Want To Win A Title?

[CaneTheGaytors]

…better address the corching issues this off-season.

According to many posters here on CiS, in order to win a National Championship you have to get top talent (top 5 recruiting classes) for several classes.

Michigan and Washington (and TCU last season) blew this narrative out of the water.

Michigan’s average composite recruiting class score the past five years is 13th.

Washington’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 25th.

TCU’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 30th.

That’s 3 out of the last 8 CFP teams (including the 2 finalists this season and the eventual champion) that have been on the low end talent wise according to the recruiting sites.

Coaching and play calling matters more than ever. Thanks to the transfer portal and NIL, there is more and more parity in the sport. Talent is obviously still important, but without competent coaching and play calling, we will not have a winning program again.

Mario better address these issues during the offseason, or his tenure here will be short.

…and for the “it took Harbaugh 9 years to win a title at Michigan” crowd, Harbaugh went 20-6 his 1st two seasons at Michigan, and was a proven college and NFL head coach. Comparing Cristobal to him is both asinine and disingenuous.

 

[mcnaire2004]

 

[CaneTheGaytors]

View attachment 277715

 

[miamimike305]

you gotta hit on the recruits and you gotta coach. Who would’ve thought.

 

[CaneTheGaytors]

you gotta hit on the recruits and you gotta coach. Who would’ve thought.

According to many posters here on CiS, it’s Jimmy’s & Joe’s over X’s and O’s.

The narrative on here has been, just get top 5 classes and even Mario won’t be able to mess that up.

That is completely false. Our coaching better improve dramatically in all phases, or next season we will see more of the same.

…also, it would be great if we could find a quality QB. But as I’ve stated many times before, great QB’s will not come to Miami until Mario decides to become more of a CEO, and stops trying to run a system that doesn’t fit well with South Florida athletes.

 

[Rellyrell]

…better address the corching issues this off-season.

According to many posters here on CiS, in order to win a National Championship you have to get top talent (top 5 recruiting classes) for several classes.

Michigan and Washington (and TCU last season) blew this narrative out of the water.

Michigan’s average composite recruiting class score the past five years is 13th.

Washington’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 25th.

TCU’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 30th.

That’s 3 out of the last 8 CFP teams (including the 2 finalists this season and the eventual champion) that have been on the low end talent wise according to the recruiting sites.

Coaching and play calling matters more than ever. Thanks to the transfer portal and NIL, there is more and more parity in the sport. Talent is obviously still important, but without competent coaching and play calling, we will not have a winning program again.

Mario better address these issues during the offseason, or his tenure here will be short.

…and for the “it took Harbaugh 9 years to win a title at Michigan” crowd, Harbaugh went 20-6 his 1st two seasons at Michigan, and was a proven college and NFL head coach. Comparing Cristobal to him is both asinine and disingenuous.

Harbaugh is currently making slightly less than Mario on paper, but he has incentives that kick in based upon performance/results on the field.

In his 1st four years at UofM, he took them to 2 NY6 bowls. Not only was he 20-6 his first 2 yrs, but was 38-14 his first 4 yrs there (.730)

Those first 4 yrs brought good gesture, and the next two looked bleak, particularly Covid 2020. From 2021-present, UofM have been a perennial CFP participant. I would argue, that if Harbaugh didn’t start off solid, by the time he got to 2020, he would’ve been fired vs. given an ultimatum to earn his $$ moving fwd.

I know it was touchy after yr 5; but, years 1-4 helped tremendously in extending that grace.

 

[Canedude08]

…better address the corching issues this off-season.

According to many posters here on CiS, in order to win a National Championship you have to get top talent (top 5 recruiting classes) for several classes.

Michigan and Washington (and TCU last season) blew this narrative out of the water.

Michigan’s average composite recruiting class score the past five years is 13th.

Washington’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 25th.

TCU’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 30th.

That’s 3 out of the last 8 CFP teams (including the 2 finalists this season and the eventual champion) that have been on the low end talent wise according to the recruiting sites.

