forums

Trying to understand offensive schemes…

calinative umstudent said:
are you betting we won't be?
Click to expand...
SmartSelect_20231202_163844_Google.jpg
 
Advertisement
mcnaire2004 said:
Please put in the time I would really like to have a number. But no, 90% is a bit hyperbolic. 76% feels conservatively right. Occasionally there is a decent run on 1st but usually not.
Click to expand...
Closer to 50/50. Just looked at 3 games; NC State, Louisville, BC. Basically pass every other first down. Started running every 1st down with 20+ point lead in 2nd half vs BC.
 
Rellyrell said:
No one said anything about players; that’s been ur reasoning. Lol

Buuuuuuuuuuuuut, since u brought up players:

So what’s Louisville’s excuse this season?
What has Washington’s excuse been?
What was Miami’s excuse under Richt?

Feller, I can give u a whole slew of successful coaches in year 1 and 2 w the same players of the previous failed regimes. Nevertheless, I’ve been VERY CONSISTENT that a coach should see absolute improvements by year 3. In year 3, Miami will be completely rid of Diaz’s players. The entire roster will be Mario’s. So there should be no excuse, if it’s the players, that we wouldn’t be a 10+ win team. Norvell achieved it, & now Sark.

So let’s see, & that’s what we all should expect.
Click to expand...
Well just looking at us this yr vs Under Richt in 2017, I think the explanation is crystal clear to me. We were 11th in the country (3rd best in P5) in turnover margin in 2017. This year we were 91st (12th worst in P5). Just to be overly simplistic and looking at the actual results - assuming turnovers are worth around 4.5 in epa. If we went and looked at our results and how large a role the turnovers played, we could see:

2023:
W by 35 Miami oh, +1 TO margin ... equivalent to 29.5pt win without turnovers
W by 15 Texas A&M, +2 TO margin ... equiv to 6pt win
W by 34 Temple, +3 TO margin ... equiv to 20.5pt win
L by 3 GTech, -3 TO Margin ... equiv to 10.5pt win
L by 10 UNC, -4 TO Margin ... equiv to 8pt win
W by 8 Clemson, +2 TO Margin ... equiv to 1pt loss
W by 3 UVA, -1 TO Margin ... equiv to 1.5pt loss
L by 14 NCst, -2 TO Margin ... equiv to 5pt loss
L by 7 FSU, -1 TO Margin .... equiv to 2.5pt loss
L by 7 Louisville, +1 TO Margin .... equiv to 11.5pt loss
W by 25 Boston College, +1 TO Margin ... equiv to 21.5pt win

So regular season we'd be talking about 7-5 (58% win%)... which is what we actually finished.

2017:
W by 22 Toledo, 0 TO margin ... equiv to 22pt win
W by 25 Duke, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 21.5pt win
W by 4 FSU, +1 TO margin ... equiv to .5pt loss
W by 1 GTech, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 3.5pt loss
W by 9 Syracuse, +3 TO margin ... equiv to 5.5pt loss
W by 5 UNC, +2 TO margin ... equiv to 4pt loss
W by 18 VTech, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 13.5pt win
W by 33 Notre Dame, +4 TO margin ... equiv to 15pt win
W by 16 UVA, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 11.5pt win
L by 10 Pitt, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 14.5pt loss

So regular season in 2017 we'd be 6-5 (55% win%) ... even though we actually finished 10-1.

Now this is definitely over simplistic. But literally we finished every game in 2017 with a positive turnover margin. And while I didn't like Rosier he started every game. Rosier only had 1 game (UVA) that he didn't throw more passing TDs than INTs. TVD had 5 (Miami oh, GTech, UVA, NCSt, FSU). I don't think this year we were as good as we were in 2017. But 2017 was won because our Defense created like like 31 turnovers to just 18 this year.

People want to attribute this **** turnover margin to our coaches, go for it. Personally I think majority of that is on the Players. Our Defense didn't do enough to create turnovers, but as a whole was pretty good. We just didn't make many big plays defensively like we did in 2017.
 
I think you are watching too many HIGHLIGHT film where every successful play is highlighted. When you watch other teams complete games you will see ALL struggle sometimes. What counts the most is 3rd down and red zone plays where we seem to struggle the most. Also our defense does better stopping 3rd or 4th and short yardage yet gives up big plays late in games of 3rd or 4th and long, which seriously frustrates me.
 
