What if the ACC went to 16 Teams?

[RightSaidFred]

Do you actually think there is a measurable or real difference in those rankings, say between a school ranked 40 and one ranked 55?

Keeping in mind that the criteria used for ranking, and also their weighting, is purely subjective.

I think you can use those rankings to get a general idea of academic rank, but to view it as a discrete numerical certainty is just folly. Maybe it’s better to look in terms of groups of 10 or 15 to be on the list because otherwise I don’t think it means much of anything.

For example, look where Purdue was ranked. Are you kidding me? Purdue? Do people realize what type of academic institution Purdue is and the type of reputation they have, especially in engineering and the sciences.

If you’re looking at two resumes, both with 4.0 average one at Purdue and one at UFåg, which one is going to impress you the most. Yet one school is ranked 10 spots higher than the other.

There are some posters on here that just want to shlt on Miami academically. I can show you the world rankings where Miami is ranked higher than a lot of schools that are above it in the US News and World report ranking.

Only 10% of their weighted rankings are based on measurable academic performance metrics related to selectivity, exclusivity and academic performance of incoming freshmen. That should tell you all you need to know right there.

This is pretty much true, as I see it.

US News rankings for universities matter about as much as JD Powers rankings matter for cars - that's to say... not very much at all. What matters a lot more is the brand. Just as nobody is going to think Ford is a better brand of car than Mercedes just because JD Powers ranks them higher in some category, nobody is going to think Florida is a better school than Purdue just because US News puts out some list.

What matters is the brand.

In my humble opinion, Miami's brand academically isn't as good as some people here think it is, and it isn't nearly as bad as other people think it is. I've always thought that what they need to do is establish a niche, pour a ton of research and resources in to that niche, and start to develop a reputation around it. Better to be elite at something than "just OK" at a lot of things.

Just as Stanford, Berkeley, and CalTech built their reputation by servicing the needs of Silicon Valley, and the Ivy League schools made their reputation by servicing the needs of the big cities of the Northeast, Miami should focus on what goes on in South Florida commercially and demographically, and the school should build its reputation that way.

Could be a lot of things. They could build a brand around the med school, for example. South Florida has a greater need for quality healthcare access than any other region in the country, due to the high number of retirees in the area. Why not use that?

I would find some sub-specialty within the healthcare space - maybe something to do with cardiology or anything required by an aging population - and I would really focus on building the school's academic brand around that.

There are other ways they could go. Law is one - especially if they focus on international commerce or something leveraging the international flavor of the city. Financial services is another.... sort of.... although the city of Miami is still not a major hub in that space. Growing, though.

And they really need to leverage the Latin American connection. There are some seriously smart people coming out of Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, etc.... who go to local schools for undergrad and then to elite global universities for graduate school. We should be getting those kids in as undergrads. UM should be the gateway for the brightest 18-year-olds in Latin America who want to study internationally.

There's a lot of things they could do. I hope one day UM gets a president with a real vision for the school, because it has a ton of potential. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Empirical Cane]

New conference membership has only 1 criteria: TV market share.

Either your a national brand or you fill a gap in a key area the conference doesn't have now.

It is the ONLY reason Big 10 poached Maryland from ACC.

ACC could look at Temple or Rutgers (more the Scarlet Knights than the owls).

They could also tear off "Atlantic Coast" and try and poach Houston or SMU.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

This is pretty much true, as I see it.

US News rankings for universities matter about as much as JD Powers rankings matter for cars - that's to say... not very much at all. What matters a lot more is the brand. Just as nobody is going to think Ford is a better brand of car than Mercedes just because JD Powers ranks them higher in some category, nobody is going to think Florida is a better school than Purdue just because US News puts out some list.

What matters is the brand.

In my humble opinion, Miami's brand academically isn't as good as some people here think it is, and it isn't nearly as bad as other people think it is. I've always thought that what they need to do is establish a niche, pour a ton of research and resources in to that niche, and start to develop a reputation around it. Better to be elite at something than "just OK" at a lot of things.

Just as Stanford, Berkeley, and CalTech built their reputation by servicing the needs of Silicon Valley, and the Ivy League schools made their reputation by servicing the needs of the big cities of the Northeast, Miami should focus on what goes on in South Florida commercially and demographically, and the school should build its reputation that way.