Coaching and play calling matters more than ever. Thanks to the transfer portal and NIL, there is more and more parity in the sport. Talent is obviously still important, but without competent coaching and play calling, we will not have a winning program again.

Mario better address these issues during the offseason, or his tenure here will be short.

…and for the “it took Harbaugh 9 years to win a title at Michigan” crowd, Harbaugh went 20-6 his 1st two seasons at Michigan, and was a proven college and NFL head coach. Comparing Cristobal to him is both asinine and disingenuous.

I love how people reach for outliers and think it's some kind of valid argument. Yes, TCU had a magical season, but look what happened when all their seniors left, they reverted right back to mediocrity, because they can't successfully reload high end talent. Michigan doesn't recruit as well as Alabama or Georgia and due to how top heavy the B1G is, they don't have to, they tower over the rest of that conference talent wise(Outside of Ohio State), because most of their peeer schools recruit like trash. It also helps to have a guy that was inches away from a Super Bowl leading your program. That said, I wouldn't be shocked if Michigan took a step back this fall, because they are going to lose a fair amount of experienced talent. What happens when Michigan loses Harbaugh and a less talented coach takes over, with the talent on the roster? Exactly.

The whole Mario experiment is about SUSTAINABILITY. If we want an elite program that lasts, and isn't a "One Year Wonder", Miami will have to stack classes, develop that high end incoming talent along with hitting the portal for needs as they arise. That's pretty much the only proven way to do this thing. Look at Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas, etc. Guess what those programs do year in and year out? They recruit, and outside of Texas, they have been in the hunt for years on end. Yes, you do need quality coaching, and that's something that can be corrected by building a strong staff. That's on your program CEO, and to be honest, Mario has had a mixed bag in regards to hiring. He's had some terrible ones(Gattis), some meh(Dawson) and a some strong ones(Guidry). The question is whether he can find the combo that works, and whether he can build a system that limits his shortcomings(Game management). If Miami is beating teams by a score regularly and not in dogfights against weaker teams, it won't matter if Mario botches a TO or gets flustered and doesn't call victory formation. Keep in mind, Jim Harbaugh, a **** good coach has just as many titles as Gene Chizik and Ed Orgeron. It's a lot easier to be the last team standing if you stack high end talent, compared to hoping you hit on an elite coach.

 

[Glow]

outliers

Michigan is very well-coached but they were also the best line of scrimmage team this year so if people are making odds on how often a team recruiting 13ish is gonna be better on the LOS than Bama and UGA I would say don't expect that to happen very often.

Ole Miss next year should be a good test of how this new NIL environment allows a scheme coach at a program recruiting 20ish to supplement with impact portal guys to legit challenge for a title.

DeBoer might be the best coach in CFB so we can just ignore his outcomes as outliers for any argument unless the argument is finding a pile of money to hire DeBoer.

I would like to see more than merely "put your hand in the dirt and beat the man in front of you, the end" type coaching in any case.

 

[jakeman1]

Not making comparisons, and not claiming this will happen, but there is hope. At least recruiting shouldn't be an issue. I think we have at minimum two years before there is any chance for a change, so hopefully Mario figures some things out so it's not too painful.

This is where Jim Harbaugh was starting in 2017. After the 2020 season, Harbaugh was given an extension. Michigan didn't just lose, they lost badly. Message boards must have been hopping during this stretch, also including the six consecutive losses to OSU. I can't imagine what it would have looked like here if he was given an extension after two bad seasons like that.

"Michigan's 2020 season was significantly shortened due to the Big Ten Conference's policies regarding the COVID-19 pandemic.[285] On November 14, Michigan hosted Wisconsin and Michigan suffered its largest halftime deficit at home since Michigan Stadium opened in 1927 (28–0), as well as its largest home loss (49–11) since 1935.[286][287] On November 28, 2020, Michigan hosted Penn State and for the first time in Michigan football history, lost to a team that was 0–5 or worse.[288] Michigan was winless at home during the 2020 season, marking the first time in program history that Michigan did not win any games at home.[289]"

