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Why was Butch Davis so avg at UNC with more draft picks than

all i know is butch posted a 72% winning pct here w/ 31 lost schollies.
all i know is that he had to be creative with scholarships and willed them to Big East titles.
all i know is the man went 4-0 here in bowl games.
all i know is we were screwed out of bcs title in 2000 while he was here.
all i know is that he is the last coach to take the browns to the playoffs, and this with no running game and super bust qb tim couch running the show.
all i know is that he inherited a unc team that avg. a 38% winning pct and gave them back-to-back-to-back winning seasons, something that hadn't happened in over a decade.
all i know is that butch is still very much apart of the college football landscape and is still constantly evaluating.

that's all i know.
 
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What Butch did was amazing and we owe him a lot ------- but as a game day coach, the guy was very average
 
I was looking through my old copy of Athlon 2010 college football preview and in the top position units section North Carolina was ranked number 1 in defensive line, number 1 in linebackers number and number 1 in secondary in all of college football. 2010 was suppose to be their breakout BCS bowl or national title contending season. But they had to suspend 3 of their 4 starting D linemen and all 4 of their secondary players for that game. So 7 starters from the strength of their team plus 6 backups were suspended to start the season. It's really pretty amazing that they were able to go 8-5.
 
Hurricane7 said:
I was looking through my old copy of Athlon 2010 college football preview and in the top position units section North Carolina was ranked number 1 in defensive line, number 1 in linebackers number and number 1 in secondary in all of college football. 2010 was suppose to be their breakout BCS bowl or national title contending season. But they had to suspend 3 of their 4 starting D linemen and all 4 of their secondary players for that game. So 7 starters from the strength of their team plus 6 backups were suspended to start the season. It's really pretty amazing that they were able to go 8-5.
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THIS
 
Hurricane7 said:
I was looking through my old copy of Athlon 2010 college football preview and in the top position units section North Carolina was ranked number 1 in defensive line, number 1 in linebackers number and number 1 in secondary in all of college football. 2010 was suppose to be their breakout BCS bowl or national title contending season. But they had to suspend 3 of their 4 starting D linemen and all 4 of their secondary players for that game. So 7 starters from the strength of their team plus 6 backups were suspended to start the season. It's really pretty amazing that they were able to go 8-5.
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Fantastic post. Please post more. We need more level headed clear thinkers around here.
 
sabrose said:
Butch went 8-5 with half his team suspended in his last year and won the coastal.They vacated it to us and we vacated it to GT. The majority of his talent was drafted in his last year that year.. With all his starters ita likely he had a top 10 team. People get on here and make statements off the top of their head without facts.
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Half his team suspended in his last year....you said that and want to say the last thing you said? Alrighty then!
 
Herman22 said:
millertime26 said:
He was taking over a 3-9 team and that hadn't been bowling in 2 years. Don't tell me nothing about Mack brown, North Carolina only got invited to one bowl game in the five years prior to Butch Davis and his last year when he had all those guys fully developed studs they got in trouble.
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what does the team prior to butch have to do witth he players he assembled and not doing squat with them?

Zero Coastal
Finished season unranked
More Talent then GOlden
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U know, for a new poster, u don't know ish, and seriously, I would advise you to stop commenting on Butch.

Here are the facts, Butch inherited a team who's avg. class ranking was 41st in the nation. That was his core.
It wasn't until 2009 where he had the 9# rank class in the nation
He didn't enjoy the success of that top class b/c in 2010, he loss 13 players, including his top 3 players on both offense and defense. That team won a bowl game.
He was let go thereafter as sacrificial lamb to protect their precious b ball team.
He was later apologized to by the AD for such an erroneous termination.

So instead of spewing ur own agenda, how about u get some facts first b4 speaking about Butch, chump.
 
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Herman22 said:
millertime26 said:
He was taking over a 3-9 team and that hadn't been bowling in 2 years. Don't tell me nothing about Mack brown, North Carolina only got invited to one bowl game in the five years prior to Butch Davis and his last year when he had all those guys fully developed studs they got in trouble.
Click to expand...

what does the team prior to butch have to do witth he players he assembled and not doing squat with them?

Zero Coastal
Finished season unranked
More Talent then GOlden
Click to expand...