Could be a lot of things. They could build a brand around the med school, for example. South Florida has a greater need for quality healthcare access than any other region in the country, due to the high number of retirees in the area. Why not use that?

I would find some sub-specialty within the healthcare space - maybe something to do with cardiology or anything required by an aging population - and I would really focus on building the school's academic brand around that.

There are other ways they could go. Law is one - especially if they focus on international commerce or something leveraging the international flavor of the city. Financial services is another.... sort of.... although the city of Miami is still not a major hub in that space. Growing, though.

And they really need to leverage the Latin American connection. There are some seriously smart people coming out of Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, etc.... who go to local schools for undergrad and then to elite global universities for graduate school. We should be getting those kids in as undergrads. UM should be the gateway for the brightest 18-year-olds in Latin America who want to study internationally.

There's a lot of things they could do. I hope one day UM gets a president with a real vision for the school, because it has a ton of potential. But that's just my opinion.

Bascom Palmer is considered to be the best ophthalmology hospital in the US, possibly the world. Infectious diseases is highly regarded, as is trauma. There are other areas as well. I’m not delusional, it would be difficult for UM to achieve the academic reputation of a Duke in my lifetime, but they can come closer to it through medical research, IMO...in spite of some poor recent investments.

It’s been my experience that in the business/employment world Miami has a very good reputation. The “how does it look on the resume” world. So, no, it doesn’t look like an ivy or sub-ivy, but IMO it now has a reputation closer to the “public Ivies” ie, Michigan, UNC, UCLA, PSU, Texas (Austin) etc, certainly UFailure ranks no higher to prospective employers

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

If you ever get a chance break down the US news and world report criteria. A lot of it has to do with funding and finances. When you have 10% of the weight going to the academic strengths of incoming freshmen that tight there ought to tell you something. And you and I have been in the workforce at a high-level for a few years. Forget Miami, look where Purdue was ranked. That’s a joke. I know that in the scientific and engineering world Purdue might not be MIT, but it’s just a level below. Ridiculous.

I knew it was a low percent, but I had no idea it was as low as 10%. That just shows how terrible these rankings are. I would much rather go to a school that looks good on a resume and is respected by future employers, than one that gets a high ranking by US news. I agree the Purdue ranking is ridiculous and goes to show how awful these rankings are.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Bascom Palmer is considered to be the best ophthalmology hospital in the US, possibly the world. Infectious diseases is highly regarded, as is trauma. There are other areas as well. I’m not delusional, it would be difficult for UM to achieve the academic reputation of a Duke in my lifetime, but they can come closer to it through medical research, IMO...in spite of some poor recent investments.

It’s been my experience that in the business/employment world Miami has a very good reputation. The “how does it look on the resume” world. So, no, it doesn’t look like an ivy or sub-ivy, but IMO it now has a reputation closer to the “public Ivies” ie, Michigan, UNC, UCLA, PSU, Texas (Austin) etc, certainly UFailure ranks no higher to prospective employers

Very accurate. From my experience the rankings(this is exclusive to finance) are Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, Yale, and Stanford in the first tier. Then you have the rest of the Ivys, Duke, Vandy, ND, UVA, Northwestern, etc. Then the next tier down is where Miami would fall.

 

[BucCANEers]

UCF in the Coastal and Temple in the Atlantic. No need picking ND because they will never become a full FB member.

UCF will never get in. Miami and FSU would block it. ACC would prob do what the SEC did and dip into the Texas market and get a team from that state

 

[Legendary1]

I think the idea of bringing Navy in is only if that is what it takes to get ND in. Navy in ACC would make their game with ND a conference game. This, ND would still have 4 out of conference games to play with (or 3 if the conference went to a 9 game schedule which I assume it would with 16 teams). That may help get ND in. I know many don’t want to do anything that would benefit ND but realistically, you bring in Navy if that’s what it takes to get ND.
Note: You don’t bring Navy in hoping it gets ND. You bring them in together at same time. Otherwise, Navy is out.

 

[LeavingJesusland]

New conference membership has only 1 criteria: TV market share.

Either your a national brand or you fill a gap in a key area the conference doesn't have now.

It is the ONLY reason Big 10 poached Maryland from ACC.

ACC could look at Temple or Rutgers (more the Scarlet Knights than the owls).

