Trajan Bandy is ****ed

My Wrestling contribution:

Loved:
Undertaker, Stone Cold, The Rock, Rey Mysterio, Kane, Jeff Hardy, Dudley Boyz, Mick Foley, Booker T, Lita

Hated:
Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels (except the sweet chinn music finisher), Triple H, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Edge, Christian, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, RVD, Golddust, Goldberg, Bradshaw, Matt Hardy, Ryback, SGT Slaughter

Was this useful?
Loved: Hogan, Sid, Warrior, Muta, Luger, Sting, Scott Steiner, MJF, Swerve Strickland, Will Ospreay, Young Stallions, 1997 Bret and HBK, Undertaker, Broken Matt and Brother Nero, Toni Storm, Rosemary

Hated: Ric Flair, Honkytonk Man, Eddie Edwards, JBL, Raven,
 
Advertisement
So I’ve been to, two, AEW events in L.A; I’ve seen the footage on IG regarding empty arenas; usually this footage is posted by WWE Stans to try to discredit a rival. That footage typically lack context, e.g taking footage during a zero hour taping.

Both times I’ve attended, it was packed. What’s hypocritical to me are the following:
- WWE fans clowning AEW for taking former WWE wrestlers, while now WWE r taking former AEW wrestlers.

-WWE fans clowned the AEW x TNA storyline just to create a NXT x TNA storyline, themselves.

-WWE fans said AEW has too many belts, when in reality WWE has more titles than AEW & ROH combined.

-WWE ?’d y former WWE stars were being pushed as champions, bypassing their own when WWE almost immediately put the title on Cody, including the newest Champion of Champions belt, & tag titles on Cargill.

-Speaking of Cargill, WWE fans clowned her saying she couldn’t wrestle or sell, yet now that she’s in WWE, the narrative has shifted to she’s a work in progress. Lol

-WWE fans talk about botch moves that’s happened in AEW while simultaneously sweeping many of their stars botches & injuries that’s occurred thereafter

-WWE fans said The Deathrider storyline is too long, but we’re like year 5 into the Bloodline storyline. Lol

I love wrestling; pro wrestling was my favorite sport b4 football, & basketball. There’s not one wrestling move I can’t execute, but the hypocrisy among both AEW & WWE has me holding my stomach in laughter.
The attendance stuff is pretty easy to verify- AEW's attendance was down 27% in 2024, WWE was up 10% for TV and 20% overall. Here is a link from a largely pro-AEW source:


I can only speak for myself, but I always loved Jade and Cody. The AEW crowd turned on them because their idea of a "pro wrestler" is much different than mine. I'm glad they're on a bigger stage now.

As long as Tony Khan keeps obsessing over Adam Cole-types and five-minute chop exhibitions, I expect the gap to remain. There is a ceiling to that style.
 
The attendance stuff is pretty easy to verify- AEW's attendance was down 27% in 2024, WWE was up 10% for TV and 20% overall. Here is a link from a largely pro-AEW source:


I can only speak for myself, but I always loved Jade and Cody. The AEW crowd turned on them because their idea of a "pro wrestler" is much different than mine. I'm glad they're on a bigger stage now.

As long as Tony Khan keeps obsessing over Adam Cole-types and five-minute chop exhibitions, I expect the gap to remain. There is a ceiling to that style.
It would be interesting to see who each promoter would sign if everything was equal. Anyone would have signed Cole in 2021 after his run in NXT; it’s simply bad luck that he had so many injuries afterwards. Vince purged what he saw as workrate types when he decided to reboot NXT and it made a lot of that type of talent available unexpectedly.

WWE certainly hit post 2001 highs last year. They will be down this year. The creating of artificial scarcity by removing most house shows will be part of it, but more importantly they have raised ticket prices so drastically it has made WWE a luxury product. TKO views wrestling like other leagues consider the NFL or NBA. It’s a premium product and should be priced accordingly, even though historically it never has been. And you’re seeing signs of a peak.

WrestleMania sales have been stalled for weeks with around 5K tickets available for both nights each, this despite the John Cena heel turn that theoretically should have led to people snapping them up. I’ve seen a few of their televised shows now do lower attendance than last year. As for AEW, I think that they have hit a plateau in their decline. Last Saturday’s Collision was one of the few that have been in the same building as last year, and it slightly outdrew it. Their March PPV had about 11K tickets, the best US performance in a year. On the other hand All In has sold it only around 12K tickets in a stadium event and only moves around 100 per week, and they had to downscale their Australia Grand Slam event from a stadium to an arena.
 
