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Year 2 Turnarounds for CFB HCs

yessirking said:
Before Urban Meyer took over at Ohio State, the buckeyes record was 6-7 with a new head coach. His name was Like Fickell and he was fired after 1 year.

Flash forward to 2017, Luke Fickell is named the head coach of U of Cincinnati.

His first year at UoC: 4-8
Second year: 11-2
Third year: 11-3 and east conference champs.

When I think of other CFB coaches, this is the guy that most reminds me of Manny Diaz.
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if this happens I'd be good with that.
 
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yessirking said:
Before Urban Meyer took over at Ohio State, the buckeyes record was 6-7 with a new head coach. His name was Luke Fickell and he was fired after 1 year.

Flash forward to 2017, Luke Fickell is named the head coach of U of Cincinnati.

His first year at UoC: 4-8
Second year: 11-2
Third year: 11-3 and east conference champs.

When I think of other CFB coaches, this is the guy that most reminds me of Manny Diaz.
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fickel was the interim coach and he stayed on as dc after urban was hired. that team was the only osu team from 2005 to present to Not win 10 games. you Can’t Shyet the bed with that roster and act like you’re a good coach. He might be Cincy good
 
Rellyrell said:
Saban: Previous HC Experience at MSU prior to LSU. Previous HC Experience at LSU and NFLprior to Bama.

Pete Carroll: Previous NFL HC Experience

Mack Brown: Previous HC Experience

Bob Stoops: First time HC; but was a National Championship AHC/DC at UF

Jimmy Johnson: Previous HC Experience

Urban Meyers: Previous HC Experience

Mark Richt; First time HC at UGA, but was a National Championship AHC/OC at FSU
At Miami, previous HC Experience

Tom Herman: Previous HC Experience

Context is everything
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Mark Richt and Bob Stoops both had huge jumps in their 2nd year as FIRST time HCs. They were Coordinators before. Period. The Title change didn’t make them a HC as AHC, they simple had more autonomy in their roles as a Coord.

Mark Richt didn’t have any more AHC duties than Micky Andrews at FSU. LMAO. He was a Coordinator.

Manny already had autonomy as Mark’s DC - which is essentially AHC type responsibilities. Mark even said he did the same thing for Manny that Bobby did for him. He had Far less oversight than most Coordinators at other Unis.

He was in the exact same position as Richt and Stoops. No spinning it.

People can make 1k excuses for Manny. Bottom line - he’s the ******* HC at MIAMI. He has more resources at his finger tips than any previous HC. And just like Stoops, Richt (and I’m sure there are others) he’s ultimately making the decisions that will either lead to 11 wins or not.

WINNERS win.
 
The Franchise said:
I started that Year 2 analysis about 12 years ago. It still holds up today. The truly top HCs almost always make a big move in year 2.
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Yep. I remember you talking about it when Shannon took over and I wasn’t trying to hear that *****. To me, Randy was a **** Hurricane and I was willing to give him a little more time. Born & Raised. Played. Drafted by a Cane. Took a job as a LB coach with the Dolphins. Became the Hurricane DC - and proceeded to lay the smack down in 2001.
 
MrMachete said:
Yep. I remember you talking about it when Shannon took over and I wasn’t trying to hear that *****. To me, Randy was a **** Hurricane and I was willing to give him a little more time. Born & Raised. Played. Drafted by a Cane. Took a job as a LB coach with the Dolphins. Became the Hurricane DC - and proceeded to lay the smack down in 2001.
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Yessir. Unfortunately, my Year 2 hypothesis has only continued to solidify itself over the years since then.
 
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MrMachete said:
Mark Richt and Bob Stoops both had huge jumps in their 2nd year as FIRST time HCs. They were Coordinators before. Period. The Title change didn’t make them a HC as AHC, they simple had more autonomy in their roles as a Coord.

Mark Richt didn’t have any more AHC duties than Micky Andrews at FSU. LMAO. He was a Coordinator.

Manny already had autonomy as Mark’s DC - which is essentially AHC type responsibilities. Mark even said he did the same thing for Manny that Bobby did for him. He had Far less oversight than most Coordinators at other Unis.

He was in the exact same position as Richt and Stoops. No spinning it.

People can make 1k excuses for Manny. Bottom line - he’s the ******* HC at MIAMI. He has more resources at his finger tips than any previous HC. And just like Stoops, Richt (and I’m sure there are others) he’s ultimately making the decisions that will either lead to 11 wins or not.

WINNERS win.
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My friend, you gets no argument from me. What I was highlighting is that in the case of Stoops and Richt, although first time head coaches, they came from a winning regime. My post was not to defend Manny, as oppose to highlight that those examples shouldn't give us hope. lol. Manny's pedigree is not stellar, and if he does succeed this year, I will give him even more credit.
 
Nope, our fans have already decided what type of coach Manny is and can be after 1 whole season. That can only happen with other places and coaches. They want to hire a new coach every year here.

Again, I can’t wait until the season kicks off and we are putting on a show, racking up Ws. The corny *** nicknames will stop and everybody will be posturing for a seat on the Canes bandwagon. But just know that I’m calling y’all out all season long.
 
Usafcane88 said:
Manny has done a good job changing the narrative this off-season. He definitely knows how to build hype in the off-season. Maybe so much so that many have forgotten the putrid showing by our team last season. I can't remember ending a season lower than last season. Just awful.

It's sink or swim this year for Manny. He better destroy UNC after our bye because losing 3 games after a bye last year was insanely bad. Manny has the dedication and intelligence to build a winning team. Now he has to show he can be a sufficient game day coach.
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One of the tiny little creditos I will give shanny this offseason is the dose of humility he SEEMS to be displaying by NOT being as blowhard as last offseason.