They could also tear off "Atlantic Coast" and try and poach Houston or SMU.

the "There Is Some Body Of Water Closeby Conference"

 

[omaha]

I would bring in Houston and SMU for their respective markets.

 

[Canedude08]

Do you actually think there is a measurable or real difference in those rankings, say between a school ranked 40 and one ranked 55?

Keeping in mind that the criteria used for ranking, and also their weighting, is purely subjective.

I think you can use those rankings to get a general idea of academic rank, but to view it as a discrete numerical certainty is just folly. Maybe it’s better to look in terms of groups of 10 or 15 to be on the list because otherwise I don’t think it means much of anything.

For example, look where Purdue was ranked. Are you kidding me? Purdue? Do people realize what type of academic institution Purdue is and the type of reputation they have, especially in engineering and the sciences.

If you’re looking at two resumes, both with 4.0 average one at Purdue and one at UFåg, which one is going to impress you the most. Yet one school is ranked 10 spots higher than the other.

There are some posters on here that just want to shlt on Miami academically. I can show you the world rankings where Miami is ranked higher than a lot of schools that are above it in the US News and World report ranking.

Only 10% of their weighted rankings are based on measurable academic performance metrics related to selectivity, exclusivity and academic performance of incoming freshmen. That should tell you all you need to know right there.

The typical Miami "Fan" couldn't find Richter with a map, and a P-100 showing them the way. I'll never for the life of me understand why certain vocal elements of our fanbase have a beef with the school striving to be elite academically. It's like they believe that it is a zero sum game, that you can't have nationally competitive athletics, with world class academics.

 

[Canedude08]

The ACC sucks.

Here's what I would do to improve it..... ZERO percent chance this ever happens.

I would KICK OUT Wake Forest, Virginia, NC State, and Boston College.

I would add Notre Dame (full time), Army, Navy, and Penn State.

Then you have a conference with some football tradition and some exciting rivalry games built in.

I would rearrange the brackets.. and Miami would be in the same bracket as FSU, Notre Dame, Navy, Pitt, and Virginia Tech.

I would get rid of the "crossover rivalry" crap. Put rivals on the same side of the bracket. Have one LESS ACC game per year, so that everyone can play a more national schedule.

Finally, I would move the ACC head office to New York, and I would move the championship game to Hard Rock Stadium. If it's good enough for the Orange Bowl and it's good enough to play national championship games there... it's good enough for our conference. No more tobacco road garbage. Literally zero people give a single **** about the state of North Carolina. They should not be running this conference.


Like I said.... ZERO chance of anything like this ever happening.... but it WOULD make this crappy conference at least somewhat interesting to watch from a football perspective. As it it.... playing Duke, Virginia, and Pitt every single year is just dumb and boring.

In a perfect world, Miami, FSU, and Florida should all be in the same conference. It's stupid that they aren't.

You would kick out NCState and Virginia, who give you something in basketball and baseball, and add Army and Navy. Army and Navy gives you NOTHING in any sport. Absolutely NOTHING. Army and Navy would most likely finish near the bottom of the divisions every year, because they are limited in who they can recruit. Go look at the typical Army schedule, it's pathetically weak, and in most years they are barely decent with that weak schedule. Go look at Navy's schedules when they were rolling, it was pretty awful with Notre Dame being the only major program listed. It was usually a mix of low tier MAC and old Big East schools, with the occasional game versus a power.

 

[Canedude08]

I knew it was a low percent, but I had no idea it was as low as 10%. That just shows how terrible these rankings are. I would much rather go to a school that looks good on a resume and is respected by future employers, than one that gets a high ranking by US news. I agree the Purdue ranking is ridiculous and goes to show how awful these rankings are.

The goal of undergrad is to get the best education you can, for the lowest price possible. Only a dumbass would go into significant debt, for a BS/BA. If you are intelligent enough to get paid to attend an elite school, then go for it. If not, hit the best in state school you can get into. If you are the kind of kid that knows how to play the game, and maxes out, you will get noticed no matter where you go.

