Univ. of Cincinnati Shuts down Men's Soccer Program

[jw410]

D1 soccer is dead due the academies taking all the kids. The academies don’t allow kids to play high school. If your a 16 year old player and haven’t been picked up by a professional team yet, then you're likely college bound. But the scouting system for college soccer is nowhere near the level of football. If soccer in America would just take a page from football and have an established coaching network for high schools then soccer on the US would explode. As long as they continue this pay to play system US soccer is fckd.
Imagine making kids pay thousands a year to get the best coaching for football. How many optimist kids would stop playing right now? What about the muck?
US soccer has basically said that any kid that is broke in the US has no chance of being a professional soccer player. And the academies are not gonna let that money go. If US soccer was for real they would subsidize coaches salaries in high school so they would have quality to coaches and open tryouts for the most talented kids. I know kids in rec soccer that are better than some of the acandemy kids but the parents can’t afford it.

Edit: the last sentence I meant travel soccer.
My kid is on a travel team and his classmate is better than he is but his parents can’t afford travel soccer. The parents feel like sht and have no options. Mind you were talking about an 8 year old that probably has natural talent and no real avenue to develop it due to money. And we wonder why we can’t make the World Cup.

If he's good enough trust me someone's parent will pay for him. Coach might even front the money. They do it all the time in baseball. I had two dominican kids and both were studs. Trust me I never had to pay.. Other coaches/parents covered the expenses. They wanted their kids to have the best talent around them. Plus when scouts came to look at them they might see your son! Just my opinion.

 

[pacusmc]

I call BS on that some team from Florida holding there own in the world.

Being on a completely stacked team. My son didnt lose a game until he was 14 played in and won every major tournament in the south to Texas to the mid Atlantic Virginia/Maryland. 4-5 kids from that team got drafted in the MLS. They took the team to Brazil and got absolutely destroyed.

The Brazilian kids are dirt poor and need to make a super club. They play 11v11 all day and futsal in ****** gyms all night . Those kids have purpose and drive. We have made strides in the US but we will never be a worldwide powerhouse in men’s soccer.

I’m talking about kids under 10 years old. As the age increases the gap between talent here and abroad starts to Woden. The reason is likely that the cream rises to the top as the kids get older and the kids that are left that are still taking soccer seriously at other countries are the better players that they have chosen from every where Thayer can find them. Those countries have looked everywhere for talent. If a Brazilian team Made out of 14 year olds comes to the US it’s likely a team that is weeded out a lot of lesser talent. A travel team or academy team from the states is made out of the kids that can afford to pay. Mind you if you can pay and suck you won’t make the team. But the US has an extremely narrow talent pool to choose from.

 

[pacusmc]

If he's good enough trust me someone's parent will pay for him. Coach might even front the money. They do it all the time in baseball. I had two dominican kids and both were studs. Trust me I never had to pay.. Other coaches/parents covered the expenses. They wanted their kids to have the best talent around them. Plus when scouts came to look at them they might see your son! Just my opinion.

That’s the problem. The top academies start at 13 years old. And they’re picking from the best kids that are already here. Take Weston FC down here for example. It’s super expensive and they have like 3 or 4 teams on each age group and break it down by talent. By the time the kids turn 13 the best players go on the “academy” team. You can try out at 7 years old for the U8 team. But again have they really looked every where? Are they really picking all e best kids from south Florida?
and even with all that “talent” I’ve yet to see anyone kid from sofla or any of the academies get picked up to play for top European team.
Europe iis looking everywhere including any village or refugee camp in Africa while a developmental academy in Broward county sits in a neighborhood with multi million dollar homes.
yeah if a kid form Colombia who’s 14 comes here and can ball they might let him slide free into the academy team. But what they want is to develop whatever talent they got as an 8 year old and make them the next great American player. And it isn’t happening with the limited talent pool they’re starting woth. At least not at the rate or at the level they want it to be. Pulisic is likely the best American player ever.
But Barcelona or Rwal Madrid ain’t breaking the bank for him.

 

[Saviorcane]

I’m talking about kids under 10 years old. As the age increases the gap between talent here and abroad starts to Woden. The reason is likely that the cream rises to the top as the kids get older and the kids that are left that are still taking soccer seriously at other countries are the better players that they have chosen from every where Thayer can find them. Those countries have looked everywhere for talent. If a Brazilian team Made out of 14 year olds comes to the US it’s likely a team that is weeded out a lot of lesser talent. A travel team or academy team from the states is made out of the kids that can afford to pay. Mind you if you can pay and suck you won’t make the team. But the US has an extremely narrow talent pool to choose from.

The Brazilian kids are on a soccer ball the day they can walk. It’s not even close the talent gap at even 10. Our kids were 12 when we made the trip with some of the top kids in the country and got wiped out.