2017	Michigan	8–5	5–4	4th (East)	L Outback
2018	Michigan	10–3	8–1	T–1st (East)[347]	L Peach†	14	14
2019	Michigan	9–4	6–3	3rd (East)	L Citrus	19	18
2020	Michigan	2–4	2–4	T–5th (East)

 

[Dghustla]

I love how people reach for outliers and think it's some kind of valid argument. Yes, TCU had a magical season, but look what happened when all their seniors left, they reverted right back to mediocrity, because they can't successfully reload high end talent. Michigan doesn't recruit as well as Alabama or Georgia and due to how top heavy the B1G is, they don't have to, they tower over the rest of that conference talent wise(Outside of Ohio State), because most of their peeer schools recruit like trash. It also helps to have a guy that was inches away from a Super Bowl leading your program. That said, I wouldn't be shocked if Michigan took a step back this fall, because they are going to lose a fair amount of experienced talent. What happens when Michigan loses Harbaugh and a less talented coach takes over, with the talent on the roster? Exactly.

The whole Mario experiment is about SUSTAINABILITY. If we want an elite program that lasts, and isn't a "One Year Wonder", Miami will have to stack classes, develop that high end incoming talent along with hitting the portal for needs as they arise. That's pretty much the only proven way to do this thing. Look at Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Texas, etc. Guess what those programs do year in and year out? They recruit, and outside of Texas, they have been in the hunt for years on end. Yes, you do need quality coaching, and that's something that can be corrected by building a strong staff. That's on your program CEO, and to be honest, Mario has had a mixed bag in regards to hiring. He's had some terrible ones(Gattis), some meh(Dawson) and a some strong ones(Guidry). The question is whether he can find the combo that works, and whether he can build a system that limits his shortcomings(Game management). If Miami is beating teams by a score regularly and not in dogfights against weaker teams, it won't matter if Mario botches a TO or gets flustered and doesn't call victory formation. Keep in mind, Jim Harbaugh, a **** good coach has just as many titles as Gene Chizik and Ed Orgeron. It's a lot easier to be the last team standing if you stack high end talent, compared to hoping you hit on an elite coach.

Great post…what most here willfully forget is that there are more than one blueprint to winning a title and building a progrum.

 

[DTP]

Georgia would have blown out either of those teams though.

 

[JD08]

The Jimmies

According to many posters here on CiS, it’s Jimmy’s & Joe’s over X’s and O’s.

The narrative on here has been, just get top 5 classes and even Mario won’t be able to mess that up.

That is completely false. Our coaching better improve dramatically in all phases, or next season we will see more of the same.

…also, it would be great if we could find a quality QB. But as I’ve stated many times before, great QB’s will not come to Miami until Mario decides to become more of a CEO, and stops trying to run a system that doesn’t fit well with South Florida athletes.

Jimmies and Joe's is the only way we'll get past that 10 win barrier. We're not outcoaching anyone so we'll have to out-talent them.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

…better address the corching issues this off-season.

According to many posters here on CiS, in order to win a National Championship you have to get top talent (top 5 recruiting classes) for several classes.

Michigan and Washington (and TCU last season) blew this narrative out of the water.

Michigan’s average composite recruiting class score the past five years is 13th.

Washington’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 25th.

TCU’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 30th.

That’s 3 out of the last 8 CFP teams (including the 2 finalists this season and the eventual champion) that have been on the low end talent wise according to the recruiting sites.

Coaching and play calling matters more than ever. Thanks to the transfer portal and NIL, there is more and more parity in the sport. Talent is obviously still important, but without competent coaching and play calling, we will not have a winning program again.

Mario better address these issues during the offseason, or his tenure here will be short.

…and for the “it took Harbaugh 9 years to win a title at Michigan” crowd, Harbaugh went 20-6 his 1st two seasons at Michigan, and was a proven college and NFL head coach. Comparing Cristobal to him is both asinine and disingenuous.

