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Coley's burden

Coley's burden

DMoney
DMoney

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FloppyBootStomp said:
Dan E. Dangerously said:
I don't see how Golden wouldn't show the same patience with Coley as he has with Dorito. As disjointed as the offense looked at times last year, Coley wasn't in charge of the worst unit in school history.
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Golden threw Coley and the offense under the bus quite a bit last season to take heat off of Donofrio. He's definitely shown favoritism. If Golden isn't fired after this season, I wouldn't be surprised if Coley is and Donofrio is retained. That's how messed up the situation is. There's no place for it in college football.
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I'm just saying it's not logical for Coley to be in jeopardy if Dorito isn't. But then again this is Golden we're talking about.
 
INCaneFan said:
BWCD said:
LuiiisMDO said:
Though I don't agree with his play-calling at times, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see Kaaya/Rosier. You have to give an OC a chance to hand pick his qb & groom him to fit his scheme. If this year's qb recruits don't pan out then that will be a direct reflection on Coley
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My problem with this line of thought is that Fisch parlayed his coaching and playcalling ability without having "his own players" into a short stint at Miami and then an NFL OC gig. He didn't need to have success with another QB...he had success with Harris and Morris both. Granted...he had an "in" with Gus Bradley from his time at UFayg, but still...had he not had success with someone else's QBs at Miami, Bradley wouldn't have made him OC.

Coley's got to pick it up sometime here soon. It doesn't matter if it's his own players or not, it matters how he uses them.
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You and others still appear to be sold on Fisch being something I have always said he wasn't, good OC and QB coach. His QB's / I'd performances in games against anyone but the sisters of the poor was abysmal to say the least.

He got that job due to his connection. That's how it works most of the time.
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I'm sold that he was a better playcaller and QB coach than Coley is. Fisch got something out of both Harris and Morris that we didn't see either of them have with other coordinators in their careers at Miami. For all of the punts that Japicky threw into triple coverage, and for all of the underneath routes that Morris missed, Fisch got some pretty good QB play out of both of them. When they made mistakes, he did his best to make sure he corrected them. Everytime one of them made a mistake, the first guy to meet them on the sideline was Fisch.

Now, I didn't see Coley doing a lot of that this past season. It was more Morris coming over to the sideline, shaking his head and explaining what happened while Coley was trying to talk to him, and then he'd go sit down with his flat brim sideline cap and eat a Snickers while laughing with his boys. Coley might play that, but Fisch never did. Subtle things like handling a QB are part of being an effective QB Coach.

I also feel that Fisch fell in love with throwing the ball more than he should have when the run was working...but the plays he called were well-conceived. He wasn't calling plays that got in our own way and didn't fit our personnel. Coley on the other hand LOVES that stretch zone run play that our RB's and our OL just DO NOT run well at all. Why run that play when powers/counters/isos are all working? The only thing I can figure is that he had a homerun pass play in his pocket that was based on that stretch zone action, and he was constantly trying to set that up. However, as a play caller...if the play you're running to set up the homerun isn't working itself, then the D isn't going to bite on the fake when you run the play you want. So what use is it? Time to scrap that and reevaluate your mode of attack.

And I addressed Fisch's connection to Bradley in my post. However, had Fisch not had success as an OC at Miami, he wouldn't have gotten the OC gig with Jacksonville. Bradley might have brought him in as an offensive assistant or QB coach, but not an OC. The nepotism got him in the door with Bradley, his own success as OC at Miami got him an NFL OC gig instead of an assistant's job. That was my point.
 
Dan E. Dangerously said:
FloppyBootStomp said:
Dan E. Dangerously said:
I don't see how Golden wouldn't show the same patience with Coley as he has with Dorito. As disjointed as the offense looked at times last year, Coley wasn't in charge of the worst unit in school history.
Click to expand...

Golden threw Coley and the offense under the bus quite a bit last season to take heat off of Donofrio. He's definitely shown favoritism. If Golden isn't fired after this season, I wouldn't be surprised if Coley is and Donofrio is retained. That's how messed up the situation is. There's no place for it in college football.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying it's not logical for Coley to be in jeopardy if Dorito isn't. But then again this is Golden we're talking about.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you want him to make the same mistake twice.

I realize you are displeased with Golden and D'Onofrio, but it doesn't make sense to me to be mad at Golden if he gets rid of Coley because he isn't cutting it.

Right or wrong, all the focus goes on the Golden/D'Onofrio relationship, when Golden has been loyal, to a fault, to all his coaches.
 
