Trajan Bandy is ****ed

[nycane]

The WWE hate has you reaching like Giant Gonzalez.

The booker, Triple H, has nothing to do with the current boom period? And Lee Fitting, a TV producer who didn’t even get there until 2024, deserves more credit?

As to the last point, it strikes me as ironic. When the WWE’s product was at its worst (2019), the only defense people had was that the company still made money. Now the AEW apologists are using the same excuse. The arenas are empty for a reason.

because Tony Khan is a wrestling fan using his money to live his dream. He is a fan nothing more or less. also he has that kid MJF who is super talented but he tried to build a company around guys like Kenny omega and the young bucks who just arent it.

 

[nycane]

Not a bad retcon at all.

Take a look at the ticket sales & PPV numbers when Bret was the lead guy after Hogan left, the company completely TANKED, that's a fact.

WWE took off as soon as Bret went to WCW. Why? Because he was out of the way & it allowed for The Rock, Stone Cold, Shawn, Hunter, Mankind & everyone else to flourish.

I never said Bret was a bad person, I said he was a spoiled Brat because he was, that's where the nickname came from. There's at least a dozen or so shoot interviews from guys who worked with Bret that attested to the fact that when they would work with him he would always try to go over. He always complained about having a belt around his waist & whenever there was a program that didn't put him over he would be difficult to deal with.

Of course Shawn was a ****, no one denies that. But to act as if that’s why Montreal happened is the actual retcon.

Montreal happened because Bret was being a Brat & didn't wanna put Shawn over on his way out of the door, because he didn't wanna lose in Canada. That's really all it boiled down to. He tried to dictate terms on his exit & that's not how the business works. When you're leaving a promotion, you do a job for the Babyface on your way out the door & Bret, was too into his own ego to just drop the strap to Shawn because Shawn messed with his head.

Shawn got into Bret's head because Bret was extremely wound tight & thought he was a real life Superhero of Calagry, so Shawn fuxked with him. Bret was a huge mark for himself & guys like Shawn loved to stir-sh×t with the marks.

All Bret had to do was take the Superkick & lay down, 1,2,3 in the ring & then go off to WCW where he was gonna be extremely well paid. But he just couldn't do it, he just couldn't get over himself enough to do the job, so they screwed him.

in fairness to bret hart, there is no stone cold without bret. Bret was a cry baby, who wanted to be champ but he did tell Vince he'd drop it elsewhere not in Canada. problem is Vince knew Bischoff played dirty and couldnt risk it .

 

[JamesQuall]

I see we’ve hit the wrestling part of thread derailment.

Is now a good time to ask for good BBQ spots in the Ft Lauderdale area?

 

[EudocimusAlbus]

I see we’ve hit the wrestling part of thread derailment.

Is now a good time to ask for good BBQ spots in the Ft Lauderdale area?

I came in here thinking something new surfaced re: Bandy, and this was the first image I come across, had my head spinning for a sec lol

 

[BoxingRobes]

Not a bad retcon at all.

Take a look at the ticket sales & PPV numbers when Bret was the lead guy after Hogan left, the company completely TANKED, that's a fact.

WWE took off as soon as Bret went to WCW. Why? Because he was out of the way & it allowed for The Rock, Stone Cold, Shawn, Hunter, Mankind & everyone else to flourish.

I never said Bret was a bad person, I said he was a spoiled Brat because he was, that's where the nickname came from. There's at least a dozen or so shoot interviews from guys who worked with Bret that attested to the fact that when they would work with him he would always try to go over. He always complained about having a belt around his waist & whenever there was a program that didn't put him over he would be difficult to deal with.

Of course Shawn was a ****, no one denies that. But to act as if that’s why Montreal happened is the actual retcon.

Montreal happened because Bret was being a Brat & didn't wanna put Shawn over on his way out of the door, because he didn't wanna lose in Canada. That's really all it boiled down to. He tried to dictate terms on his exit & that's not how the business works. When you're leaving a promotion, you do a job for the Babyface on your way out the door & Bret, was too into his own ego to just drop the strap to Shawn because Shawn messed with his head.

Shawn got into Bret's head because Bret was extremely wound tight & thought he was a real life Superhero of Calagry, so Shawn fuxked with him. Bret was a huge mark for himself & guys like Shawn loved to stir-sh×t with the marks.

All Bret had to do was take the Superkick & lay down, 1,2,3 in the ring & then go off to WCW where he was gonna be extremely well paid. But he just couldn't do it, he just couldn't get over himself enough to do the job, so they screwed him.