I agree with you on all points, Cristobal isn't going anywhere for quite some time so the question is if Cristobal is able to upgrade his staff to a level that will have us competitive without having to field a team with 5 stars 3 deep at every position. Let's say Cristobal is able to significantly upgrade his offensive staff. Will he stay out of the way? Actually I should have led with the question of whether or not Mari will be able to attract a great OC and QB coach given his reputation as a micromanager. The good thing about our situation as it relates to Mario is that it is becoming increasingly clear what it is that is holding us back if we don't address it. That is the quarterback situation which we haven't been able to address in a satisfactory manner because of the perception of Mario that is out there. If he didn't see it before he should see it clearly now.

 

[DoctorKrazey]

You touch on some good points, but I’d also like to bring up another that oftentimes goes overlooked. I would argue that many of the truly great teams were/are player led, every bit as much as they are coach led. This story gets told a lot, but in the 21’ playoff semifinal where Michigan got absolutely destroyed by Georgia, Corum/McCarthy and other Michigan players were in tears on the sideline and said, “We’ll be back and we’re going to win this thing.” Coaching matters. Recruiting matters. Strength & Conditioning, culture, etc. all this stuff matters. But, look back at all those great Miami teams and it was about leadership, competition, refusing to let your teammates down, constantly striving to improve and get better, etc. Until THAT changes it’s all for naught. When you have a great program, or culture, the coaches don’t need to constantly be watching over you and making sure things are being done right. The players know what needs to be done and do it. I actually think we’re headed in that direction now with guys like Bain,etc. but for many, many years this program was infested with a selfish, me-first mentality.

 

[sdaly12]

According to many posters here on CiS, it’s Jimmy’s & Joe’s over X’s and O’s.

The narrative on here has been, just get top 5 classes and even Mario won’t be able to mess that up.

That is completely false. Our coaching better improve dramatically in all phases, or next season we will see more of the same.

…also, it would be great if we could find a quality QB. But as I’ve stated many times before, great QB’s will not come to Miami until Mario decides to become more of a CEO, and stops trying to run a system that doesn’t fit well with South Florida athletes.

i wonder if he can make that change ??? also staff needs to be a mix of teachers and recruiters.... we seem to have all talent acquisition type assistants

 

[gacaneaddict]

…better address the corching issues this off-season.

According to many posters here on CiS, in order to win a National Championship you have to get top talent (top 5 recruiting classes) for several classes.

Michigan and Washington (and TCU last season) blew this narrative out of the water.

Michigan’s average composite recruiting class score the past five years is 13th.

Washington’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 25th.

TCU’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 30th.

That’s 3 out of the last 8 CFP teams (including the 2 finalists this season and the eventual champion) that have been on the low end talent wise according to the recruiting sites.

Coaching and play calling matters more than ever. Thanks to the transfer portal and NIL, there is more and more parity in the sport. Talent is obviously still important, but without competent coaching and play calling, we will not have a winning program again.

Mario better address these issues during the offseason, or his tenure here will be short.

…and for the “it took Harbaugh 9 years to win a title at Michigan” crowd, Harbaugh went 20-6 his 1st two seasons at Michigan, and was a proven college and NFL head coach. Comparing Cristobal to him is both asinine and disingenuous.

Kirby Smart disagrees with you.



Seriously though Michigan recruits some bigtime talent. One thing is they have a culture where it feels like if you aren't a high round pick, you come back to school. That is huge. They are an extremely veteran bunch. Experience talent rules in college football.

Let's also dont act like Michigan doesn't have bigtime talent either. Donovan Edwards was a 5 star. Will Johnson was a borderline 5 star who chose Michigan over Ohio State and Alabama IIRC. JJ McCarthy was borderline 5 star, and one of top QB's recruits in the country. Blake Corum 4 star top 247 RB. Mcgregor top 150 DL, Graham 4 star top 247 DL, Moore and Sabb in secondary I think both top 100 players.

 

[423Hurricane]

Including TCU in the “Jimmy’s and Joe’s” argument diminishes it somewhat in that their 1 year outlier ended in getting blown out in the championship game and they’ve returned to their rightful place of mediocrity.

Anyway, I’ve said many times the “What have you done for me lately” “I want it now” narrative is shortsighted at best. We had an incredible, improbable 18 year run that included 5 NC’s in spite of an administration that was unwilling to invest in the football program for any number of reasons. What the HC’s accomplished in that time frame was even more incredible considering the obstacles they had to overcome.

