute’ offense.
The margin of error in college is different. Sure, if the OLinemen all do their job, the RB makes the right read, the QB understands pre and post snap and the WRs catch...voila! But, things breakdown a lot. QBs and OLs need help. WRs need an edge every once in a while. RBs miss blocks.

I don’t understand why some are so against accepting that Coach Richt knows a ridiculous amount (obviously more than everyone here combined) of offense, but chooses to be very straightforward. And, that the approach has its pros and cons.

If you’re a D-Coordinator, you typically rather face a mostly straightforward, predictable offensive approach than the alternative. Coach Richt adjusts, as I noted and he has mentioned himself. We’ve seen it. At this point, I think most reasonable posters just wonder why it takes so many steps and what the rationale might be around some of the delays in the adjustments. It’s fairly obvious incrementalism.

Coach Richt is a seemingly rational man. He seemingly always has a reason behind what he does. So, while there certainly is a reason, isn’t it fair - on a message board no less - to wonder why, as only one example, the G and RT situations are still being worked on halfway through the season when 80% of this board openly talked about it during Fall camp? There are many situations/scenarios that could have put that expected vulnerability to a much earlier test. And, that’s just one example.


Agree.

The clowns that defend Richt to nauseam legit know nothing about what we’re griping about. That’s why I call them cult members, even former players gripe about how basic and vanilla the offense is.

There’s things you can do to help the ol, the qb and the entire offense. Just adding small wrinkles.

Every dc in America would prefer gameplanning four Richt than say a Clemson offense. Constant manipulation and confusion caused by simple movement, motions and shifts. Which causes breakdowns and allows easy scores. Those type of offenses have “found money” at least once or twice a game.

It’s fair to question a guy who’s previous program had qb / offense issues his last handful of years. And was one of the reasons he was canned,so he’s not above reproach.

Just because an ol misses a block or a wr drops a ball doesn’t mean the scheme as a whole has issues. It’s way bigger than that.

He needs help, somebody to bring him into the twenty first century. From and oc or special assistant.

Which I doubt he ever does.
 
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To be clear, I don't think @Mahoney-Pearson is one of the "clowns" who defend Coach Richt blindly. He's just clearly a very big Mark Richt fan and we've gone back and forth for a couple years on this topic. I'm not an anti-Richt guy. Just trying to discuss the topic - how much adjustment is needed and how quickly - in a reasonable, meaningful way.
 
*That 3rd down incomplete pass on the 1st drive was to J T not Harley... jjust letting u know.
 
To be clear, I don't think @Mahoney-Pearson is one of the "clowns" who defend Coach Richt blindly. He's just clearly a very big Mark Richt fan and we've gone back and forth for a couple years on this topic. I'm not an anti-Richt guy. Just trying to discuss the topic - how much adjustment is needed and how quickly - in a reasonable, meaningful way.

Don’t worry , I’m saying it.
 
Do what? How do you know that?

Man, I’m sure if they do read these they think I’m an idiot since I don’t know the play calls etc.

I know two members of the staff, one a higher up, too.

I know they read it because I sent it to them, and it wasn't the first they'd seen of it.

They love and respect the work. They absolutely do not laugh.
 
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The way my commentary is coming across to you is not the intended way. I am a firm believer that any good leader is looking to constantly grow and improve himself. Each leader has a core group of principles that guide them and you don't stray from those. As the saying goes, "Why would I set myself up for failure trying to be someone else when I could never be as good as that person, when I can be the best me and no one can ever be as good a version of me as me."

I am speaking to the evolution of his offense in a way that allows his already strong core principles to flourish even more. This isn't a referendum on his play calling. Hopefully, in my breakdowns I am showing how most plays would work if everyone did their job properly. But if Lincoln Riley has a concept that would work in our system, steal it. If Urban Meyer has a concept that would work in our system with our personnel, steal it. Your OL struggles, well, are there ways to scheme things easier for them? If so, steal it. The inside counter lead with a C trap on the DT is a nice example. I would've liked to see us run it again since it worked so well the first time. Flip side to that is always what happened to FSU. That middle TE screen worked great the first time. Not so much the second time.

My guess is that someone as smart as Mark Richt is already doing the things I'm referring to as far as learning and growing.

Thanks for the feedback and interaction.

Bear in mind, that with the exception of Rosier for the LSU game, innwhich Perry being suspended may have been a factor, Richt has not had the same quarterback in consecutive years at UM. I think a lot of the true evolution will be judged next season assuming Perry wins the job again.
 