The problem with Bret was that he never got that win over a Hogan or Warrior or even Savage to establish him as the legit next headliner. He beat Flair on a match that was never televised (at the time). 1992 was such a unique time; WWE lost so much talent so quickly (Hogan on hiatus, Warrior fired, Bulldog fired, Piper getting a hip replacement, Hawk quits, Sid walks out, Jake forces his release). Bret never got that victory over a huge name that everyone could see.

As for the corny gimmicks, it was Vince and Pat amping things up to compensate for the lack of steroids. Wrestlers could no longer have larger than life looks, so the company compensated with larger than life characters (which often put the now diminished wrestlers in full body costumes). And if you watched both WCW and the WWF, by 1994 the company was prominently featuring two guys who had been completed no factors in WCW (Razor Ramon…aka WCW’s Diamond Studd, and Diesel…aka WCW’s Vinnie Vegas / Oz). In a way it was even worse than Paul Roma getting a spot in the Horsemen. At least Roma was in a good tag-team in WWE after having previously been an enhancement talent.

Those are likely ancillary reasons why he never took off, but Bret and all of the aforementioned New Generation talents at the top struggled to draw during that period. All of which were varying degrees of a draw at some point (outside of Yoko, really) elsewhere.

There was just a lot less interest in wrestling during that period for all of the reasons I listed and you helped support...and its not because Bret Hart just wasn't a draw. He wasn't Hogan or Austin...but he wasnt a negative draw. His case is very similar to Sting in that...Sting was Ric Flair and when WCW moved to Sting after Flair went to the WWF in the early 90s, there was a decline in ratings and PPV buys, et al. but Sting was a far better draw than say Luger who they also tried to push in roughly the same period of time. Ultimate Warrior was just less of a draw than Hogan, but it doesn't mean there wasn't some drawing cache (WWE, Vince in particular has retconned the Warrior story dramatically since the two made nice years back before Warrior died). Maybe Bret is on the lower end of that spectrum, and thats fine, but business was absolutely not in the tank because of him. Business was in the tank because of Vince and the operation he was running.

There are far fewer people watching and attending pro wrestling overall than there was during the territory days. Pro Wrestling outfits were running shows on Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve and selling out all over the country. Sure, under Vince single event attendance rose dramatically during the 1980s, but as Vince and the WWF/E expanded and consolidated, there were less and less overall wrestling fans. Wrestling was more vibrant, diverse, and seen by more people. The story WWE tells is that it was just a rinky dink American circus before Vince made wrestling what it was...but they conveniently forget and gloss over the vibrant American scene as popular as it was in places like Oregon, Texas, the Carolinas, Florida, Puerto Rico, Mexico, and places internationally like India and Singapore in the 50s and 60s that popped massive houses or the vibrant scene in Japan. In 1995, when the WWF is dying a death, New Japan and WCW put over 300K over two nights (under some very authoritarian means but I digress) at the Collision in Korea show headlined by Ric Flair, Antonio Inoki, SCOTT NORTON, and Shinya Hashimoto. All In London put 72K in seats less than 2 years ago. Again, when WWE was dying a death in the mid 90s Battle put 65K in the Ahtami Sun Dome headlined by Abdullah the Butcher...and hey, Bret Hart has one of the highest gates at Wembley during that same period, too. WCW was doing fine and on the ascent. Wrestling globally was doing well with some big time gates. WWF wasn't a draw in the mid-90s because of Vince. Not because of Bret Hart.

If you listen to Pat Patterson and regurgitate the same talking points you hear on WWE home videos when they tell the story of wrestling, yeah, it paints the picture of Vince as the greatest thing since slice bread. However, pro wrestling is far less watched, far less respected, and far less creatively satisfying because of Vince. The company post Vince is far better off in all ways. He was a bottleneck, no matter how successful the company was. Vince was a successful robber baron, but a weak titan of industry. Also, a multi-time rapist, conspirator to murder, negligent in the death of his contracted talent, lord knows what he has done with children, including his own daughter, but we definitely know he was supporting a pedophile ring, *** trafficker, harborer of rapists and *** abusers. Overall horrible human that in time will prove to be a net negative to the industry he was a part of.

