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Year 2 Cristomoron versus Manny

armandose23 said:
I mention Kirby to highlight that he was left with a crazy talented team already by Richt with a top 3 recruiting class committed including the #1 QB in the nation (Jacob Eason). He had a backfield of Nick Chubb and Sony Michel walking through the door.

The increased resources are one thing. UGA under Richt still had more resources than Miami. Richt was the one that got most of their IPF built and wasn’t there to see it finished and then came and built ours.

The fact that it took him 6 years with the team and state of the program he was left is absolutely valid. 8 wins with that talent is an abomination. Much like 5 wins for us last year was an abomination.
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and then went to the NC game in year 2. on top of that, Eason got hurt and then beat out by Kirbys QB. Kirby also recruited the top classes in the country in 18 and 20 while richt recruited a top 3 class ONE time since 06.

Kirby is miles head of Mario and it isnt even close. Kirby was a first time HC when he took over UGA while Mario has been an HC three diff times (including miami)
 
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hoops156 said:
and then went to the NC game in year 2. on top of that, Eason got hurt and then beat out by Kirbys QB. Kirby also recruited the top classes in the country in 18 and 20 while richt recruited a top 3 class ONE time since 06.

Kirby is miles head of Mario and it isnt even close. Kirby was a first time HC when he took over UGA while Mario has been an HC three diff times (including miami)
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...and it still took him 6 years to win the big one. His initial success came off the talent Richt left for him and he kept it going/improved upon that. Same thing with Lanning at Oregon. You ever heard of the "rich getting richer"? Kudos to guys like Kirby and Lanning for having success and being good coaches but the state in which they inherited their respective programs is not the state that Mario inherited this one.

He can be doing better, but where he goes from here is what I will judge him on. Like I said, I'm a Mario guy. But my subjectivism in him has run out. Objective fandom and hope he turns it around is where I'm at moving forward.
 
armandose23 said:
...and it still took him 6 years to win the big one. His initial success came off the talent Richt left for him and he kept it going/improved upon that. Same thing with Lanning at Oregon. You ever heard of the "rich getting richer"? Kudos to guys like Kirby and Lanning for having success and being good coaches but the state in which they inherited their respective programs is not the state that Mario inherited this one.

He can be doing better, but where he goes from here is what I will judge him on. Like I said, I'm a Mario guy. But my subjectivism in him has run out. Objective fandom and hope he turns it around is where I'm at moving forward.
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the big one is going to the NC title game imo. Mario hasn't even led a team to the playoffs w a top 5 draft pick at QB.

you do know lanning cleaned the **** out of Oregon right? he literally brought in all new skill talent last year new RBs and a new QB along w cleaning up. @Rellyrell already disproved the Oregon Planning stuff w Mario. there are like 3 dudes left in the starting lineup that were from Marios time now.
 
hoops156 said:
the big one is going to the NC title game imo. Mario hasn't even led a team to the playoffs w a top 5 draft pick at QB.

you do know lanning cleaned the **** out of Oregon right? he literally brought in all new skill talent last year new RBs and a new QB along w cleaning up. @Rellyrell already disproved the Oregon Planning stuff w Mario. there are like 3 dudes left in the starting lineup that were from Marios time now.
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Again, for sake of this argument, it doesn't matter what Lanning did after being hired. Same way it doesn't matter what Kirby did after being hired at UGA. Mario was 10-2 in 2021 before getting hired by Miami. He went 12-2 in 2019. The perception around where Oregon was before Lanning took over is not what the perception around Miami was/still is. Richt averaged 10 wins at UGA he just couldn't win the big ones. That matters for recruiting as is evident by what Oregon and UGA continue to do recruiting wise and how recruits continue to treat Miami as a wait and see project that has to "prove to them" they should go there. It's like trying to find a CEO to come head up a multi-billion dollar company that is already profitable but you want to take it to the next level versus one that is losing money. Gotta make it profitable first.