Your argument works both ways. You're saying he can't open the playbook because execution on the OL is bad, but it's bad on the most basic of plays he runs as well. Wilson and Christmas for FSU were killing us up the middle yet Richt kept running at them. I think we were all begging for some off tackle runs especially at Burns who rushed up field every play.

And the "****" you're talking about: Do you think it's really **** to run a bubble screen? A simple rub route? Quick throws to get the ball out of Kosi's hands and neutralize the poor OL. We can acknowledge that both play calling and the execution were poor. They're not mutually exclusive.

They can be mutually exclusive, yes, but when dudes are schemed wide open and drop the ball or get under/overthrown the OC has done his job. FSU has been sitting on the Richt bubble-screens for 3 years and if you can't see that we'll have to ask OP to show you how they bait Richt and almost had a pick 6 if Burns didn't tip the ball last game. Cager and Thomas had critical drops that could have continued drives and may have led to 2 touchdowns. I just wonder if they catch those balls and we don't lose contain on punts, are people talking about play-calling when we win by 3 TDs?
 
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The way my commentary is coming across to you is not the intended way. I am a firm believer that any good leader is looking to constantly grow and improve himself. Each leader has a core group of principles that guide them and you don't stray from those. As the saying goes, "Why would I set myself up for failure trying to be someone else when I could never be as good as that person, when I can be the best me and no one can ever be as good a version of me as me."

I am speaking to the evolution of his offense in a way that allows his already strong core principles to flourish even more. This isn't a referendum on his play calling. Hopefully, in my breakdowns I am showing how most plays would work if everyone did their job properly. But if Lincoln Riley has a concept that would work in our system, steal it. If Urban Meyer has a concept that would work in our system with our personnel, steal it. Your OL struggles, well, are there ways to scheme things easier for them? If so, steal it. The inside counter lead with a C trap on the DT is a nice example. I would've liked to see us run it again since it worked so well the first time. Flip side to that is always what happened to FSU. That middle TE screen worked great the first time. Not so much the second time.

My guess is that someone as smart as Mark Richt is already doing the things I'm referring to as far as learning and growing.

Thanks for the feedback and interaction.

word.
 
Youve been an extremely vocal Richt supporter and defender since the beginning, so it’s not surprising to see you defend him again as if he’s near flawless. As I mentioned to you and others during his first year, the irony is he even admits he has to keep adjusting himself. And, he proves that by his subsequent actions.

There’s a reason even the best teams try to add something (and I’m not talking trick plays) on top of their base, ‘just execute’ offense.
The margin of error in college is different. Sure, if the OLinemen all do their job, the RB makes the right read, the QB understands pre and post snap and the WRs catch...voila! But, things breakdown a lot. QBs and OLs need help. WRs need an edge every once in a while. RBs miss blocks.

I don’t understand why some are so against accepting that Coach Richt knows a ridiculous amount (obviously more than everyone here combined) of offense, but chooses to be very straightforward. And, that the approach has its pros and cons.

If you’re a D-Coordinator, you typically rather face a mostly straightforward, predictable offensive approach than the alternative. Coach Richt adjusts, as I noted and he has mentioned himself. We’ve seen it. At this point, I think most reasonable posters just wonder why it takes so many steps and what the rationale might be around some of the delays in the adjustments. It’s fairly obvious incrementalism.

Coach Richt is a seemingly rational man. He seemingly always has a reason behind what he does. So, while there certainly is a reason, isn’t it fair - on a message board no less - to wonder why, as only one example, the G and RT situations are still being worked on halfway through the season when 80% of this board openly talked about it during Fall camp? There are many situations/scenarios that could have put that expected vulnerability to a much earlier test. And, that’s just one example.

Richt considered pulling Perry but didn't, and I'm sure you think he's a genius for that. Right? Same applies with the rest of your Wednesday morning post..

I'm not defending Richt's perfection as much as i'm asking a question about how much lipstick you put on a pig before realizing it still smells like rancid several-day ****.

Richt clearly wants to give players a chance to fail, learn, and improve; especially when there's nothing proven behind them. I understand the questions on a site like this, but shame on me for hoping there's a some level of intellect, understanding and logic, which thankfully "upon further review" helps to inject. Otherwise, we're just talking about bubble-screens, motion, and needing a better OC, without understanding why we don't throw bubbles every down or how all the pre-snap motion in the world isn't going to help Mahoney or Jones to block the dude in front of them.

