Want To Win A Title?

[Glow]

I completely disagree. Do you know what the chances are that a team hits on all of their recruits at this rate when not having Top 10 classes. It’s almost impossible.

The more logical and rational explanation is that their coach recruits players of a certain type, size, demeanor, and then he and his staff get the most out of them through great coaching, scheme fit, and play calling.

I’ve already seen several posts on social media lauding their defensive scheme/play calling, and saying that it’s NFL level with the concepts that they’re running.

Whether you believe it or not, our Canes have recruited just as well, but have not put our players in the best position to win repeatedly. This problem has been plaguing our team for almost 2 decades.

This game isn’t complicated. Recruit talented players and scheme to their greatest strengths, while not shooting yourself on the foot with horrible game day coaching and poor decision making and play calling. All of our coaches during the last 2 decades have tried to fit squares into circles and have failed miserably while trying to reinvent the wheel.

Top 10 is an arbitrary cutoff, Michigan classes were still good (47 bluechips on roster) they were not Rice classes but that is besides the point which is that you don't need to assign backward-looking odds or theorycraft re: the question of whether players with game tape are good when you have the tape of them matching up in big games and you can go read what scouts are saying about the players.

It's not either/or. Michigan's split zone and simulated pressure scheme was confusing QBs and their defensive line was winning 1-on-1 matchups at the point of attack on the line of scrimmage and their players on the starting defensive line were better players than the players that started on the line for UGA and Bama this year. Michigan getting pressure against UW with a 4-man rush wasn't galaxy brain scheme stuff that part was line talent.

Check back to see the NFL grades for Michigan's defensive starters this year when the time comes, especially on the line and DB1.

This idea that Michigan's defense was out there with no talent is not necessary to make any broader point I dunno why people feel the need to push that idea in order to argue that coaching matters, a team with NFL coaches that committed no penalties and communicated well and rarely busted coverages or missed tackles was clearly well-coached. Michigan switched from base man coverage because Ohio State's roster full of NFL WRs was always cooking Michigan's secondary back in the Urban Meyer days so clearly there is a coaching component in the overall story.

 

[WanderFranco]

That must be why Texas A&M has done so well the last few years. They've pulled in great recruiting classes.

And they would be worse without those players. I’m still waiting for the list of coaches who just “outcoach” everyone. No matter who you try to name, that guy doesn’t win when the talent level drops.

 

[nobeastofburden]

Master class of coaching, admittedly, took him longer to win one than I thought it would. Finally got enough speed at skill positions to get over the top.

 

[Felonious Monk]

And they would be worse without those players. I’m still waiting for the list of coaches who just “outcoach” everyone. No matter who you try to name, that guy doesn’t win when the talent level drops.

And as Texas A&M shows, talent can't make up for a lack of coaching.

 

[CaneTheGaytors]

Top 10 is an arbitrary cutoff, Michigan classes were still good (47 bluechips on roster) they were not Rice classes but that is besides the point which is that you don't need to assign backward-looking odds or theorycraft re: the question of whether players with game tape are good when you have the tape of them matching up in big games and you can go read what scouts are saying about the players.

It's not either/or. Michigan's split zone and simulated pressure scheme was confusing QBs and their defensive line was winning 1-on-1 matchups at the point of attack on the line of scrimmage and their players on the starting defensive line were better players than the players that started on the line for UGA and Bama this year. Michigan getting pressure against UW with a 4-man rush wasn't galaxy brain scheme stuff that part was line talent.

Check back to see the NFL grades for Michigan's defensive starters this year when the time comes, especially on the line and DB1.

This idea that Michigan's defense was out there with no talent is not necessary to make any broader point I dunno why people feel the need to push that idea in order to argue that coaching matters, a team with NFL coaches that committed no penalties and communicated well and rarely busted coverages or missed tackles was clearly well-coached. Michigan switched from base man coverage because Ohio State's roster full of NFL WRs was always cooking Michigan's secondary back in the Urban Meyer days so clearly there is a coaching component in the overall story.

I never said that Michigan had no talent. I clearly stated in my earlier posts that they have talented players.

What I did say was that you can’t move the goalposts and try to say that Michigan has top of the line talent like Baga, Taint, Jawja, Texas, aTm, Oregon, etc.

That coaching staff is top notch. They get the most out of their players. The QB will not be an NFL starter. Edwards is an NFL back, and Corum might find a role as a 3rd down back on an NFL roster. The place where they always have the most talent is on OL and DL, and they have some talent at LB, DB and S.

Give that same roster to Mario and our staff, and he most likely loses anywhere from 3 to 5 games.

 

[Glow]

I never said that Michigan had no talent. I clearly stated in my earlier posts that they have talented players.

What I did say was that you can’t move the goalposts and try to say that Michigan has top of the line talent like Baga, Taint, Jawja, Texas, aTm, Oregon, etc.

That coaching staff is top notch. They get the most out of their players. The QB will not be an NFL starter. Edwards is an NFL back, and Corum might find a role as a 3rd down back on an NFL roster. The place where they always have the most talent is on OL and DL, and they have some talent at LB, DB and S.