Advertisement
calinative umstudent said:
Well just looking at us this yr vs Under Richt in 2017, I think the explanation is crystal clear to me. We were 11th in the country (3rd best in P5) in turnover margin in 2017. This year we were 91st (12th worst in P5). Just to be overly simplistic and looking at the actual results - assuming turnovers are worth around 4.5 in epa. If we went and looked at our results and how large a role the turnovers played, we could see:

2023:
W by 35 Miami oh, +1 TO margin ... equivalent to 29.5pt win without turnovers
W by 15 Texas A&M, +2 TO margin ... equiv to 6pt win
W by 34 Temple, +3 TO margin ... equiv to 20.5pt win
L by 3 GTech, -3 TO Margin ... equiv to 10.5pt win
L by 10 UNC, -4 TO Margin ... equiv to 8pt win
W by 8 Clemson, +2 TO Margin ... equiv to 1pt loss
W by 3 UVA, -1 TO Margin ... equiv to 1.5pt loss
L by 14 NCst, -2 TO Margin ... equiv to 5pt loss
L by 7 FSU, -1 TO Margin .... equiv to 2.5pt loss
L by 7 Louisville, +1 TO Margin .... equiv to 11.5pt loss
W by 25 Boston College, +1 TO Margin ... equiv to 21.5pt win

So regular season we'd be talking about 7-5 (58% win%)... which is what we actually finished.

2017:
W by 22 Toledo, 0 TO margin ... equiv to 22pt win
W by 25 Duke, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 21.5pt win
W by 4 FSU, +1 TO margin ... equiv to .5pt loss
W by 1 GTech, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 3.5pt loss
W by 9 Syracuse, +3 TO margin ... equiv to 5.5pt loss
W by 5 UNC, +2 TO margin ... equiv to 4pt loss
W by 18 VTech, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 13.5pt win
W by 33 Notre Dame, +4 TO margin ... equiv to 15pt win
W by 16 UVA, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 11.5pt win
L by 10 Pitt, +1 TO margin ... equiv to 14.5pt loss

So regular season in 2017 we'd be 6-5 (55% win%) ... even though we actually finished 10-1.

Now this is definitely over simplistic. But literally we finished every game in 2017 with a positive turnover margin. And while I didn't like Rosier he started every game. Rosier only had 1 game (UVA) that he didn't throw more passing TDs than INTs. TVD had 5 (Miami oh, GTech, UVA, NCSt, FSU). I don't think this year we were as good as we were in 2017. But 2017 was won because our Defense created like like 31 turnovers to just 18 this year.

People want to attribute this **** turnover margin to our coaches, go for it. Personally I think majority of that is on the Players. Our Defense didn't do enough to create turnovers, but as a whole was pretty good. We just didn't make many big plays defensively like we did in 2017.
Click to expand...

U know what’s great about this post?
 
skyman said:
Im not name brand lol, but will add it has to be a holistic thing, from top down, a complete philosophical approach. With youtube/internet EVERY single coaches presser is available, during week I listen to different guys, some dont give anything or coach speak (our guy) some are much more open (Fins coach).. Have heard coaches say you cant just take a play without taking something out, or you need a complete concept/scheme that goes with it, the guys at Kansas literally say they go to KC to steal plays and they implemented things the dolphins do the next week (but they look at their offense like a lab and have said so) Kiffin said he took dolphins short motion stuff and put in asap but he is open about "steal plays/concepts"

Our head guy is not thought of as a creative/crafty/clever playcaller or anything like that (thats neither good or bad), every coach isnt good at everything, his strentgh is talent acquisition to just try to overwhelm opponent with better bigger stronger players. He openly talks about large athletic bodies. He wants to line up and run straight up the middle, obviously he wants a balanced passing game but ideally he wants a strong front and to lean and protect them. On goalline he will call time out to get all olineman in game and run straight in pile. We know this, he will sit on ball before halftime with multiple timeouts and he will keep tryna pound a team even if the game is won because he wants to keep grinding.

Its just a complete different philisofical approach, just have to hope we load up with soo much talent we are not in death matches with the GT/UVA of the world at home.. You have to understand when you watch these teams, they are practicing these things since spring til now in conference championships, you saw on UW goalline, they are shifting/motioning on dam near every play, with limited to no presnap penalty, its second nature, no timeout needed on goalline to get right play. Dolphins offense is #1 in NFL today and they arent limited on practice like NFL and McDaniels openly talks about how much work they need to work on those presnap quick motions and the difference it works in Hard Rock compared to on the road.. Also the most I learned about our O and tendencies is from opponents breaking down our O.

Anyway this is funny because of panthers owner kinda doing the same thing

Click to expand...

Awesome post, thank you!
 
Cribby said:
Thank you sir. It’s not about being cutting edge , it’s about creativity , motioning , flexing , shifting and putting pressures on defenders eyes. Eye manipulation is the key to offensive football in 2023. Making kids that don’t practice near the hours they used to stay disciplined with eyes / assignments. Liining up in a formation and running Pa off a previous run action is a very simple wrinkle. The best coaches and play callers are always adjusting and staying a step ahead of what film showed the previous week. The last two years at UM is as predictable with some of the least amount of creativity you’ll see in todays Cfb.

In the middle of the year it was just straight up runs or drop backs letting our injured statue Qb stand there like a sitting duck. The last two games was much better.
Click to expand...
Is it accurate to say that It feels like we’re not working hard enough to be cutting edge on offense. We can have our core philosophy and bolt on from there with weekly installs of 5-10 new plays
 
JerseyCanes said:
I still don't think there was an explanation or hint of WHY?...
(I know you asked)

JC
Click to expand...
Because its a waste of time to simply steal plays. It doesn't follow a structure, nor a language. Everything in football has a name and structure, things need to be organized, prepared and ready to be studied by 90 players who have to consistenly know what to do the moment they get the call or the signal.
 