 

[RightSaidFred]

You would kick out NCState and Virginia, who give you something in basketball and baseball, and add Army and Navy. Army and Navy gives you NOTHING in any sport. Absolutely NOTHING. Army and Navy would most likely finish near the bottom of the divisions every year, because they are limited in who they can recruit. Go look at the typical Army schedule, it's pathetically weak, and in most years they are barely decent with that weak schedule. Go look at Navy's schedules when they were rolling, it was pretty awful with Notre Dame being the only major program listed. It was usually a mix of low tier MAC and old Big East schools, with the occasional game versus a power.

First, like 99 percent of Americans, I don’t care about basketball or baseball.

Second, college football is all about tradition. Army and Navy might not be good, but they are what college football is about

 

[kalinis]

1. Do you think this is even possible?

2. What 2 teams would you have join? Do you force Notre Dame into being a full time member. Or do you tell Notre Dame to take the rest of your teams and **** off and bring in 2 other teams as full members?

3. What 2 teams would you bring in to make it 16?

well it has to be teams that fit your blueprint and can bring in tv dollars for market. to me that narrows it down a bit. Houston is one id go after is a big tv market out of your normal area but tv wise fits, west virginia would be a good get from big 12 if could pull them, nd would be great and gonna have to join a conference some day. but if w virginia/nd aren't options then i go Houston due to tv market recruit base and ucf as they are probably 2 biggest schools not in a conference outside of boise state which is way to far away to be in acc

 

[Canedude08]

First, like 99 percent of Americans, I don’t care about basketball or baseball.

Second, college football is all about tradition. Army and Navy might not be good, but they are what college football is about

Tons of people love the Harvard vs. Yale game too, guess what? NO ONE IS SUGGESTING TO ADD THEM TO THE ACC EITHER. Collegiate athletic conferences are business arrangements, and schools that provide next to nothing in any revenue sports, and may be a net negative aren't going to get added to a conference worth a ****. You may not care about basketball and baseball, but the TV networks do, athletic directors do, because those are in essence the only two sports you can get money from outside of football. ESPN cares, because they need programming the other 6-7 months of the year college football isn't being played.

 

[QuattroCane]

First, like 99 percent of Americans, I don’t care about basketball or baseball.

Second, college football is all about tradition. Army and Navy might not be good, but they are what college football is about

I have a ton of respect for the service academies, but the interest in them would last about one round through the conference. Do you honestly think anyone is interested in Miami vs Navy, much less Wake vs Navy?

 

[Drewny1]

First, like 99 percent of Americans, I don’t care about basketball or baseball.

Second, college football is all about tradition. Army and Navy might not be good, but they are what college football is about

College Football hasnt been about tradition for about 10 years now.

Also alot of people in America care about baseball and basketball.

 

[RightSaidFred]

I have a ton of respect for the service academies, but the interest in them would last about one round through the conference. Do you honestly think anyone is interested in Miami vs Navy, much less Wake vs Navy?

More interested in that game than Miami vs Virginia, or Miami vs Duke.

Also, the Notre Dame vs Navy game is one of the most storied rivalries in college football, and per my OP, I’d only want to add Army/Navy if Notre Dame came along

 

[RightSaidFred]

College Football hasnt been about tradition for about 10 years now.

Also alot of people in America care about baseball and basketball.

Yeah but not even close to the level they care about college football.

And yeah...college football’s tradition is what makes it so cool to watch for most of the country. The people turning it in to a semi-pro league are ruining the sport.

If college football is just NFL-lite, why not just watch the NFL? There has to be something special and unique about the college game, and there is....tradition

Fact is, Virginia and Navy both suck....who cares if one sucks slightly more? At least one of them brings something interesting to the conversation. Virginia is just ****** and bland.

 

[RightSaidFred]

Tons of people love the Harvard vs. Yale game too, guess what? NO ONE IS SUGGESTING TO ADD THEM TO THE ACC EITHER. Collegiate athletic conferences are business arrangements, and schools that provide next to nothing in any revenue sports, and may be a net negative aren't going to get added to a conference worth a ****. You may not care about basketball and baseball, but the TV networks do, athletic directors do, because those are in essence the only two sports you can get money from outside of football. ESPN cares, because they need programming the other 6-7 months of the year college football isn't being played.

I guarantee Navy brings more revenue than Virginia.

And NOBODY watches college baseball.

Basketball...I’ll give you, but you can’t say it’s anywhere near the level of college football from a revenue or interest perspective.