BWCD said:
INCaneFan said:
BWCD said:
LuiiisMDO said:
Though I don't agree with his play-calling at times, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see Kaaya/Rosier. You have to give an OC a chance to hand pick his qb & groom him to fit his scheme. If this year's qb recruits don't pan out then that will be a direct reflection on Coley
Click to expand...
My problem with this line of thought is that Fisch parlayed his coaching and playcalling ability without having "his own players" into a short stint at Miami and then an NFL OC gig. He didn't need to have success with another QB...he had success with Harris and Morris both. Granted...he had an "in" with Gus Bradley from his time at UFayg, but still...had he not had success with someone else's QBs at Miami, Bradley wouldn't have made him OC.

Coley's got to pick it up sometime here soon. It doesn't matter if it's his own players or not, it matters how he uses them.
Click to expand...

You and others still appear to be sold on Fisch being something I have always said he wasn't, good OC and QB coach. His QB's / I'd performances in games against anyone but the sisters of the poor was abysmal to say the least.

He got that job due to his connection. That's how it works most of the time.
Click to expand...
I'm sold that he was a better playcaller and QB coach than Coley is. Fisch got something out of both Harris and Morris that we didn't see either of them have with other coordinators in their careers at Miami. For all of the punts that Japicky threw into triple coverage, and for all of the underneath routes that Morris missed, Fisch got some pretty good QB play out of both of them. When they made mistakes, he did his best to make sure he corrected them. Everytime one of them made a mistake, the first guy to meet them on the sideline was Fisch.

Now, I didn't see Coley doing a lot of that this past season. It was more Morris coming over to the sideline, shaking his head and explaining what happened while Coley was trying to talk to him, and then he'd go sit down with his flat brim sideline cap and eat a Snickers while laughing with his boys. Coley might play that, but Fisch never did. Subtle things like handling a QB are part of being an effective QB Coach.

I also feel that Fisch fell in love with throwing the ball more than he should have when the run was working...but the plays he called were well-conceived. He wasn't calling plays that got in our own way and didn't fit our personnel. Coley on the other hand LOVES that stretch zone run play that our RB's and our OL just DO NOT run well at all. Why run that play when powers/counters/isos are all working? The only thing I can figure is that he had a homerun pass play in his pocket that was based on that stretch zone action, and he was constantly trying to set that up. However, as a play caller...if the play you're running to set up the homerun isn't working itself, then the D isn't going to bite on the fake when you run the play you want. So what use is it? Time to scrap that and reevaluate your mode of attack.

And I addressed Fisch's connection to Bradley in my post. However, had Fisch not had success as an OC at Miami, he wouldn't have gotten the OC gig with Jacksonville. Bradley might have brought him in as an offensive assistant or QB coach, but not an OC. The nepotism got him in the door with Bradley, his own success as OC at Miami got him an NFL OC gig instead of an assistant's job. That was my point.
Click to expand...

Yeah but the same can be said for Coley if you want to make that argument. I mean for all the erratic throws and underneath routes missed, Morris did make some really great throws under Coley's tutelage. If you really examine Morris' performance over the past two season, he is the same QB each year. It looked better under Fisch due to his strong final four games against weak competition which gave the perception that Morris was better than he really is.

I disagree on the zone blocking scheme on this point: Duke is a fantastic stretch zone runner. The other rb's maybe not but Duke is made for stretch zone running. And some criticism should be leveled at Kehoe for his inability to get the OL to effectively zone block.
 
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Angry Ibis said:
Dan E. Dangerously said:
FloppyBootStomp said:
Dan E. Dangerously said:
I don't see how Golden wouldn't show the same patience with Coley as he has with Dorito. As disjointed as the offense looked at times last year, Coley wasn't in charge of the worst unit in school history.
Click to expand...

Golden threw Coley and the offense under the bus quite a bit last season to take heat off of Donofrio. He's definitely shown favoritism. If Golden isn't fired after this season, I wouldn't be surprised if Coley is and Donofrio is retained. That's how messed up the situation is. There's no place for it in college football.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying it's not logical for Coley to be in jeopardy if Dorito isn't. But then again this is Golden we're talking about.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you want him to make the same mistake twice.

I realize you are displeased with Golden and D'Onofrio, but it doesn't make sense to me to be mad at Golden if he gets rid of Coley because he isn't cutting it.

Right or wrong, all the focus goes on the Golden/D'Onofrio relationship, when Golden has been loyal, to a fault, to all his coaches.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be mad, Coley should be mad. Dorito is a joke and in no way should last longer here than Coley.
 
Last edited:
Dan E. Dangerously said:
FloppyBootStomp said:
Dan E. Dangerously said:
I don't see how Golden wouldn't show the same patience with Coley as he has with Dorito. As disjointed as the offense looked at times last year, Coley wasn't in charge of the worst unit in school history.
Click to expand...