Soccer is a way of life there and it’s just a social event my for most Americans.

No offense but don’t compare US soccer to most of the world it’s embarrassing. As much as I want the US to be good in soccer we are just aren’t great.

 

[pacusmc]

The Brazilian kids are on a soccer ball the day they can walk. It’s not even close the talent gap at even 10. Our kids were 12 when we made the trip with some of the top kids in the country and got wiped out.

Soccer is a way of life there and it’s just a social event my for most Americans.

No offense but don’t compare US soccer to most of the world it’s embarrassing. As much as I want the US to be good in soccer we are just aren’t great.

I’m from South America so I know what your saying. But most of the kids that play down here are form parents from the islands or Latin America and some were even born there. These kids know all the players and teams and watch soccer on tv and in bars and restaurants that show the champions league games. They walk around with Barcelona and chelsea tshirts. They practice 3-4 times a week for over an hour. They vacation back in Latin America and okay with the local kids while on vacation. It’s changing down here in the states. But again the talent pool is limited.
I watch the 8 and 9 year olds and then watch the older kids. I know for a fact the younger players are projecting at higher level than where the older kids are now. But it would be even higher if we included more kids.

 

[Plzwork4]

I’m from South America so I know what your saying. But most of the kids that play down here are form parents from the islands or Latin America and some were even born there. These kids know all the players and teams and watch soccer on tv and in bars and restaurants that show the champions league games. They walk around with Barcelona and chelsea tshirts. They practice 3-4 times a week for over an hour. They vacation back in Latin America and okay with the local kids while on vacation. It’s changing down here in the states. But again the talent pool is limited.
I watch the 8 and 9 year olds and then watch the older kids. I know for a fact the younger players are projecting at higher level than where the older kids are now. But it would be even higher if we included more kids.

I believe that US soccer in general is indeed improving. Just not as quickly as we had hoped. I see the technical level of these kids now, and it is much much better across the board than when I was young. However, if the youth pay for play system was tossed out US soccer would skyrocket.

I think that the improvement has not translated to wins for the men due to a number of reasons. The main one being that we are actually trying to force our men to play a style that we are not yet fully adept at. We used to get results back in the day by having an extremely organized defense that worked their asses off to win the ball back, and we would counter attack quickly with a bit of pace...win free kicks and score mainly from set pieces or counters in run of play. There was not much emphasis on keeping the ball. Now the men are hyper focusing on possession from deep defensive 3rd all the way thru the midfield to attacking zones and we just aren't there technically yet. I think it will eventually pay dividends...just not yet. I'd like to see the men find a bad *** target and find him quicker from the back line...we just don't have that type of player yet.

 

[LoungeLord]

Solid post. The pay to play system has been our hamstring for decades. It's why our team (especially prior to about 5 years ago) was almost solely comprised of white kids from the New England area. It's absurd and we will never be better until it changes.

Having said that, I've heard a lot of people with a lot more knowledge on the topic than me say the answer is not college soccer; that, in fact, the college system we have hurts us. That camp advocates for an increased academy system. It's worth noting the rest of the soccer world uses a tiered academy system and starts farming them before they even have hair under their armpits.

That sounds fun for the kids!

 

[pacusmc]

I believe that US soccer in general is indeed improving. Just not as quickly as we had hoped. I see the technical level of these kids now, and it is much much better across the board than when I was young. However, if the youth pay for play system was tossed out US soccer would skyrocket.

I think that the improvement has not translated to wins for the men due to a number of reasons. The main one being that we are actually trying to force our men to play a style that we are not yet fully adept at. We used to get results back in the day by having an extremely organized defense that worked their asses off to win the ball back, and we would counter attack quickly with a bit of pace...win free kicks and score mainly from set pieces or counters in run of play. There was not much emphasis on keeping the ball. Now the men are hyper focusing on possession from deep defensive 3rd all the way thru the midfield to attacking zones and we just aren't there technically yet. I think it will eventually pay dividends...just not yet. I'd like to see the men find a bad *** target and find him quicker from the back line...we just don't have that type of player yet.

That’s all fine and dandy. But we are not trying hard enough to find the best players and athletes. I’ve been hearing the same argument and I’ve even championed back in 94 when the USA beat Colombia in the wold cup. And yet here we are with the USA sitting out the World Cup while failing to qualify against the easiest geographical region in all of FIFA. Yes, The USA has gotten better but so has everyone else and it seems like they got better and faster and more talented pace. And there is also a scouting disconnect and an outdated network to find players.
Just look at this bs. It reads like a sofla recruiting post.

Did US Soccer's 'arrogance' drive Jonathan González to switch to Mexico?