Hurricane7 said:
I was looking through my old copy of Athlon 2010 college football preview and in the top position units section North Carolina was ranked number 1 in defensive line, number 1 in linebackers number and number 1 in secondary in all of college football. 2010 was suppose to be their breakout BCS bowl or national title contending season. But they had to suspend 3 of their 4 starting D linemen and all 4 of their secondary players for that game. So 7 starters from the strength of their team plus 6 backups were suspended to start the season. It's really pretty amazing that they were able to go 8-5.
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Thank you!
 
Butch Davis is as good as it gets when comes to recruiting and identifying talent. But as other posters have said, people forget that he was never considered a good game day coach.

His record vs. ACC opponents at UNC 2007 - 2010:

Miami: 3-1
Duke: 4-0
BC: 2-0
Clemson: 1-0
FSU: 1-1
MD: 1-1
GT: 1-3
VT: 1-3
UVA: 1-3
NC St: 0-4
Wake: 0-1
Pitt: 0-1 (in the BE at the time)

That's not very good.

I think Butch is an emotional hire, because of the the talent he put together 98-2002, and he always beat Miami when he was at UNC. I get the nostalgia. But you could definitely argue the 98 & 99 Miami teams underachieved. And if you look at the whole body of work, you'd say his UNC teams underachieved.

Butch seems like the type that will recruit well, and we'd be "better" if we hire him, but we won't be "Miami". I see him getting us to 8-10 wins a year and be top 25, but not 11-12 wins and be top 10.
 
bshaw28 said:
Butch Davis is as good as it gets when comes to recruiting and identifying talent. But as other posters have said, people forget that he was never considered a good game day coach.

His record vs. ACC opponents at UNC 2007 - 2010:

Miami: 3-1
Duke: 4-0
BC: 2-0
Clemson: 1-0
FSU: 1-1
MD: 1-1
GT: 1-3
VT: 1-3
UVA: 1-3
NC St: 0-4
Wake: 0-1
Pitt: 0-1 (in the BE at the time)

That's not very good.

I think Butch is an emotional hire, because of the the talent he put together 98-2002, and he always beat Miami when he was at UNC. I get the nostalgia. But you could definitely argue the 98 & 99 Miami teams underachieved. And if you look at the whole body of work, you'd say his UNC teams underachieved.

Butch seems like the type that will recruit well, and we'd be "better" if we hire him, but we won't be "Miami". I see him getting us to 8-10 wins a year and be top 25, but not 11-12 wins and be top 10.
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Bro, are you kidding me right now? Lol.

North Carolina is not remotely a football power. That school is ALL basketball. The team he took over had only one winning season in the last 6 years. The team he had a combined winning pct of 38% over the last six years before he got there. As soon as he took them over, the culture there changed immediately. I don't think you or anyone else truly realize how bad UNC football was before he got there. lol...

I'll just tell you this, sometimes individuals will use basic internet knowledge to base their facts. Once you peel back the layers, you will see what a fantastic job Butch did at UNC. Once the ball was starting to roll, the scandal broke out and he was let go....and for the record, UNC has been dirty for a while and Butch had nothing to do w/ that.
 
Rellyrell said:
Herman22 said:
millertime26 said:
He was taking over a 3-9 team and that hadn't been bowling in 2 years. Don't tell me nothing about Mack brown, North Carolina only got invited to one bowl game in the five years prior to Butch Davis and his last year when he had all those guys fully developed studs they got in trouble.
Click to expand...

what does the team prior to butch have to do witth he players he assembled and not doing squat with them?

Zero Coastal
Finished season unranked
More Talent then GOlden
Click to expand...

U know, for a new poster, u don't know ish, and seriously, I would advise you to stop commenting on Butch.

Here are the facts, Butch inherited a team who's avg. class ranking was 41st in the nation. That was his core.
It wasn't until 2009 where he had the 9# rank class in the nation
He didn't enjoy the success of that top class b/c in 2010, he loss 13 players, including his top 3 players on both offense and defense. That team won a bowl game.
He was let go thereafter as sacrificial lamb to protect their precious b ball team.
He was later apologized to by the AD for such an erroneous termination.

