forums

What Does Elite Mean?

Advertisement
umfire2005 said:
Great post. I’m referring to college only. I think that units can be elite without an elite player though one to anchor the group is important.

Recency bias? Possibly, certainly Michigan is more group elite than individual elite.

We’ll see how UMich players do on the pro side.
Click to expand...
Understood and agreed you typically need an anchor. The recency bias I was referring was last night they played lights out. I admit I did not watch much of Mich football all year so I am not sure if the group was "elite" all year or simply played an "elite" game. I know stats dont always tell the whole story but for example I see they gave up 4 sacks to Indiana and 3 to purdue. Leading rusher had only 44 yards against Purdue. Against Indiana leading rusher only had 58 yards and Mccarthy only threw for 200. Unsure if that was an OL issue but if your QB is getting hit a bunch and your RBs arent getting more than 60 yards I tend to think that reflects poorly on OL.

As far as elite "groups" for UM I would say that DL (i think 2018?) with WIllis, Rosseau, Garvin, Joe Jackson, Ford, Nesta, Patchan, Maybe RJ? he may have left but I would say that was pretty close to elite as a group and for sure played elite games where they just took over. I mean when 4 DL get drafted that all played together that usually means someone saw something even if a majority didnt do much in the NFL.
 
Advertisement
Elite ish in the last 15 years at the college level.
GR
Phillips
Artie Burns

Even those are reaches. At the same time I think elite to me is the best of the best of the difference makers. Willie Anderson was elite. JNS was elite. I think difference makers would make for better discussion here as we have had some of those such as Duke and Perryman.
 
Cookie917 said:
Do you think some of this might be recency bias however with seeing Michigan? And are you referring to elite in college or elite as a whole career? For example I would say Reggie Bush was pretty **** elite in college but in the NFL he was decent, I would not put him in an elite NFL category. Jimmy Graham is the inverse, he was pretty mid to bad here for his one year but his first few years in the NFL I would say he was elite.

First off let me start by saying I agree with you. Last night the OL and DL were elite. played off the charts. I also agree UM has lacked true difference makers in 10-15 years but this could be two different conversations and comparing apples to oranges.

Lets see where those boys on Mich OL and DL end up in a few years. Say 5 years down the road and 2-3 guys on each side of the line just flame out, no one likely remembers them as elite, but here you crowned the OL/DL as elite . Me personally I wouldnt say guys like Feliciano or Linder were "elite" here but they were ultimately very good and looked worse here because the unit was not elite, and we did not win ishbut both of them went on to have very successful NFL careers and I think Linder signed the highest contract ever at the time for a C so at that time I would say he was an elite center.

That is where I think there is a breakdown in this analysis that you started your inquiry talking about the OL/DL group as a whole then parlayed that into individual players. An even better example, I think you would agree the 2000-2001 Hurricane OL was elite correct? Of course, we had elite players such as McKinnie (NFL and College) and Romberg (in college). But would you call Martin Bibla, Greg Laffere, or Sherko Haji-Rasouli elite? I would not personally but that GROUP was elite as you put it with Michigans.
Click to expand...
I think in the scope of this discussion it needs to be mainly focused on college production and draft position which relates to their talent level then. Linder and Feliciano were difference makers for us but not elite.
 
umfire2005 said:
I mentioned after the Louisville game that Miami continues to lack difference makers, either individuals or position groups. I think that some Miami fans have forgotten what elite looks like, as that term gets thrown around a lot here. A fairly well known coach once told me you need 3 or 4 elite guys or 2 or 3 elite groups to truly have a shot at winning a championship.

Michigan had 2 elite groups, OL and DL.

Have we had 3 elite players or groups in the last 15 years combined?

Rb: Maybe Duke Johnson
TE: No
Wr: No
OL: OL
DE: Maybe one of Phillips or Rousseau
DT: No
LB: No
Corner: No
Safety: No


That’s 3 if I’m generous. In 15 years. Kind of shocking.

