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What Does Elite Mean?

Handsome Squidbum said:
Then it seems to me OP is off base in saying that Michigan's OL and DL are both full of elite players.
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Talking individual players & what determined elite. Michigan’s OL and DL are championship caliber as well as secondary, so suppose that qualifies as elite. Will let others decide.
 
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Duke was elite. He could change the game with one cut and took over games (see VT, BC, Virginia, etc.) on his own

Jaquan Johnson actually was very **** close too on second thought. Made plays all over the field, created huge turnovers in big games and was always in the right place. The smartest Safety we’ve had since the early 2000s. He should’ve been an AA
 
Njoku could have a case.

Using NFL impact and longevity is an easy way to determine who’s been elite. It’s not flawless as some very good college players don’t translate and other guys peak in the pros. Based on the NFL, not sure we can say we’ve had any elite guys. Even the guys who have hung around the league for more than a cup of coffee haven’t been league leaders or at the top of their positions for multiple years
 
McGahee2TheHouse said:
I will never understand our fans who think talent trumps all and who conveniently forget that Miami was sparked by talent AND massive innovation as far as coaching. Howard, Jimmy, and Dennis were all actual good football coaches who each brought something to the table as far as X’s and O’s

Butch is the only coach who solely relied on talent and that is simply not sustainable.
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Talent doesn't matter if your scheme is ****. If you can't impose you will or take advantage of a disadvantage then no talent doesn't matter much.
 
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Felonious Monk said:
I was implying that I had DMed you a picture of my genitalia, which is elite.
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Season 8 Eww GIF by One Chicago


@JamesQuall
 
McGahee2TheHouse said:
Lol yes the roster hasn’t been where it needs to be.

But at the end of the day, if you don’t have an elite head coach, nothing matters. And Mario is not it.

Since you want to bring up Michigan, please don’t ignore the fact that Harbaugh is their head coach and don’t ignore the massive success he had coming into Michigan.

Also, don’t ignore the fact that Michigan doesn’t recruit at the level of the elite programs. It’s almost as if coaching matters
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Boom 💥… Thank you, and we are still far away from it.
 
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nvlahos said:
Duke was elite. He could change the game with one cut and took over games (see VT, BC, Virginia, etc.) on his own

Jaquan Johnson actually was very **** close too on second thought. Made plays all over the field, created huge turnovers in big games and was always in the right place. The smartest Safety we’ve had since the early 2000s. He should’ve been an AA
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We all loved Duke and he was without a doubt an impact player and difference maker but I’m not sure if he was elite. I think as Miami fans we want him to be elite but he falls in that same category as Freeman for me, whereas Dalvin was Elite. From the 2011-2014 crop of SFLA RBs which was real deep, to me Dalvin was elite, an argument for Michel is there as well but without a doubt his teammate Chubb was elite. After that it’s Duke, and ask yourself, if Duke was a Nole or Gator, would have called him elite?
 
umfire2005 said:
That’s 3 if I’m generous. In 15 years. Kind of shocking.
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Yeah that was immediately what came to my mind; something we haven't seen here for two decades. As an OL aficionado, I think you were a little generous. We have an above average OL, not elite. But if they continue to focus on the group and an OC that will play call more to their strengths, it has a chance of developing into one.
 
umfire2005 said:
I think by elite I mean one of the three best at their position. Something like that. A kid that requires game planning and constant watching.

I think units can be elite without necessarily an elite player and that’s where’d I’d lump Michigan’s OL and DL.

Anyway good discussion and I think that it’s kind of amazing that we have this hard of time to name names, particularly at RB and DB
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Another level to this discussion, or a different approach to the broader premise would be to identify who the athletic freaks have been the past 15 years. Under Mario we are starting to recruit a different body type and a different athlete which hasn't been the case since the Butch days.

Seantrell Henderson (while entering college) was one of those freaks, but we haven't had many of those types on the roster.

As Dwinstitles has hammered consistently on this board, not all 5 stars are the same and not all 4 stars are the same...meaning a Mark Pope 5 star (frail athlete) is not an athletic freak. Ahmmon Richards was an athletic freak.

James Williams at 6'5 200lbs looks the part, but lacked the short area movement, explosiveness, quickness, or speed to be anything more than a guy who occasionally flashed and looked good coming off the bus.
 
Artist Formerly Known As said:
Njoku could have a case.

Using NFL impact and longevity is an easy way to determine who’s been elite. It’s not flawless as some very good college players don’t translate and other guys peak in the pros. Based on the NFL, not sure we can say we’ve had any elite guys. Even the guys who have hung around the league for more than a cup of coffee haven’t been league leaders or at the top of their positions for multiple years
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I think you're misunderstanding the topic here. What a player does in the NFL has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
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Perryman was not an ELITE player.

Duke and Miller were pretty close. But they were never considered a top 3 back in college. Now Dalvin Cook... That's what an elite RB looked like.

Richards.... Man... We would never know. Probably the closest to actually being elite on offense.

GR15 and Phillips.... Yes.
 
Great to see you posting Fire. You are absolutely correct, we are very very far away from 2001 talent right now and have been since then.

No one from Mario's first class looks elite. I had early hopes for Kelly. Bain and Francis could get there. Still too early to write some kids off like Samson and the LBs. Even elite guys take a redshirt at many positions.

You don't need elite guys to get to the ACCCG, and you don't need a lot of elite guys to win it. For me, that's always been step 1. Make sure you have high quality at every position so you can win 10 games or more. Then the elite kids will come. Especially with the program's new financial commitment.
 
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Brains said:
Lamar Miller
Ahmonn Richards
Jaelan Phillips
Denzel Perryman

Very good but not elite:

Duke Johnson
Artie Burns
Deon Bush
Jaquan Johnson
Allen Hurns
Seantrel Henderson
Jon Feliciano
Sheldrick Redwine
Reyshawn Jenkins
Greg Rousseau
Sean Spence
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I would put Rousseau in the elite category. Only had him for 1 full szn tbh
 
Brains said:
Agree to disagree. Johnson was used more heavily, and relied upon, but no one is going to convince me that he was a better or more talented player than Miller- at any level.

This is a well-worn debate for me, so I'm not going back and forth on it.
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Duke had better vision, better change of direction, quicker feet, better receiver out of the backfield, just as fast and he was a lot stronger than his size. I’m not trying to convince you it’s just facts, Duke ran for 150 yards in his first ever collegiate game. Duke was used a lot because he was that good lol, the facts are there
 
Hurricane23 said:
Duke had better vision, better change of direction, quicker feet, better receiver out of the backfield, just as fast and he was a lot stronger than his size. I’m not trying to convince you it’s just facts, Duke ran for 150 yards in his first ever collegiate game. Duke was used a lot because he was that good lol, the facts are there
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LOL
 
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