My argument is not that Mario is better than anyone. Only way he can prove that is through winning. My argument is that the starting points for him, both at Oregon and Miami, versus the starting points for Kirby and Lanning are not the same.

What was FSU fans' perception of Norvell in his first two years vs these last two? Winning cures all. And like I've said multiple times, I will grade Mario based on what he does from this point forward, objectively.
 
Will the $upport keep coming with these results? Rather they put their $ to good use and get the basketball team back to the final 4
 
armandose23 said:
Again, for sake of this argument, it doesn't matter what Lanning did after being hired. Same way it doesn't matter what Kirby did after being hired at UGA. Mario was 10-2 in 2021 before getting hired by Miami. He went 12-2 in 2019. The perception around where Oregon was before Lanning took over is not what the perception around Miami was/still is. Richt averaged 10 wins at UGA he just couldn't win the big ones. That matters for recruiting as is evident by what Oregon and UGA continue to do recruiting wise and how recruits continue to treat Miami as a wait and see project that has to "prove to them" they should go there. It's like trying to find a CEO to come head up a multi-billion dollar company that is already profitable but you want to take it to the next level versus one that is losing money. Gotta make it profitable first.

My argument is not that Mario is better than anyone. Only way he can prove that is through winning. My argument is that the starting points for him, both at Oregon and Miami, versus the starting points for Kirby and Lanning are not the same.

What was FSU fans' perception of Norvell in his first two years vs these last two? Winning cures all. And like I've said multiple times, I will grade Mario based on what he does from this point forward, objectively.
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So what’s his grade today?
 
FL Cane said:
Manny's the reason why we had to almost completely turn over the roster in one year. The reason why this team was full of divas and cancers. His three years of mismanagement here did more damage than Randy or Golden did, combined.
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this. Golden left Richt alot of talent that was developed. his coaching scheme stunk.
if it wasnt for covid we dont get LT and JW.
 
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Angry Ibis said:
So what’s his grade today?
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I’d give him a C+ on his tenure so far based on what the program was talent/culture wise and what it is today. Also given last year’s recruiting class was #7.

This past weekend’s grade is a D only because the Defense played outstanding until they tired out and it unraveled at the end. Offense was **** poor, could’ve been schemed so much better even if we were going to run the ball the majority of the time and we’re more talented than they are.

Recruiting class is a B. We have some really nice pieces but we’re also missing out on some big time program changing level talent, some of which are in your own backyard.

Fair?
 
armandose23 said:
It's not difficult to be receptive to adapting if you're way in over your head and playing with wet matches trying to see which one ignites. The program Manny inherited from Richt is not the program Mario got from Manny. It cannot be stated enough that as a DC-LB/HC-DC-LB coach, Manny couldn't even recruit his own position and bring in top LBs.

Dawson is not Gattis. We've seen what the offense could be (see TAMU). Even last night, the passing concepts were more dynamic. TVD just didn't hit them or stayed in the pocket WAY too **** long and didn't slip out to create because he can't. The interception in the end zone was an open pass. He underthrew it. If he hit it, we'd be praising the play call. Thats not a Mario/Dawson thing. That's a TVD thing. A lot of times, the WRs didn't create space either.

Now what I will say is that the running concepts became stale. When we were running outside zones we were gaining chunk yardage and then all of a sudden we started trying to play between the tackles football. Those that can remember, it was the same exact thing as when we played Wisconsin in the Orange Bowl in 2017. We were gashing them to the outsides with speed and then we started trying to pound the football and the offense went stale. You can get more creative in the run game too, not just passing concepts. That IS a Mario/Dawson thing.