RB is the most egregious. We have a “stacked room”. No we don’t. We have a room full of decent backs.

Mario is raising the talent floor and that’s great. Bain looks like a difference maker. Mario is signing some big names too. But he has to remind Miami fans what elite players looks like. Because the talent deficit is far larger than most would like to admit.

**Coach was Mark Stoops**
Click to expand...

How do you define elite? If you want to go by "college elite" as in could be starters on any team in the country. Just from memory...

RB- Travis Homer
TE- Njoku, Herndon
WR- Richards, though i would also say Berrios would be wanted by basically every team
OL- Flowers, Henderson.. Probably 4 or 5 guys here
DE- Phillips, Rosseau. Vernon is borderline, I think he didn't give as much effort as he could but he had the talent
DT - Willis. The dude was a one man wrecking crew.
LB -? Some pretty good ones though prob not elite Grace, Spence, Perryman
Corner - Burns
S - Johnson was college elite
 
Advertisement
Handsome Squidbum said:
How do you define elite? If you want to go by "college elite" as in could be starters on any team in the country. Just from memory...

RB- Travis Homer
TE- Njoku, Herndon
WR- Richards, though i would also say Berrios would be wanted by basically every team
OL- Flowers, Henderson.. Probably 4 or 5 guys here
DE- Phillips, Rosseau. Vernon is borderline, I think he didn't give as much effort as he could but he had the talent
DT - Willis. The dude was a one man wrecking crew.
LB -? Some pretty good ones though prob not elite Grace, Spence, Perryman
Corner - Burns
S - Johnson was college elite
Click to expand...
Bunch of those, a majority were difference makers but not elite.
 
Advertisement
Handsome Squidbum said:
You'd have to explain the difference to me. Best definition I could think of is could they be starters on any team in the country.
Click to expand...
Difference makers fall into the category of, they could start for any team in the country, they can be less though. Elite means you are the very best of the best. Marvin Harrison Jr is elite. Brock Bowers is elite. Elite is 100% overused on this site. CJ Stroud and Bryce Young were elite.
 
Last edited:
Advertisement
What we've had are difference makers over the years. No one has truly been elite, so much so that some of our fans are misusing the title in this thread. There are usually prerequisites of an elite player; they are near otherwordly in school AND they get drafted high.

Lamar Miller - 1918 yards and 15 TDs in two years at UM. Jonathan Taylor for comparison had 1977 yards and 13 TDs as a true freshman! Lamar was taken in the 4th and Taylor was taken in the 2nd.

Duke Johnson - if you know me you'd know that Duke is my favorite Cane ever. I view him as one of maybe three elite players we've had since I've been a fan. 3519 rushing yards and 26 TDs is nothing to scoff at BUT another South Florida native by the name of Dalvin Cook had 4464 rushing yards and 46 TDs in a similar timespan. Duke was taken in the 3rd while Dalvin was taken in the 2nd.

Compare our past/current players to some of the best tape you've seen over the years to get a better outlook. Marcus Peters, Lavonte David/Luke Kuechly, Myles Garrett, Jonathan Taylor, Quinnen Williams/Jeffrey Simmons, CeeDee Lamb, Kyle Pitts, Malik Hooker, Honey Badger/Jamal Adams, etc.
 
bobbydigius said:
Difference makers fall into the category of, they could start for any team in the country, they can be less though. Elite means you are the very best of the best. Marvin Harrison Jr is elite. Brock Bowers is elite. Elite is 100% overused on this site. CJ Stroud and Bryce Young were elite.
Click to expand...
Very true. Elite players are rare and when they’re elite you know it.
 
I think by elite I mean one of the three best at their position. Something like that. A kid that requires game planning and constant watching.

I think units can be elite without necessarily an elite player and that’s where’d I’d lump Michigan’s OL and DL.

Anyway good discussion and I think that it’s kind of amazing that we have this hard of time to name names, particularly at RB and DB
 
Advertisement
Back
Top