I'm beyond thankful for OP and what he does, because without him there would be an avalanche of negativity, feelings, and name-calling without a millimeter of understanding. My comments are made to make people think a little more critically about what's going on, and to avoid the group-think that lives here and says we need a new OC because we didn't score 50 pts each week.

Richt can critique himself Monday-morning QB style because as OP humbly said, he knows the play-call and has complete understanding. Meanwhile, porsters start threads to criticize the man for not calling bubble screens without understanding why; it's simply playing the result and doing it very poorly. Also, ever stop to think Lincoln Riley, Urban, and whoever look so **** because their dudes block well and "things [don't] break down alot for them"? How about reviewing their plays to see what it takes to look so good?

thanks for the comment, and i appreciate the positive interaction.
 
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Agree.

The clowns that defend Richt to nauseam legit know nothing about what we’re griping about. That’s why I call them cult members, even former players gripe about how basic and vanilla the offense is.

There’s things you can do to help the ol, the qb and the entire offense. Just adding small wrinkles.

Every dc in America would prefer gameplanning four Richt than say a Clemson offense. Constant manipulation and confusion caused by simple movement, motions and shifts. Which causes breakdowns and allows easy scores. Those type of offenses have “found money” at least once or twice a game.

It’s fair to question a guy who’s previous program had qb / offense issues his last handful of years. And was one of the reasons he was canned,so he’s not above reproach.

Just because an ol misses a block or a wr drops a ball doesn’t mean the scheme as a whole has issues. It’s way bigger than that.

He needs help, somebody to bring him into the twenty first century. From and oc or special assistant.

Which I doubt he ever does.

He wasn't calling the offense (and hadn't been for several seasons) when he got canned and I stopped reading at that point, but carry on....
 
@Lance Roffers

How often have you been able to predict plays over the last 3-4 games? You have a great grasp on our concepts honest question.
 
Yes, a lot. Just because its good enough to beat most of schlebs on the schedule doesn't mean its a championship winning offense. We can out athlete most of the schedule, not going work for Bama, UGA, OhioSt, Clemson, etc.

funny, all those teams out athlete people. Richt's offense has won a national championship already, but go ahead and show me the last gimmick offense that won a natty.
 
*That 3rd down incomplete pass on the 1st drive was to J T not Harley... jjust letting u know.

My fault if so. Thanks for the correction. I have most of the numbers memorized even though I have the roster up on a third screen (game on one, Word document on another, roster on third). Sometimes I have a name in my head and type another one because I’m going too quickly. Usually when I edit I catch a lot of my mistakes, but that’s two weeks in a row with an error.
 
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@Lance Roffers

How often have you been able to predict plays over the last 3-4 games? You have a great grasp on our concepts honest question.

One of the best things about Richt’s offense is that while there are fewer formations and motion than some offenses he has a variation built into most calls based on what the defense is doing. Meaning, there run concepts, pass concepts, and options built on the numbers the defense is giving you. Many times the plays are as simple as the math (number of defenders in box, or on edge vs blockers etc.). Sometimes it depends on what the edge player does in a read situation.

To answer the question, I can give you a pretty good idea of what we are going to run most of the time during a game, but most people could if they see the math or strength of the defensive formation. Additionally, you can see the way a defense plays a formation earlier in the game and then come back to it later when they did something you wanted to see, even if the play wasn’t what you will call next time.

An example is that early QB run for Francois when Romeo attacked it hard on the bubble look out of a bunch set. I bet the FSU staff saw how hard we attacked that and said we’ve got that double pass when we need it just based on the way the defense played it outside. They absolutely did have it if they executed it as well.

The OL combination tells me a lot about the run blocking technique we will run as well. We slide more with some combinations. IZ or OZ more with different combinations. Homer runs more counters and OZ than Dallas, who runs more IZ. Gray in the game and we tend run certain plays.

This isn’t something the defense doesn’t already know. Most times it comes down to do you do your job better than the other guy? Get enough of those doing it better for you and most plays will work out well.
 
Richt considered pulling Perry but didn't, and I'm sure you think he's a genius for that. Right? Same applies with the rest of your Wednesday morning post..

No idea what any of this means. All good either way. Thanks for your contribution to the board.
 
funny, all those teams out athlete people. Richt's offense has won a national championship already, but go ahead and show me the last gimmick offense that won a natty.

