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When did the culture Problems start?

Mackmiller974 said:
Does anyone have any idea?
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There is an incredibly easy answer to this.

The tipping point was the 2004 season, because by this point you had lost a lot of the Butch recruited AND COACHED players and you also lost Chudzinski as the OC. Coker wasn't perfect, but at least he had 2 UM alums as his OC and DC and once Coker started to lose coaches from the Butch era, he didn't replace them with equal/superior guys.

Also, by this point, you had a couple of significant changes on the recruiting side. First, this was the rise of the "internet ratings systems" and the Rivals/Scout class rankings. A lot of our coaches started to recruit from the office, instead of getting out and seeing kids in person. Also (as has happened at other times in UM's history), we had a lot of recruits who came to Miami EXPECTING to go undefeated, and who didn't understand how to work hard to create their own legacies. The kids who just assumed that they would be playing for conference and national championships.

By the time that Coker realized that things were getting away from him (including having to replace Greg Mark mid-season, though there were also some personal issues involved there), it was really too late. We had entitled players, we did not have the same strong coaching staff, and we didn't have anyone who knew how to restore things the way that Butch knew how to restore things.

Also, in complete honesty...2004 was the year we signed Willie Williams. Now, I don't hate the kid, but the way that he turned recruiting into such a clown show, with no real repercussions (we still admitted him) was a serious turning point. People want to yap about "Manny shouldn't have taken JT-4 back", but it was much worse what happened with WW.

2004. Willie Williams. Dan Werner. Entitled players. Seventh Floor Crew didn't happen until 2005, but the players and attitude that led to that was already in place in 2004.

PS - 2004 recruiting class was ranked #3 by Rivals, and then 2005 immediately went down to #10. 2006 class was ranked #14. 2007 class was ranked #22. Yes, Randy got us back to #2 in 2008 with a MASSIVE signing class, and we have not been back to the Top 5 since.
 
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JeffreyG said:
I thought it was Payton who threw the pass?
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I recall them trying to make cases for the Heisman. I could just be remembering wrong. But I think we all recall Dorsey shaking like a leaf in the end zone before getting picked off.
 
TheEye said:
I recall them trying to make cases for the Heisman. I could just be remembering wrong. But I think we all recall Dorsey shaking like a leaf in the end zone before getting picked off.
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This. They wanted to get him his “heisman moment”
 
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canesplaymaker said:
Lol. That was off the top of my head. 2005 LSU.
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This. LSU punched us in the mouth and showed everyone that this was a soft *** team...

Since then we’ve been doing nothing but comparing these players to past greats instead of building up to be the next great one instead of letting them ride off the ghosts of the past

Credit to manny I thought his comments about sticking to how the old canes played offensive ball was a death sentence to living in the past... this school was built on pushing the envelope and being revolutionary
 
The downfall started in the 2002 FSU game when the Noles ran for almost 300 yards and UM needed Wide Left 1 to win. The following week WVU ran for nearly 400 yards but the Canes still won. Excuses made. Rebounded by dominating Tennesse at their house, but something still wasn't right. The team lacked the focus and leadership of the 2001 NC team.

i.e., Ed Reed, and others
 
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Peach Bowl against LSU. They put a beating on us and we were never the same. Miami football was making a sandwich and handing it to the team that just ****ed us in the *** on our way out with no cab fare.
 
Mackmiller974 said:
Does anyone have any idea?
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In the QB room..I’d point to the departure of Kaaya..then it was down hill in talent with Malik although I don’t think he had real character issues..then perry and jarren were not a good mix..that’s a position where it’s a natural leadership role and can be positive or cancerous..the defense never seemed to have those issues
 
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Ed Reed told y’all overall when it started..I’d say November of 2005 leading up to the Ga tech upset
 
TheEye said:
I recall them trying to make cases for the Heisman. I could just be remembering wrong. But I think we all recall Dorsey shaking like a leaf in the end zone before getting picked off.
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I just remember for sure it was picked and returned to the 1 yard line.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
There is an incredibly easy answer to this.