Good moves on OFF staff, good portal, decent crootin, toned down rhetoric.

cautiously optimistic, but ready to say - ha, there it is, again first time Baker lets 4th n 17 happen against ITT.
 
Rellyrell said:
Saban: Previous HC Experience at MSU prior to LSU. Previous HC Experience at LSU and NFLprior to Bama.

Pete Carroll: Previous NFL HC Experience

Mack Brown: Previous HC Experience

Bob Stoops: First time HC; but was a National Championship AHC/DC at UF

Jimmy Johnson: Previous HC Experience

Urban Meyers: Previous HC Experience

Mark Richt; First time HC at UGA, but was a National Championship AHC/OC at FSU
At Miami, previous HC Experience

Tom Herman: Previous HC Experience

Context is everything
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That's a good point, and when you look at them:

Mack Brown
Tulane
  • Year prior to hiring: 3-8
  • Year 1: 1-10
  • Year 2: 4-7
Urban Meyer
Bowling Green
  • Year prior to hiring: 2-9
  • Year 1: 8-3
  • Year 2: 9-3
Nick Saban
Toledo
  • Year prior to hiring: 6-5
  • Year 1: 9-2
  • Year 2: left
Jimmy Johnson
Oklahoma State
  • Year prior to hiring: 3-8
  • Year 1: 7-4
  • Year 2: 3-7-1
Tom Herman
Houston
  • Year prior to hiring: 8-5
  • Year 1: 13-1
  • Year 2: 9-3
That said, it's harder to gauge (at least a bit) due to the power of the conferences of most of the initial schools that they coached at. What I mean by that it that the bigger the school, the more difficult it is to turn around.
 
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Astcloud11 said:
Counter argument, you never really know, sometimes you give your guy enough time and he has a break through, or you end up with Al Golden running in circles for years.

Examples of how long it took for coaches to win 9+ regular season games:

Chris Peterson(Boise State) Year 1
Chris Peterson (Washington) 3 years
James Franklin (Vandy) Never won 9 regular season games in 3 years
James Franklin (Penn) 3 years
Matt Rhule (Temple) 3 years
Matt Rhule (Baylor) 3 years
Mark Dantonio(MSU) Year 2 won 9 games, but dipped then solidified himself in year 4.
Sonny Dykes(SMU) 3 years (Thanks to Lashlee)
Pj Fleck (Minnesota) 3 years
Pj Fleck(WMU) 4 years
Dabo Swinney(Clemson) 4 year
Kirk Ferentz (Iowa) 4 years
Mack Brown(UNC) 5 years



Really there are a ton of respectful coaches out there who took 3-4 years to build a consistent program. There are also even more coaches who stalled for years with no serious outcome. That's why I'll always feel like a coach should be given 4 years as long as he makes changes. Al Golden screwed with us by winning 9 games in year 3 and seemed to be on the same trajectory as a successful coach.
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I see your point but this is Miami, I mean SMU? We can just cross every one of those of the list bar Clemson, PSU and maybe Washington.
 
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NZ Cane said:
I see your point but this is Miami, I mean SMU? We can just cross every one of those of the list bar Clemson, PSU and maybe Washington.
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They're all listed for a reason.
-Chris Peterson had Boise undefeated in year 1 as a first time HC, and took 3 years to get Washington rolling.
-James Franklin time @Vandy was listed to contrast his time @Penn.
-Same for Matt Rhule, because I don't know how you'd ignore what he's done at Baylor, and Temple is there to show he took 3 years both tries.
-Mark D'antonio is debatable I'll admit, but he's at the very least been to the playoffs.
-Kik Ferentz is debatable, but Iowa was terrible before he got there.
-SMU to pretty much credit Lashlee for the improvement.
-Mack Brown because UNC is in our division so its definitely relevant. Plus he has a Natty under his belt even though he never won it before Texas hired him.
-PJ Fleck @Minnesota is interesting as well, and that's in the Big 10, so nothing to scoff at.

This is to highlight how long it took a coach to have a relatively successful season. Not to compare the programs. OP suggests that we'll know enough about Diaz after year 2, but I disagree and think 2 years isn't enough(assuming they made changes) because success has taken a while for more than a few coaches.
 
Rellyrell said:
Saban: Previous HC Experience at MSU prior to LSU. Previous HC Experience at LSU and NFLprior to Bama.

Pete Carroll: Previous NFL HC Experience

Mack Brown: Previous HC Experience

Bob Stoops: First time HC; but was a National Championship AHC/DC at UF

Jimmy Johnson: Previous HC Experience

Urban Meyers: Previous HC Experience

Mark Richt; First time HC at UGA, but was a National Championship AHC/OC at FSU
At Miami, previous HC Experience

Tom Herman: Previous HC Experience

Context is everything
Click to expand...

You're arguing something that the OP didn't suggest. If I understand him correctly, he's not saying that he WILL be good in year 2; But that IF he is a good HC, we'll see by year 2. Context definitely is everything though, IF Manny turns this season into something to be proud about (ACC Championship and 10 wins at the very least)....then would that make it more impressive? Considering all these guys have the history they do. Or does the narrative than turn to "well, Mark Richt did it too and he never won a Natty".
 
Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
fickel was the interim coach and he stayed on as dc after urban was hired. that team was the only osu team from 2005 to present to Not win 10 games. you Can’t Shyet the bed with that roster and act like you’re a good coach. He might be Cincy good
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That Ohio State team was not very good, particularly on offense. Their QB was terrible.
 
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