And what do you consider a gimmick offense? I can't really think of one at the moment. And Who wants to run a gimmick offense?

I'm not sure what winning a title in the 90s has to do with today. Randy Shannon's D won a title in the 2000s and he's a LB coach at UCF. Game has changed in ton in the last 20-30 years, if you need evidence watch Andy Reid or Sean McVay offense/playcalling.
 
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Richt considered pulling Perry but didn't, and I'm sure you think he's a genius for that. Right? Same applies with the rest of your Wednesday morning post..

I'm not defending Richt's perfection as much as i'm asking a question about how much lipstick you put on a pig before realizing it still smells like rancid several-day ****.

Richt clearly wants to give players a chance to fail, learn, and improve; especially when there's nothing proven behind them. I understand the questions on a site like this, but shame on me for hoping there's a some level of intellect, understanding and logic, which thankfully "upon further review" helps to inject. Otherwise, we're just talking about bubble-screens, motion, and needing a better OC, without understanding why we don't throw bubbles every down or how all the pre-snap motion in the world isn't going to help Mahoney or Jones to block the dude in front of them.

I'm beyond thankful for OP and what he does, because without him there would be an avalanche of negativity, feelings, and name-calling without a millimeter of understanding. My comments are made to make people think a little more critically about what's going on, and to avoid the group-think that lives here and says we need a new OC because we didn't score 50 pts each week.

Richt can critique himself Monday-morning QB style because as OP humbly said, he knows the play-call and has complete understanding. Meanwhile, porsters start threads to criticize the man for not calling bubble screens without understanding why; it's simply playing the result and doing it very poorly. Also, ever stop to think Lincoln Riley, Urban, and whoever look so **** because their dudes block well and "things [don't] break down alot for them"? How about reviewing their plays to see what it takes to look so good?

thanks for the comment, and i appreciate the positive interaction.
If they’re missing their blocks or assignments then it’s not working you dummy. That’s the whole point. It’s supposed to work in theory but it’s not so you try something different.

Either recruit players that can flawlessly execute or change the play calls.

Your philosophy is stupid and would get most people fired from their jobs.

Repeat this to yourself until it sinks in.

If in theory you are doing everything correctly but the results aren’t there then you are doing something wrong.
 
And what do you consider a gimmick offense? I can't really think of one at the moment. And Who wants to run a gimmick offense?

I'm not sure what winning a title in the 90s has to do with today. Randy Shannon's D won a title in the 2000s and he's a LB coach at UCF. Game has changed in ton in the last 20-30 years, if you need evidence watch Andy Reid or Sean McVay offense/playcalling.
An offense that got Oklahoma into the playoffs and shredded a stout and highly talented UGA defense is a gimmick bro. An offense that turned a two bit program like Baylor into a top tier program is a gimmick. An offense that saw Oregon go to a national championship and made that program a household name is a gimmick bro.

The guy is a clown.
 
If they’re missing their blocks or assignments then it’s not working you dummy. That’s the whole point. It’s supposed to work in theory but it’s not so you try something different.

Either recruit players that can flawlessly execute or change the play calls.

Your philosophy is stupid and would get most people fired from their jobs.

Repeat this to yourself until it sinks in.

If in theory you are doing everything correctly but the results aren’t there then you are doing something wrong.


They are recruiting better linemen and I hope they get the large man from IMG who's last name is Neal.
I'm concerned about coach Richt getting too smart with the plays because, like you said, they already have trouble "missing their blocks or assignments".

Do you think they'd be capable of executing another, more sophisticated play? Why don't you repeat this question to yourself until it sinks in...

BTW, you seem angry; is everything okay?
 
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And what do you consider a gimmick offense? I can't really think of one at the moment. And Who wants to run a gimmick offense?

I'm not sure what winning a title in the 90s has to do with today. Randy Shannon's D won a title in the 2000s and he's a LB coach at UCF. Game has changed in ton in the last 20-30 years, if you need evidence watch Andy Reid or Sean McVay offense/playcalling.

It means he's already climbed the mountain top in CFB from a coordinator standpoint, and Randy's D had multiple HOFers that allowed his unit to simply out-athlete offenses, and would have been equally well coached by most competent DCs. That said, gimmicks aside, talent rules.

Reid and McVay are in the NFL. Nice try.
 
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