Golden threw Coley and the offense under the bus quite a bit last season to take heat off of Donofrio. He's definitely shown favoritism. If Golden isn't fired after this season, I wouldn't be surprised if Coley is and Donofrio is retained. That's how messed up the situation is. There's no place for it in college football.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying it's not logical for Coley to be in jeopardy if Dorito isn't. But then again this is Golden we're talking about.
Click to expand...

Agree with you that it isn't logical for Coley's job to be at risk and not Dorito.

However, it isn't logical to keep Dorito and not change the scheme given how poorly the defense has performed over the last couple of years.
 
Let's be clear about something....BOTH those guys should be equally at risk.

With the skill position talent we had you can almost make the argument that Coley's unit underperformed at an even more alarming rate than that God forsaken defense we had.

I'm going to keep saying it...the only reason Coley isn't viewed as Pat Nix the sequel right now is cause the fanbase is up in arms about Onfrio. However, I think you can easily make an argument that BOTH these guys are horrible at calling plays and managing a game on actual gamedays.

And guess what...that all points back to Golden. Last time I checked one of the biggest responsibilities of a head coach is to be able to identify and surround themselves with good coaching talent.
 
Jedi Master Cane said:
Let's be clear about something....BOTH those guys should be equally at risk.

With the skill position talent we had you can almost make the argument that Coley's unit underperformed at an even more alarming rate than that God forsaken defense we had.

I'm going to keep saying it...the only reason Coley isn't viewed as Pat Nix the sequel right now is cause the fanbase is up in arms about Onfrio. However, I think you can easily make an argument that BOTH these guys are horrible at calling plays and managing a game on actual gamedays.

And guess what...that all points back to Golden. Last time I checked one of the biggest responsibilities of a head coach is to be able to identify and surround themselves with good coaching talent.
Click to expand...

Your right about Coley getting by because of the defense. There was a handful of people during the season that tried voicing this opinion and they were blasted.
 
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kmwcane said:
Yeah but the same can be said for Coley if you want to make that argument. I mean for all the erratic throws and underneath routes missed, Morris did make some really great throws under Coley's tutelage. If you really examine Morris' performance over the past two season, he is the same QB each year. It looked better under Fisch due to his strong final four games against weak competition which gave the perception that Morris was better than he really is.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but Coley didn't do anything to foster the good things that Morris did under Fisch. This past year should have been the year that Morris took a step forward as a QB. Instead, he stayed the same and in some ways, got worse (granted: some of that is on Morris too, but Coley is his OC/QB Coach, so he bares some of the blame). Fisch not only had Morris improve his play some under him, but had Jacory do the same in just the one season under him. That tells me a lot about Fisch as a coach compared to Coley.

I disagree on the zone blocking scheme on this point: Duke is a fantastic stretch zone runner. The other rb's maybe not but Duke is made for stretch zone running. And some criticism should be leveled at Kehoe for his inability to get the OL to effectively zone block.
Click to expand...
Duke's a fantastic runner, period. You block up a play right, he's going to take it for a big gainer. I can somewhat agree on Kehoe being to blame on the zone blocking, but if you're Coley calling the plays, then you need to call plays that cater to the strengths of your offense. The ones that you run really well. Duke may run that play well, but if the other guys can't--you don't lean on it during the games and use it when it's not working--it's counter-productive. Instead, you should use what works, and let Duke run thru the holes on the plays that the OL can block it up well for.
 
OBLIVION said:
Jedi Master Cane said:
Let's be clear about something....BOTH those guys should be equally at risk.

With the skill position talent we had you can almost make the argument that Coley's unit underperformed at an even more alarming rate than that God forsaken defense we had.

I'm going to keep saying it...the only reason Coley isn't viewed as Pat Nix the sequel right now is cause the fanbase is up in arms about Onfrio. However, I think you can easily make an argument that BOTH these guys are horrible at calling plays and managing a game on actual gamedays.

And guess what...that all points back to Golden. Last time I checked one of the biggest responsibilities of a head coach is to be able to identify and surround themselves with good coaching talent.
Click to expand...

Your right about Coley getting by because of the defense. There was a handful of people during the season that tried voicing this opinion and they were blasted.
Click to expand...
Agreed/co-signed/seconded all around. NoDFrio sucks, but he sucks so bad, that by comparison, Coley is Norm Chow in some people's mind...even though he sucks in his own right.
 
DMoney said:
At some point this weekend, the Jaguars will pick Jedd Fisch’s quarterback for him. Fisch will have some input, sure. But his main focus will be doing what he does best: developing his quarterback and calling plays.