Give that same roster to Mario and our staff, and he most likely loses anywhere from 3 to 5 games.

What I would agree with is Michigan doesn't have overwhelming talent that wins by default without good coaching.

But acknowledging Michigan's DL was better than Bama's this year shouldn't be any harder than acknowledging that Washington's QB and WRs were better than Bama's this year.

I think for Miami what Michigan shows is that you can evaluate and develop a roster capable of competing for a title in the 10-15 class rank range and that you don't need an over the top stacked average recruiting class of rank 1.5 to have a shot at winning.

 

[U2Cane]

I love how people reach for outliers and think it's some kind of valid argument. Yes, TCU had a magical season, but look what happened when all their seniors left, they reverted right back to mediocrity, because they can't successfully reload high end talent. Michigan doesn't recruit as well as Alabama or Georgia and due to how top heavy the B1G is, they don't have to, they tower over the rest of that conference talent wise(Outside of Ohio State), because most of their peeer schools recruit like trash. It also helps to have a guy that was inches away from a Super Bowl leading your program. That said, I wouldn't be shocked if Michigan took a step back this fall, because they are going to lose a fair amount of experienced talent. What happens when Michigan loses Harbaugh and a less talented coach takes over, with the talent on the roster? Exactly.

The whole Mario experiment is about SUSTAINABILITY. If we want an elite program that lasts, and isn't a "One Year Wonder", Miami will have to stack classes, develop that high end incoming talent along with hitting the portal for needs as they arise. That's pretty much the only proven way to do this thing. Look at Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas, etc. Guess what those programs do year in and year out? They recruit, and outside of Texas, they have been in the hunt for years on end. Yes, you do need quality coaching, and that's something that can be corrected by building a strong staff. That's on your program CEO, and to be honest, Mario has had a mixed bag in regards to hiring. He's had some terrible ones(Gattis), some meh(Dawson) and a some strong ones(Guidry). The question is whether he can find the combo that works, and whether he can build a system that limits his shortcomings(Game management). If Miami is beating teams by a score regularly and not in dogfights against weaker teams, it won't matter if Mario botches a TO or gets flustered and doesn't call victory formation. Keep in mind, Jim Harbaugh, a **** good coach has just as many titles as Gene Chizik and Ed Orgeron. It's a lot easier to be the last team standing if you stack high end talent, compared to hoping you hit on an elite coach.

100 % correct.

 

[CaneTheGaytors]

What I would agree with is Michigan doesn't have overwhelming talent that wins by default without good coaching.

But acknowledging Michigan's DL was better than Bama's this year shouldn't be any harder than acknowledging that Washington's QB and WRs were better than Bama's this year.

I think for Miami what Michigan shows is that you can evaluate and develop a roster capable of competing for a title in the 10-15 class rank range and that you don't need an over the top stacked average recruiting class of rank 1.5 to have a shot at winning.

That was exactly my point. But you need a competent coaching staff to achieve that.

 

[sdaly12]

The bold part is absolutely not true. On D, I’d say:

Guidry - very strong at Xs & Os. Better teacher than recruiter…and I think he’s a very good teacher.

JT - very strong as both a teacher & a recruiter.

Coach Joe - was previously taking heat for not being a great recruiter. I don’t know all the details on who led the recruitment for J. Scott & A. Jones (and the NC State kid from the Portal who was previously a Top-150 type) but have to give Coach Joe his props on the recruiting front for this most recent class. Our Rush D was also stout for most of the yr (with a few wobbles against UNC in the 2nd half, UL and Rutgers). Were missing talent like LT at DT against Rutgers. It showed. UNC was mostly one bad half. He seems solid as a developer.

Coach D Nich - potential star on the Defensive staff. LBs were greatly improved yr-o-yr under his tutelage. Massive difference on Run D from one yr to the next. Recruiting some studs at LB such as Aldarius Hayes & Melendez (really excited about both of them).

Addae: very good teacher/technician. He’s a better Developer than he is recruiter.

I think we have very good teachers on the Defensive side of the ball.

OL: Mario & Mirabal are among the best in the nation at coaching up the OL. Have crushed it in recruiting also.

RB: Harris has recruited well & his RBs have been solid. Grade TBD as a Developer only because he hasn’t been here that long but most people around the program seem high on him.

TE: recruiting good. Development as blockers good. Want to see our stable of TEs play a much more active role in the passing game next yr & thrive. Honestly not happy here that our TEs didn’t play a much bigger role. They must going forward. They made the Offense look light yrs better & more balanced against BC.

WR: Beard is a very strong technician and a great teacher. Crushing it in recruiting & in development.

OC/QB: idk re recruiting. Seems solid as a QB coach.

How can one possibly come to the conclusion that we have “all talent acquisition type assistants”? There are some great teachers on the staff (including two of the very best for OL). We have great teachers at every level of the Defense and the results proved that as we made a major jump in the defensive rankings. We have at least three great teachers on offense.

Real E-Z 12 -13 in 2 years, You are what your record says you are thats a 500. outfit,