The talented Californian represented USA at youth level but has switched to El Tri. Some coaches and players fear it is the start of a trend

www.theguardian.com

 

[blushrts]

I wouldn't say it's that.

You should see the facilities these foreign clubs have for their players starting before they hit double digits. They travel and fly all around the globe with no expense spared. They are treated better than all but the 1 percent of the world and are on their level.

The difference is that nothing is given, it is earned. Your spot is always up for grabs and the competition is merciless. You can come in as the hotshot of the decade and the older kids who's spot you'll possibly one day take, haze you worse than any frat ever did someone.

Those premiere programs youth clubs are no joke.

I see your point, but there was a reason I said "parent's" Mercedes. US kids are in pay for play travel teams. Upper middle class kids. The kids in the academies, although treated very well, have to perform or they are out. It's their way out of a destitute life. US kid doesn't perform, big deal, parents send him to college.

 

[blushrts]

There is zero doubt in my mind, that if there was the will and the structure in place, like there is in football, the US would be a big world power with just US players. It might take a few years to get the skill level built up, because so few of our skilled athletes have taken up the sport, but I have zero doubt in my mind. Zero.

It isn't guys like Lebron James that would make the US a world power, but think slippery fast guys like a Darren Sproles or Roscoe Parrish, that if they learned the skills would be tough to deal with.

 

[Saviorcane]

That’s all fine and dandy. But we are not trying hard enough to find the best players and athletes. I’ve been hearing the same argument and I’ve even championed back in 94 when the USA beat Colombia in the wold cup. And yet here we are with the USA sitting out the World Cup while failing to qualify against the easiest geographical region in all of FIFA. Yes, The USA has gotten better but so has everyone else and it seems like they got better and faster and more talented pace. And there is also a scouting disconnect and an outdated network to find players.
Just look at this bs. It reads like a sofla recruiting post.

Did US Soccer's 'arrogance' drive Jonathan González to switch to Mexico?

The talented Californian represented USA at youth level but has switched to El Tri. Some coaches and players fear it is the start of a trend

www.theguardian.com

The majority of the best athletes are probably playing football or basketball.Until the academy is free just isn’t going to happen. There is just too may other sports to play here .

 

[blushrts]

Check out any La Liga’s Pre Benjamin squad. It’s 6 year olds that train like professionals with world class coaches. That’s the difference.

When my kid was 8 and playing in a tournament, I saw these 3 hispanic kids about that age. On another level as far as knowing spacing and moving into space to get a pass instead of the US kids all following the ball around.

 

[pacusmc]

The majority of the best athletes are probably playing football or basketball.Until the academy is free just isn’t going to happen. There is just too may other sports to play here .

If the level of play and salary of the mls increases there will be more players. But until we expand the coaching and playing opportunities to all kids it just isn’t going to happen.
What I’m proposing is getting rid of the academy system all together and use the established school system for talent development.
The academy coaches should be coaching in middle school and high school and pluck the best players from that system where the kids can play for free. Academy kids are not allowed by their clubs to play for their school team.
It’s a lot easier for the parents and kids if they can just stay after school. And they would be able to practice everyday. The same way football and baseball are done. Actually the same way it used to be before the academy system took over.

 

[canesarchitect]

So we are talking about a sport where, at the highest level, a 0-0 score at the end of regulation is a great match? That's why the sport will never fly in the USA.

 

[Saviorcane]

If the level of play and salary of the mls increases there will be more players. But until we expand the coaching and playing opportunities to all kids it just isn’t going to happen.
What I’m proposing is getting rid of the academy system all together and use the established school system for talent development.
The academy coaches should be coaching in middle school and high school and pluck the best players from that system where the kids can play for free. Academy kids are not allowed by their clubs to play for their school team.
It’s a lot easier for the parents and kids if they can just stay after school. And they would be able to practice everyday. The same way football and baseball are done. Actually the same way it used to be before the academy system took over.

High school soccer is the worst. My son could only play one year before the academy stopped school sports . It is absolutely horrible to watch.

The academy was intended to eventually be free. Whether it ends up being or not no telling.

Also the coaches get paid coaching the academy. And a ton of them also are college coaches who is going to pay them?

 

[pacusmc]

High school soccer is the worst. My son could only play one year before the academy stopped school sports . It is absolutely horrible to watch.

The academy was intended to eventually be free. Whether it ends up being or no telling.

Also the coaches get paid coaching the academy. And a ton of them also are college coaches who is going to pay them?