Unfortunately for James Coley, Fisch already picked Miami’s quarterbacks. And now the Canes are facing the very real prospect of a true freshman starting under center.

In two years, Miami signed four quarterbacks. Preston Dewey and David Thompson are no longer with the team. Gray Crow is a non-factor. And there is a growing belief that Kevin Olsen is not the guy. Duke Johnson’s injury derailed the 2013 season and exposed a stunning lack of depth at the position. Ryan Williams’ injury threatens to do the same thing this year.

Al Golden is no stranger to quarterback dilemmas. His Temple teams finished an average of 76th in the nation in quarterback rating. Golden’s inherited QBs at Miami fared much better, finishing an average of 29[SUP]th[/SUP] in the nation. Those guys have since moved on, and now Fisch’s folly is Coley’s burden.

Coley brought in two smart, strong-armed kids in Brad Kaaya and Malik Rosier to fix the problem. My educated guess is that one of them will start. There will be growing pains. I just hope Coach Golden shows as much patience with Coley as he has shown with other assistant coaches.
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Except as my buddy just pointed out to me, Olson had an offer from and was recruited hard by Coley and FSU. So I'm not too sure about absolving him.

Bottom line is everyone wanted Olson. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Kyle Wright, Bryan Fortay, Chris Walsh. And on and on. Glad we have 2 arriving this month.
 
BWCD said:
Yeah, but Coley didn't do anything to foster the good things that Morris did under Fisch. This past year should have been the year that Morris took a step forward as a QB. Instead, he stayed the same and in some ways, got worse (granted: some of that is on Morris too, but Coley is his OC/QB Coach, so he bares an equal amount of the blame). Fisch not only had Morris improve his play some under him, but had Jacory do the same in just the one season under him. That tells me a lot about Fisch as a coach compared to Coley.
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FIFY
 
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Problem: Bad coaches were given too much time!
Solution: Give another bad coach too much time!

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Honestly, I think it's bullsh&t to argue that Coley is burdened . Kevin Olsen was a nationally recruited QB. He was able to start in Coley's system last year, was getting serious burn in the spring this year, and now has the entire summer to get prepared as the starter. Before Williams got hurt, many fans were skeptical that he was good enough to be our starter and questioned whether it was better to give Olsen or Kaaya a chance, as they would be the QBs of the future.

At some point, the coaches have to be expected to get the best out of their players, put their guys in the position to excel and design things to help them be successful. If Olsen got hurt and we had to rely on Crow, then I would have some sympathy. But, let's be clear - this is not a situation where we're asking Coley to work with Spencer Whipple. Olsen is young enough to be taught and molded into something better. We're not asking him (or expecting him) to be a superstar, to be Manziel or Winston, we're asking him to be efficient and get the ball to our skill guys. If Coley cannot help Olsen do that this season, or cannot help Kaaya get there this season, then that's on him.
 
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RaiseCane said:
At some point, the coaches have to be expected to get the best out of their players, put their guys in the position to excel and design things to help them be successful. If Olsen got hurt and we had to rely on Crow, then I would have some sympathy. But, let's be clear - this is not a situation where we're asking Coley to work with Spencer Whipple. Olsen is young enough to be taught and molded into something better. We're not asking him (or expecting him) to be a superstar, to be Manziel or Winston, we're asking him to be efficient and get the ball to our skill guys. If Coley cannot help Olsen do that this season, or cannot help Kaaya get there this season, then that's on him.
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This. 1000x, this.
 
Fisch's biggest issue was situational awareness. The offense was great between the 20s but in the red zone he would get cute instead of going to what worked.

Overall he did a better job than Coley, but he wasn't incredible.
 
Dan E. Dangerously said:
FloppyBootStomp said:
Dan E. Dangerously said:
I don't see how Golden wouldn't show the same patience with Coley as he has with Dorito. As disjointed as the offense looked at times last year, Coley wasn't in charge of the worst unit in school history.
Click to expand...

Golden threw Coley and the offense under the bus quite a bit last season to take heat off of Donofrio. He's definitely shown favoritism. If Golden isn't fired after this season, I wouldn't be surprised if Coley is and Donofrio is retained. That's how messed up the situation is. There's no place for it in college football.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying it's not logical for Coley to be in jeopardy if Dorito isn't. But then again this is Golden we're talking about.
Click to expand...

Guys you win some lose some.
 
When are we gonna see another "The Works"? Curious what's going on since other teams are getting recruits all spring and we're not making big splashes on the regular. Still can't believe these south Florida kids dissing the U and going to Bama and other places.
 
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