Gocanes1990 said:
Is it accurate to say that It feels like we’re not working hard enough to be cutting edge on offense. We can have our core philosophy and bolt on from there with weekly installs of 5-10 new plays
Click to expand...
Post-Wheel for example is not something that is found in typical Air Raid structures. We got it into our playbook because it works really well. But you have to give it a name and a structure.

You can steal route combos like Smash, Mesh, Y-Cross and all that. But full plays can't be stolen, its just a waste of time in the end.
 
Bender said:
Post-Wheel for example is not something that is found in typical Air Raid structures. We got it into our playbook because it works really well. But you have to give it a name and a structure.

You can steal route combos like Smash, Mesh, Y-Cross and all that. But full plays can't be stolen, its just a waste of time in the end.
Click to expand...
Thanks Bender, appreciate it.
 
Cribby said:
Thank you sir. It’s not about being cutting edge , it’s about creativity , motioning , flexing , shifting and putting pressures on defenders eyes. Eye manipulation is the key to offensive football in 2023. Making kids that don’t practice near the hours they used to stay disciplined with eyes / assignments. Liining up in a formation and running Pa off a previous run action is a very simple wrinkle. The best coaches and play callers are always adjusting and staying a step ahead of what film showed the previous week. The last two years at UM is as predictable with some of the least amount of creativity you’ll see in todays Cfb.

In the middle of the year it was just straight up runs or drop backs letting our injured statue Qb stand there like a sitting duck. The last two games was much better.
Click to expand...
People to this day believe Belichick got Peyton Manning in all these years because he called fancy ****. He didn't call fancy ****, he called the same **** he always calls. But he told Rodney Harrison to line up somewhere else to show something different or a bust in the coverage, only for him to flip late. It wasn't anything different, but there was no way of telling until the ball was snapped.

That Baylor game against UNC, Baylor ran the same **** power play. But one time the G took the Edge instead of the LB because the TE followed through to take the LB, one time the G pulled through to block the LB, another time the RB faked a flanker screen they ran prior and the G pulled through, then they ran power from a 6-man-front and left someone unblocked on the edge to create the same number mismatch they created prior to get the G to the second level again... Its the same **** run play over and over. All they changed was the formation and UNC got ******* gashed.
 
Advertisement
It’s not necessarily scheme. There’s no magic playbook. It’s more about our aggressiveness or lack of. Our coordinator doesn’t set plays up. There were very few plays where Miami caught a defense off balance this year. When the offense had success it was strictly because they either A) executed perfectly or B) were way more talented than the opponent. Now execution this year was actually pretty solid for the most part. Especially when compared to past seasons. So that’s great. The thing is, you’re not always going to have your A game. You’re not always going to just be able to whip your opponent man against man. This is when strategy and creativity come into play and as an offense we had very little of each.

Miami needs to A) cut back on the predictable play calls. Running on every 1st and ten has been brought up. Personnel and formation usage is often a big “tell” for our offense, especially if you pay attention to where the tight end lines up.
B) they need to switch up personnel groupings more often it’s no secret that they were able to break some big plays when using Brashard Smith out of the backfield. Having a multi-dimensional run/pass threat is huge. Honestly, between having a quarterback who refused to run, even when given huge rushing lanes and a tight end that was worth less than zero in the passing game, our offense was really easy to predict.
 
Gocanes1990 said:
Is it accurate to say that It feels like we’re not working hard enough to be cutting edge on offense. We can have our core philosophy and bolt on from there with weekly installs of 5-10 new plays
Click to expand...
We are far from cutting edge. Our scheme isn’t keeping DC’s up late at night lol. The lack of creativity with TE’s and rb’s is criminal for 2023. It’s stealing.
 
Get me a stud dual threat qb and this entire convo is dead.

Got Bama over uga today. It got fsu back to back 10 win seasons
It got smu past Tulane today.
Auburn has a ring because of one. UF got 2 because of one.
And even Ohio state got a ring with one.

You got a have a dude back there in today’s game that can get you out of a bind and get yards to extend plays and drives. If it’s scrambling to throw or scrambling to run.

Yes, kirby got back to back rings but his defense helped him a lot. Last year’s defense was ridiculously stacked everywhere.
And today they got a dose of a dude that’s hard to defend against.

It’s the reason Cam Ward has 7 figure offers

It’s almost as if in today’s game the statue is the exception to winning unless his initials are TB.

Miami seems to be allergic to these types of quarterbacks. We’re so allergic to them that the only reason we’re playing one in the bowl game is because we got no other options.
 
Cribby said:
We are far from cutting edge. Our scheme isn’t keeping DC’s up late at night lol. The lack of creativity with TE’s and rb’s is criminal for 2023. It’s stealing.
Click to expand...
Even if it’s different nomenclature.we have to be able to steal plays from Texas. They ran 6-7 innovative te and rb plays today.
 
Back
Top