During that championship time frame, coaching overcame many of the shortcomings of the program. We also had several player difference makers on both sides of the ball but generally speaking, were not a squad loaded with 4 and 5 star talent.

In today’s CFB world, it takes not only the “Jimmy’s and Joe’s” AND great coaching but also a commitment from the university’s administration to provide the football program with the resources it needs to be competitive.

I don’t believe we’d see the recent investment in the football program without Mario. According to a few in the know, he demanded certain things or he wouldn’t come to Miami. Whether or not Mario can take advantage of all the resources he’s been provided is yet to be seen. There were many obstacles to overcome when he got back to campus and he’s not off to a good start but the jury is still out for me and this year is crucial to the trajectory of Mario’s Miami tenure.

 

[NJshoreCane]

Of the Natty winners over the last 10 years, Michigan had the lowest 5-year HS talent composite ranking at T-11th*.
FWIW, Miami this coming spring will be tied for 10th (16th this past year).

*Base talent, NIC portal

 

[filmcane]

Georgia would have blown out either of those teams t

Kirby Smart disagrees with you.



Seriously though Michigan recruits some bigtime talent. One thing is they have a culture where it feels like if you aren't a high round pick, you come back to school. That is huge. They are an extremely veteran bunch. Experience talent rules in college football.

Let's also dont act like Michigan doesn't have bigtime talent either. Donovan Edwards was a 5 star. Will Johnson was a borderline 5 star who chose Michigan over Ohio State and Alabama IIRC. JJ McCarthy was borderline 5 star, and one of top QB's recruits in the country. Blake Corum 4 star top 247 RB. Mcgregor top 150 DL, Graham 4 star top 247 DL, Moore and Sabb in secondary I think both top 100 players.

agreed

 

[ItsAUThing.com]

…better address the corching issues this off-season.

According to many posters here on CiS, in order to win a National Championship you have to get top talent (top 5 recruiting classes) for several classes.

Michigan and Washington (and TCU last season) blew this narrative out of the water.

Michigan’s average composite recruiting class score the past five years is 13th.

Washington’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 25th.

TCU’s average composite recruiting class the last five years is 30th.

That’s 3 out of the last 8 CFP teams (including the 2 finalists this season and the eventual champion) that have been on the low end talent wise according to the recruiting sites.

Coaching and play calling matters more than ever. Thanks to the transfer portal and NIL, there is more and more parity in the sport. Talent is obviously still important, but without competent coaching and play calling, we will not have a winning program again.

Mario better address these issues during the offseason, or his tenure here will be short.

…and for the “it took Harbaugh 9 years to win a title at Michigan” crowd, Harbaugh went 20-6 his 1st two seasons at Michigan, and was a proven college and NFL head coach. Comparing Cristobal to him is both asinine and disingenuous.

... you know what else matters more than ever; a quarterback who can read a simple zone defense.

We can go in circles about composite recruiting classes, but you're really gonna leave out that it was just JJ McCarthy against Michael Penix in the title game—beating teams with Quinn Ewers and Jalen Monroe in the Playoffs?

Florida State thrived with Jordan Travis for two years but looked like pure trash without him—while Carson Beck threw for just shy of 4,000 yards, 30 touchdowns and eight interceptions for the Georgia squad that just beat the brakes off the Noles... while Mario's old squad Oregon was who they were the past two years because of Heisman candidate Bo Nix.

Tyler Van Bust went to hëll in a handbag for Miami this year; 4-0 out the gate with 11 touchdowns and one interception. He threw for 374 yards and five touchdowns against Texas A&M and Miami thought it had its guy... until it didn't. The wheels fell off against Georgia Tech when their defense confused him and he coughed up 11 interceptions, two fumbles and had only five touchdowns against GT, UNC, UVA, NC State and back-up duty at FSU.

Van Yips was literally the difference between 11-2 or 10-3 this year and the 7-6 record that was delivered—but y'all want to keep screaming about coaching, despite the Canes having nothing to work with at quarterback once their starter forgot how to play the game.