The wrestlers make more money than ever before...but that was never because of Vince...that was because of the competition around the WWF/E driving up the cost of labor and Vince had to match to compete. When there was no competition, pay in the WWE was the best in town, but not really maximizing what they could have made. Look at the differences in pay NOW since AEW arrived on the scene versus before. As detailed in podcasts...1M max deal, now those max deals for top guys are 10M before the ancillary revenue streams like merch and gates.
 
Last edited:
The attendance stuff is pretty easy to verify- AEW's attendance was down 27% in 2024, WWE was up 10% for TV and 20% overall. Here is a link from a largely pro-AEW source:


I can only speak for myself, but I always loved Jade and Cody. The AEW crowd turned on them because their idea of a "pro wrestler" is much different than mine. I'm glad they're on a bigger stage now.

As long as Tony Khan keeps obsessing over Adam Cole-types and five-minute chop exhibitions, I expect the gap to remain. There is a ceiling to that style.
All of that stuff by Dave is very true. AEW's attendance and even ratings stunk. All self-inflicted, too.

AEW beat Triple H's version of NXT pretty soundly. All of those talents AEW signed (like Cole...great example...he ******* stinks) are the same talents AEW beat out in that early competition. Who would have thought then featuring them in key, major storylines in your company that it would have led to a decline for you, too? Probably everybody. Bad move by Tony...but that was also an era when Tony was hiring a ton of WWE behind the scenes types, too.

Those AEW ratings and declining figures were when the company was trying to be more like WWE (all the way down to how they produced the shows).

For what its worth, early 2025 data is showing a rise in attendance and ratings for AEW. But you know the deal, that stuff takes a long time to get back to whatever level you were at before, but your critiques of AEW are valid...but hopefully behind us. They still do the best PPVs in the history of American business. Even when they suck those PPVs are incredible.

As seen with a wrestler we both like - the Code Man - Tony has an issue putting the final touches on creating real, tangible stars. In AEW, Cody would have been a phenomenal heel (it is why the fans booed him), but this is the direction he wants to go in and he was right...he's now the biggest star in the world outside of Reigns and The Rock. That could have been in AEW, too. Unfortunately, we'll never see that. I mention that because Tony needs to not make the same mistake with Swerve, MJF, Ospreay, Kyle Fletcher (if you don't like that dude, you have **** taste)...he needs to put the final touches on those guys to make them legit stars...otherwise, WWE will do it for him and then you may not get them back because they have a real company with adults over there now. Not a bunch of *** pests and pedos running around with a narrow vision of wrestling.
 
Those are likely ancillary reasons why he never took off, but Bret and all of the aforementioned New Generation talents at the top struggled to draw during that period. All of which were varying degrees of a draw at some point (outside of Yoko, really) elsewhere.

There was just a lot less interest in wrestling during that period for all of the reasons I listed and you helped support...and its not because Bret Hart just wasn't a draw. He wasn't Hogan or Austin...but he wasnt a negative draw. His case is very similar to Sting in that...Sting was Ric Flair and when WCW moved to Sting after Flair went to the WWF in the early 90s, there was a decline in ratings and PPV buys, et al. but Sting was a far better draw than say Luger who they also tried to push in roughly the same period of time. Ultimate Warrior was just less of a draw than Hogan, but it doesn't mean there wasn't some drawing cache (WWE, Vince in particular has retconned the Warrior story dramatically since the two made nice years back before Warrior died). Maybe Bret is on the lower end of that spectrum, and thats fine, but business was absolutely not in the tank because of him. Business was in the tank because of Vince and the operation he was running.

There are far fewer people watching and attending pro wrestling overall than there was during the territory days. Pro Wrestling outfits were running shows on Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve and selling out all over the country. Sure, under Vince single event attendance rose dramatically during the 1980s, but as Vince and the WWF/E expanded and consolidated, there were less and less overall wrestling fans. Wrestling was more vibrant, diverse, and seen by more people. The story WWE tells is that it was just a rinky dink American circus before Vince made wrestling what it was...but they conveniently forget and gloss over the vibrant American scene as popular as it was in places like Oregon, Texas, the Carolinas, Florida, Puerto Rico, Mexico, and places internationally like India and Singapore in the 50s and 60s that popped massive houses or the vibrant scene in Japan. In 1995, when the WWF is dying a death, New Japan and WCW put over 300K over two nights (under some very authoritarian means but I digress) at the Collision in Korea show headlined by Ric Flair, Antonio Inoki, SCOTT NORTON, and Shinya Hashimoto. All In London put 72K in seats less than 2 years ago. Again, when WWE was dying a death in the mid 90s Battle put 65K in the Ahtami Sun Dome headlined by Abdullah the Butcher...and hey, Bret Hart has one of the highest gates at Wembley during that same period, too. WCW was doing fine and on the ascent. Wrestling globally was doing well with some big time gates. WWF wasn't a draw in the mid-90s because of Vince. Not because of Bret Hart.