So instead of spewing ur own agenda, how about u get some facts first b4 speaking about Butch, chump.
Click to expand...

wrecked
 
Hurricane7 said:
I was looking through my old copy of Athlon 2010 college football preview and in the top position units section North Carolina was ranked number 1 in defensive line, number 1 in linebackers number and number 1 in secondary in all of college football. 2010 was suppose to be their breakout BCS bowl or national title contending season. But they had to suspend 3 of their 4 starting D linemen and all 4 of their secondary players for that game. So 7 starters from the strength of their team plus 6 backups were suspended to start the season. It's really pretty amazing that they were able to go 8-5.
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Problem is we are betting that he might have had a great 2010 season...... Im not gonna give him credit for A"MIGHt HAVE" for 2010

What I am gonna give him credit for is a subpar 2009 season which was his third year and he finished a disappointing 8-5 despite coming into the year ranked... He also hired ****** OC which is a sign og a bad Head Coach....
 
bshaw28 said:
Butch Davis is as good as it gets when comes to recruiting and identifying talent. But as other posters have said, people forget that he was never considered a good game day coach.

His record vs. ACC opponents at UNC 2007 - 2010:

Miami: 3-1
Duke: 4-0
BC: 2-0
Clemson: 1-0
FSU: 1-1
MD: 1-1
GT: 1-3
VT: 1-3
UVA: 1-3
NC St: 0-4
Wake: 0-1
Pitt: 0-1 (in the BE at the time)

That's not very good.

I think Butch is an emotional hire, because of the the talent he put together 98-2002, and he always beat Miami when he was at UNC. I get the nostalgia. But you could definitely argue the 98 & 99 Miami teams underachieved. And if you look at the whole body of work, you'd say his UNC teams underachieved.

Butch seems like the type that will recruit well, and we'd be "better" if we hire him, but we won't be "Miami". I see him getting us to 8-10 wins a year and be top 25, but not 11-12 wins and be top 10.
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You must have gone to the Fraulden School of Statistical Cherry Picking.

By the way, Butch isn't angling for the UNC gig, just Miami.

 
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TRock305 said:
canesbaby said:
I'm definitely in the camp with the OP. I have lots of questions about what Butch could really do here. I know all of us remember the unreal run from 2000 through 2001 but that's a once in a lifetime type of thing. Some of the posters on this board are forgetting about what an awful game day coach Butch was back in the day. Count me in the camp of not being completely sold on Butch being the guy especially with the UNC stats as posted above.
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I've posted similar concerns many times. Butch has a history of amassing lots of talent, occasionally staggering talent, and then underachieving. I remember the frustration of watching his teams in the late 90's well. But, I think I'm coming around. While Herman is intriguing and seems to have a solid attitude, he's been a head coach for less than a year. Coker looked like the real deal at that point in his HC career as well. Fuente is impressive, but the lack of defense is a concern (though, there were certainly times when I wondered where Butch's defenses had gone too, cough, 66-13). I'll confess, I don't know the college landscape well enough to identify the other up and comers. Hue Jackson sounds good as well, but probably has a pro gig lined up. Chip Kelly? Forget it.

Butch is a known commodity. With him, at least you know his teams will be tough and won't get pushed around. In a couple of years, he is likely to have them competing for championships; I'm not at all confident that he'll ever win one, but he can get them close. Not so sure about this with someone like Herman or Fuente.

And I don't even want to hear about Butch's former underlings as candidates. We wouldn't even know who Schiano, Mario, or Chud are if it weren't for Butch, and none have been particularly successful since leaving the program. And, out of them, Mario would be the worst. These guys are "Butch + Risk;" substantial risk. Why even look at them when Butch wants the job?

Butch's success in the future would, of course, depend on cooperation by the UM administration. They will need to be more flexible on admissions standards and in helping Butch retain his studs once they're admitted. I'm concerned that he won't have the same support that he had in the 90's or at UNC in that regard. Let's face it, Butch is not an x's and o's guy. He will flounder without the horses to work with. In order for him to be successful, the admin. needs to be sick of losing--but how can you be otherwise after living through the Golden Era?

Another advantage with Butch is that they can hire him now, and he can get a head start on locking down next year's class. No, he won't be on the sidelines this season, but he could be assembling the staff, providing predictability, and establishing relationships with recruits. That definitely beats a mad scramble with someone hired in December or, God forbid, January.

Butch certainly is not "a god." He definitely would generate excitement, though; and he gives UM a solid chance of returning to prominence. I'm not against giving him another shot.
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Remember... In the late 90s, he operated under severe roster sanctions...
 
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