Ultimately, I've been a Mario guy for a long time. Still am. But the "progress" has to start showing as a complete program. I'm not going to blame him for a loss that your QB was responsible for 4 turnovers and could't hit guys on his own team, but I am going to blame him if he doesn't start taking the necessary steps towards improving upon these failures.
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Question Does this team not reflects the head coach?. The talent is there and there's no excuses for losing to Ga Tech and NC St. Now i'm to reframe from criticism of CMC till next yr. He should have a complete turn over with all of his players. He does look suspect bro if he brings DVD back. When you say stuff like this (Thats not a Mario/Dawson thing. That's a TVD thing) Not buying that. That's a coaches thing for keeping the same @ss inconsistent turn over machine in the game. The WR's did create space. Bottom line so far CMC isn't impressive. WE shall see next yr' cause this yr is a wash Few bright spots ' but straight garbage and it reflects the coach
 
armandose23 said:
I’d give him a C+ on his tenure so far based on what the program was talent/culture wise and what it is today. Also given last year’s recruiting class was #7.

This past weekend’s grade is a D only because the Defense played outstanding until they tired out and it unraveled at the end. Offense was **** poor, could’ve been schemed so much better even if we were going to run the ball the majority of the time and we’re more talented than they are.

Recruiting class is a B. We have some really nice pieces but we’re also missing out on some big time program changing level talent, some of which are in your own backyard.

Fair?
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In grading Mario’s tenure, I’d probably, put it at:

Coaching: F. We’ve had some really bad losses, clock management issues and decision making. The kneel alone is a fireable offense

Hiring: D. We’re approaching replacing the entire staff within his first 2 years. That’s abysmal, he takes too long to evaluate and the rolodex of interest in coaching with him was vastly overstated.

Recruiting/talent: I. This one is tough. He’s pegged as elite in this area, but we fell from Top 5 in his bump year, lost our #1 recruit after an embarrassing loafer photo, and this year’s class, while incomplete is sluggish… We cannot have that from a HC who needs elite talent to outpace his coaching ability. His portal usage is OK, but lacks elite difference makers at known positions of need.

Culture: C. The 2021 team did not give up on Manny. The 2022 team was a toxic culture including the coaching staff and players. Yesterday we witnessed sideline discontent. The team is undisciplined, plays without organization and appears lost at times.

Overall, Mario has been given more resources, staffing, a better AD, a VP of Football, etc than most previous Miami coaches combined, but his failure to adapt in multiple facets of the sport has lead to a rapid decline in trust and support.

People want him to succeed, but it’s tough to trust he will.

His CIS bully slurpers actually make it worse for Mario, as others then actual peel back Mario’s coaching numbers and they just simply aren’t as good as we would all like them to be…

If he doesn’t adapt, and each offseason allows for that opportunity, he’s going to continue to fail at Miami.
 
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nycane said:
this. Golden left Richt alot of talent that was developed. his coaching scheme stunk.
if it wasnt for covid we dont get LT and JW.
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Golden left that team loaded with talent. It’s a shame, because if he had a DC he would’ve been a decent coach.

Any Manny left Mario nothing. Just a bunch of pariahs and divas. Doesn’t excuse Mario’s inept coaching, but it’s not the same.
 
FL Cane said:
Golden left that team loaded with talent. It’s a shame, because if he had a DC he would’ve been a decent coach.

Any Manny left Mario nothing. Just a bunch of pariahs and divas. Doesn’t excuse Mario’s inept coaching, but it’s not the same.
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golden had some recruiting wins and he was recruiting with one hand tied behind his back
 
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TrumpyCane said:
TrumpyCane wants to know what people are smoking wanting Manny

Dude was a LB coach by trade who couldn’t even recruit LBs, his defense got progressively worse as his tenure continued

Worst case with Mario is he leaves a talented roster for the next guy
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Next guy?

You sure Mario is fireable?

And his recruiting needs to step back up to finish this class. He’s getting run by Memphis Mike and G5 Billy…👀
 
Angry Ibis said:
Next guy?

You sure Mario is fireable?

And his recruiting needs to step back up to finish this class. He’s getting run by Memphis Mike and G5 Billy…👀
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If he continues to **** the bed TrumpyCane thinks he will be fired, won’t be anytime soon but eventually
 
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