If you listen to Pat Patterson and regurgitate the same talking points you hear on WWE home videos when they tell the story of wrestling, yeah, it paints the picture of Vince as the greatest thing since slice bread. However, pro wrestling is far less watched, far less respected, and far less creatively satisfying because of Vince. The company post Vince is far better off in all ways. He was a bottleneck, no matter how successful the company was. Vince was a successful robber baron, but a weak titan of industry. Also, a multi-time rapist, conspirator to murder, negligent in the death of his contracted talent, lord knows what he has done with children, including his own daughter, but we definitely know he was supporting a pedophile ring, *** trafficker, harborer of rapists and *** abusers. Overall horrible human that in time will prove to be a net negative to the industry he was a part of.

The wrestlers make more money than ever before...but that was never because of Vince...that was because of the competition around the WWF/E driving up the cost of labor and Vince had to match to compete. When there was no competition, pay in the WWE was the best in town, but not really maximizing what they could have made. Look at the differences in pay NOW since AEW arrived on the scene versus before. As detailed in podcasts...1M max deal, now those max deals for top guys are 10M before the ancillary revenue streams like merch and gates.
These are great points.

WWE under Vince by the 2010s could be argued was in the throes of Founders Syndrome.

The giant content deals that they were getting from 2016 onward really mitigated any pressure to improve the product.

Going back to the early 1990s, I think that the biggest issue that WWE faced was that they were a victim of their own monopolistic drive. By 1993, they had run out of younger stars to lure from other promotions because those companies were literally gone. They went from signing stars from territories that got a fresh coat of paint (Paul Orndorff, Jesse Ventura, Ricky Steamboat, Jake Roberts) to bringing in veritable rookies like Big Bully Busick, Mondo Kleen, Chris Chavis, The Harlem Knights, and The Long Riders. These were blank slates and Vince's creative largely failed them. I think he was a good filter for a long time for the creative of others, but his own creative well ran dry by 1990.

I'd throw out the WCW Festival for Peace supershow in North Korea; the 300K fans literally had to attend. But you're right, All Japan and New Japan were quite hot through the 1990s and regularly selling out the Egg Dome. AAA made a nice incursion into California and drew well over 10K fans at a time when WCW was having to cancel Omni shows for failure to sell more than 100 tickets. And WWE, it was in a sad state. It was like the NFL going from major stadiums to high school stadiums. We went from brightly lit arenas (like today) to dark, smoky convention centers and at times high school gyms.

Imagine going from this:

1743468226775.png


1743468506332.png


To this:

1743468338172.png


1743468387209.png
 
Advertisement
There have been very, very few successful promoters. All of them fade out for varying reasons. For some it is an inability to adapt (Verne, Fritz). For others, it’s outside factors or poor spending choices (Crockett, Heyman). Vince was the only one to have a second act (Attitude Era), and by the combination of winning the Monday Night War and gaining a virtual monopoly and the rise of content rights he ensured the survival of WWE despite whatever creative decisions that he would then make.

Tony Khan was a huge wrestling fan and fantasy booker who had a great initial business model:

1. Do the opposite of what late-era Vince had done that upset fans. WWE had become so safe and ossified by 2019, and to boot incredibly self indulgent and booked to please not an outside audience, but one man. AEW could stand out by booking for disaffected fans

2. Have the funding to sustain losses for five years until AEW got to its third content deal. They did, and are now profitable to an extent.

To the first point, the biggest blow to AEW was Vince losing the creative reigns. A competently run WWE was its biggest threat, because now Tony would no longer be able to build its identity around a company that did right what WWE did wrong. AEW didn’t have forty years of goodwill, WWE did and fans returned. A wrestling audience that was 65 / 35 in favor of WWE in 2001 is now probably 92 / 8. Tony Khan is now trying to establish what AEW’s identity will be going forward.

AEW as well has done themselves no favors. They squandered 2023 by filling their shows with storyline less matches. I think that there must have been a string of twenty straight Dynamites that opened with Orange Cassidy facing someone for no reason. Attendance and viewership began to decline that year, and aside from Punk drama it was a contributing factor.