The tipping point was the 2004 season, because by this point you had lost a lot of the Butch recruited AND COACHED players and you also lost Chudzinski as the OC. Coker wasn't perfect, but at least he had 2 UM alums as his OC and DC and once Coker started to lose coaches from the Butch era, he didn't replace them with equal/superior guys.

Also, by this point, you had a couple of significant changes on the recruiting side. First, this was the rise of the "internet ratings systems" and the Rivals/Scout class rankings. A lot of our coaches started to recruit from the office, instead of getting out and seeing kids in person. Also (as has happened at other times in UM's history), we had a lot of recruits who came to Miami EXPECTING to go undefeated, and who didn't understand how to work hard to create their own legacies. The kids who just assumed that they would be playing for conference and national championships.

By the time that Coker realized that things were getting away from him (including having to replace Greg Mark mid-season, though there were also some personal issues involved there), it was really too late. We had entitled players, we did not have the same strong coaching staff, and we didn't have anyone who knew how to restore things the way that Butch knew how to restore things.

Also, in complete honesty...2004 was the year we signed Willie Williams. Now, I don't hate the kid, but the way that he turned recruiting into such a clown show, with no real repercussions (we still admitted him) was a serious turning point. People want to yap about "Manny shouldn't have taken JT-4 back", but it was much worse what happened with WW.

2004. Willie Williams. Dan Werner. Entitled players. Seventh Floor Crew didn't happen until 2005, but the players and attitude that led to that was already in place in 2004.

PS - 2004 recruiting class was ranked #3 by Rivals, and then 2005 immediately went down to #10. 2006 class was ranked #14. 2007 class was ranked #22. Yes, Randy got us back to #2 in 2008 with a MASSIVE signing class, and we have not been back to the Top 5 since.
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The cultural thing is a very important piece in and of itself. But you also cannot understate how bad Coker failed in recruiting after 2002 at key positions:

Wide Receiver:
2003: Darnell Jenkins
2004: Lance Leggett, Khalil Jones
2005: None
2006: Sam Shields, George Robinson

Five wide receivers in four recruiting cycles. By comparison, Miami has signed 13 wide receivers in between 2017 - 2020 (a number somewhat inflated by players also leaving early). The end result was six scholarship receivers by the start of the 2006 season.

Quarterbacks:
2003: Kyle Wright
2004: Kirby Freeman
2005: None
2006: None

Two quarterbacks over four years! By comparison, we've signed six quarterbacks in the last four years.
 
Culture problems aren't unique to us. It's happened to virtually every program that's had a multiple year run of excellence.

Miami has great run from 2000 to 2002. Wins title in 2001, goes undefeated the next year, loses NC game and four years later we were under .500
USC goes on epic run from 2003-2007. Wins final title in 2004, goes undefeated the next year, loses NC game and five years later are 7-6
Turds win two titles from 2005-2008. By 2010 Meyer is out the door and they are 7-6 by 2011, under .500 by 2012.
FSU goes 39-3 from 2012-2014. Wins title in 2013, goes undefeated the next year, loses NC and are under .500 within four years.
Now it's Clemson who won two titles in three years. Won title last year, went undefeated this year and lost in the NC game. Their story is still incomplete.

Only constant has been Bama who has benefited from great coaching from Saban and maybe most importantly-no NCAA investigations.

Seems like every time a team dominates, the following classes feel like they're going to be great just because they put on the uniform. Player apathy, NCAA drama, coaching defections or a combination of all of those factors have made sustaining greatness very difficult to do.
 
jmcanes22 said:
Peach Bowl against LSU. They put a beating on us and we were never the same. Miami football was making a sandwich and handing it to the team that just ****ed us in the *** on our way out with no cab fare.
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No. The loss to GT is why we were there. That was far worse.
 
3GC said:
To show the world that we were a kinder, gentler Miami..
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that was a shalala and jenn strawley idea, to remove the masculinity from the football, part of the war on gender by extreme liberals. what kind of message does acting and posing like f@gs send to a football team.
 
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