But yet we made several world cups and didn’t get embarrassed with that same system. High school soccer sucks now because the club, travel, and academy teams swallow all the talent and it leaves the school system depleted. Put all those players and coaches back in the school system and have them practice every day and even the bad players get better. This is why no d1 team looks at high schools anymore. There is no talent left and it’s making the current situation worse and not better. I never in my wildest dreams would’ve thought that the US in this modern era could not make the World Cup. It’s proof that the academy system is a failure. It’s been in place exactly for the us to be World Cup contender given the amount of players that play and this country’s population that is 3rd behind China and India. The system is too narrow and the playing and player philosophy too rigid.

 

[Saviorcane]

But yet we made several world cups and didn’t get embarrassed with that same system. High school soccer sucks now because the club, travel, and academy teams swallow all the talent and it leaves the school system depleted. Put all those players and coaches back in the school system and have them practice every day and even the bad players get better. This is why no d1 team looks at high schools anymore. There is no talent left and it’s making the current situation worse and not better. I never in my wildest dreams would’ve thought that the US in this modern era could not make the World Cup. It’s proof that the academy system is a failure. It’s been in place exactly for the us to be World Cup contender given the amount of players that play and this country’s population that is 3rd behind China and India. The system is too narrow and the playing and player philosophy too rigid.

This country will never be an elite country in soccer Period . You have to accept that. We don’t care about soccer here. Take out the Latino population and the interest here would be minimal.

Before the academy there was was ODP there has always been some type of structure to attract the better kids.

The academy hasn’t failed yet because it hasn’t been around long enough to make a huge difference. When it first started the youngest age to play was U-16 . Now it’s starting younger and teaching kids proper technique at younger ages. You start the kids younger, with proper teaching and high competition the kids will get better . BUT we are still the US and you need to temper your expectations for soccer.

 

[Plzwork4]

That’s all fine and dandy. But we are not trying hard enough to find the best players and athletes. I’ve been hearing the same argument and I’ve even championed back in 94 when the USA beat Colombia in the wold cup. And yet here we are with the USA sitting out the World Cup while failing to qualify against the easiest geographical region in all of FIFA. Yes, The USA has gotten better but so has everyone else and it seems like they got better and faster and more talented pace. And there is also a scouting disconnect and an outdated network to find players.
Just look at this bs. It reads like a sofla recruiting post.

Did US Soccer's 'arrogance' drive Jonathan González to switch to Mexico?

The talented Californian represented USA at youth level but has switched to El Tri. Some coaches and players fear it is the start of a trend

www.theguardian.com

I agree...other nations are improving quicker. That's why I said "if" we get rid of the current pay for play scheme we will explode. Also you keep harping on the MLS paying bigger salaries. They can't...not yet. You can't just take the roof off the salary cap...it will bankrupt the small market teams trying to stay competitive. Its what nearly ruined the MLS when it first began. They must build it slowly. You can't just start paying everyone...

Another thing...in 94' and subsequent WC's the competition around the world was weaker. It has nothing to do with how great our teams were. High school soccer in America was actually worse back when I played in the 90s than it is now as well.

 

[Plzwork4]

This country will never be an elite country in soccer Period . You have to accept that. We don’t care about soccer here. Take out the Latino population and the interest here would be minimal.

Before the academy there was was ODP there has always been some type of structure to attract the better kids.

The academy hasn’t failed yet because it hasn’t been around long enough to make a huge difference. When it first started the youngest age to play was U-16 . Now it’s starting younger and teaching kids proper technique at younger ages. You start the kids younger, with proper teaching and high competition the kids will get better . BUT we are still the US and you need to temper your expectations for soccer.

MLS being the 3rd most attended sport per game in our country says you are incorrect.

 

[KANE]

D1 soccer is dead due the academies taking all the kids. The academies don’t allow kids to play high school. If your a 16 year old player and haven’t been picked up by a professional team yet, then you're likely college bound. But the scouting system for college soccer is nowhere near the level of football. If soccer in America would just take a page from football and have an established coaching network for high schools then soccer on the US would explode. As long as they continue this pay to play system US soccer is fckd.
Imagine making kids pay thousands a year to get the best coaching for football. How many optimist kids would stop playing right now? What about the muck?
US soccer has basically said that any kid that is broke in the US has no chance of being a professional soccer player. And the academies are not gonna let that money go. If US soccer was for real they would subsidize coaches salaries in high school so they would have quality to coaches and open tryouts for the most talented kids. I know kids in rec soccer that are better than some of the acandemy kids but the parents can’t afford it.

Edit: the last sentence I meant travel soccer.
My kid is on a travel team and his classmate is better than he is but his parents can’t afford travel soccer. The parents feel like sht and have no options. Mind you were talking about an 8 year old that probably has natural talent and no real avenue to develop it due to money. And we wonder why we can’t make the World Cup.

Spot on!!! I was having this exact conversation with a couple of my soccer parents the other day.