Also another factor in AEWs decline, the mishandling of stables. Stables r a bloodline (pun intended) to wrestling. Whether it’s The Four Horsemen, Dangerous Alliance, heel turn Hart Foundation, NWO, Bloodline, The Authority, etc. etc., u need a dominant stable.

AEW tricked off every stable either by marginalizing them or by breaking them to too quickly w/ no rhyme or reason. They also put belts on the wrong wrestlers, wrestlers that became stale. U hit the nail on the head regarding storylines, too. I get having matches w jobbers, but man Orange Cassidy was just fighting anyone w/ no rhyme or reason. The best storyline they’ve had was Moriah May & Tony Storm. By far the best.

Lastly, they do a poor job of differentiating heel from baby face, & that turns off pure fans. MJF does a great job in making sure the fans don’t cheer for him. Momentum is a mutha; Tony would do well to just be the $$$ man, & allow a real creator to come in & revamp the programming. AEW PPVs r great, but the week to week programming building off PPVs is head-scratching.
 
Also another factor in AEWs decline, the mishandling of stables. Stables r a bloodline (pun intended) to wrestling. Whether it’s The Four Horsemen, Dangerous Alliance, heel turn Hart Foundation, NWO, Bloodline, The Authority, etc. etc., u need a dominant stable.

AEW tricked off every stable either by marginalizing them or by breaking them to too quickly w/ no rhyme or reason. They also put belts on the wrong wrestlers, wrestlers that became stale. U hit the nail on the head regarding storylines, too. I get having matches w jobbers, but man Orange Cassidy was just fighting anyone w/ no rhyme or reason. The best storyline they’ve had was Moriah May & Tony Storm. By far the best.

Lastly, they do a poor job of differentiating heel from baby face, & that turns off pure fans. MJF does a great job in making sure the fans don’t cheer for him. Momentum is a mutha; Tony would do well to just be the $$$ man, & allow a real creator to come in & revamp the programming. AEW PPVs r great, but the week to week programming building off PPVs is head-scratching.

AEW’s dealing with the same issues WCW had. A lot of the ex WWE given creative control and pulling a Hogan so they don’t get pinned clean to make them look bad, which makes it worse
 
Also another factor in AEWs decline, the mishandling of stables. Stables r a bloodline (pun intended) to wrestling. Whether it’s The Four Horsemen, Dangerous Alliance, heel turn Hart Foundation, NWO, Bloodline, The Authority, etc. etc., u need a dominant stable.

AEW tricked off every stable either by marginalizing them or by breaking them to too quickly w/ no rhyme or reason. They also put belts on the wrong wrestlers, wrestlers that became stale. U hit the nail on the head regarding storylines, too. I get having matches w jobbers, but man Orange Cassidy was just fighting anyone w/ no rhyme or reason. The best storyline they’ve had was Moriah May & Tony Storm. By far the best.

Lastly, they do a poor job of differentiating heel from baby face, & that turns off pure fans. MJF does a great job in making sure the fans don’t cheer for him. Momentum is a mutha; Tony would do well to just be the $$$ man, & allow a real creator to come in & revamp the programming. AEW PPVs r great, but the week to week programming building off PPVs is head-scratching.
What I would love to see is a triumvirate of the best creative minds put together in a small room for AEW, as WCW did in 1989 when they had Paul Heyman, Kevin Sullivan, Jim Cornette, Eddie Gilbert, and Jim Ross booking with Flair overseeing.
AEW’s dealing with the same issues WCW had. A lot of the ex WWE given creative control and pulling a Hogan so they don’t get pinned clean to make them look bad, which makes it worse
I don’t think it’ that bad. No one has Hogan’s absurd creative control, where he could not only veto his angles, but those of everyone else.

A WCW issue that they are dealing with is that like the old Turner promotion, they got used to signing WWE free agents. They got used to getting ready made performers. They lost the muscle memory that they had in 2019 and 2020 to create new talent, homogenous.
 
Advertisement
if Pete and bandy was a WWE plot line, it would be Santino Marella giving improper benefits to hornswoggle?
 
if Pete and bandy was a WWE plot line, it would be Santino Marella giving improper benefits to hornswoggle?

Pete thought he was the Million Dollar man paying the kids to leave early and sign with FRM
 
Back
Top