So, it was BRET and not...

the steroid trial in 93? Vince had to pay tons in legal fees for that, and that alone nearly put the company under.
The **** poor reputation wrestling had post-Hogan as Vince's scumbaggery is starting to make its way into pop culture (like the Ring Boy Scandal) ... wrestling just wasn't popular then, and its mostly Vince's fault...like when he showed *** on Donahue for the nation to see in 1992)

Vince's overall vision of the product at the time? (this was the era with Doink the Clown and other cartoon gimmicks)...he pushed talent like Lex Luger, Bob Backlund, Diesel, Michaels, SID, and Taker all before Bret left the company after Hogan at the top and filled the roster with cartoons. Many were draws before (Backlund) and would be later (Nash/Hall, Michaels and Taker as well, although, both of them are dinged for the same reason Hart was...not as good of a draw as Hogan and Austin). There were a TON of regional draws he had hired and turned them into goofs (Ric Flair being the most egregious - he was way more than a regional draw, but talent like Hennig, Lawler, Jarrett, Rougeaus, among others were turned into cartoon characters...he made money off of BamBam Bigelow one time, with Lawrence Taylor)

Vince not understanding that Hulk Hogan still had juice left to squeeze?

The new company that took the lowest TV draw as champion (Nash) and made something very popular with him - the dismissed Hogan, and WWE mid-card-ish Scott Hall? Vince's inability to create compelling characters and stories to compete with the competition wasn't it, it was Bret?

When Bret showed up in WCW, he was a draw.

When you look at the context between both eras (Hogan to Austin...that "new generation era") Bret was even a draw (albeit, by a slim margin) by that context.

13 wws the lowest Manias - from the New Gen Era - and Bret wasn't in the main. 12 did (the Iron Man Match) and it popped more than the next year with Taker.

Summerslam 92 (Bret in the main) gate was only recently broken by AEW. When they were barely holding on in that early 90s period, they would do European tours with Bret on top because he drew in Europe.

...but it was Bret?

 

[Angry Ibis]

I see we’ve hit the wrestling part of thread derailment.

Is now a good time to ask for good BBQ spots in the Ft Lauderdale area?

Is Bandy opening one? Zo will give it a bad Yelp Review and we will be back on track... Pete and Malki stealing his tips...

 

[BoxingRobes]

The WWE hate has you reaching like Giant Gonzalez.

The booker, Triple H, has nothing to do with the current boom period? And Lee Fitting, a TV producer who didn’t even get there until 2024, deserves more credit?

As to the last point, it strikes me as ironic. When the WWE’s product was at its worst (2019), the only defense people had was that the company still made money. Now the AEW apologists are using the same excuse. The arenas are empty for a reason.

I actually don't hate WWE. I hate Vince McMahon. He's one of the worst humans on planet earth. Serial rapist. *** trafficker. Coerced numerous (maybe countless) women that worked for him to perform disgusting acts on TV and worse behind the scenes including his own daughter. Allowed for a pedophile ring in his company. Negligence in the death of his talent. Covered up murders by his talent. None of this is new...he's a terrible person.

Wrestling is worse off because of Vince McMahon. It was better, more popular, and more financially beneficial for all involved before he got involved nationally and its better now without him around. WWE is now run by a real company with real business men in it. The pay is higher now than ever before after Vince (went from roughly 1M flat contracts to contracts that are worth 8 figures for top guys before all of the other escalators - and they use the fill-the-box method before payouts).

This isn't a discussion about AEW. You made mention of it to help your argument propping up a serial rapist, but that argument includes the second most profitable wrestling company in history in only 5 years. I have my issues with the direction of AEW creatively, but the company is an unmitigated success in such a short period of time. It took Vince 30 years to become as financially successful as AEW did in 5 years in a much different landscape of wrestling.

Could AEW be better...yes. In many ways, but its a massive success as is.

As for Triple H, he's a figurehead and has some control over storylines, but none of the ones that matter. Paul Heyman is more responsible for the current boom period then Triple H (remember when Triple H got demoted and sent home by Vince because he lost to Tony Khan head to head in NXT?). Heyman has been the key booker of the the Bloodline angle. Reigns and Johnson have far more power. Cena when he comes back has more power. Cody Rhodes literally can tell Hunter to **** off whenever he wants and outside of Reigns and The Rock the wrestler with the most power over his direction. Nick Khan obviously runs the operation. Sami Zayn is likely more responsible for the boom period they are in now than Triple H. Triple H is middle management.

Lee Fittig is responsible for the look of the show. When you watch RAW or Smackdown now, tons of the same style of camera work is used there that was used on Gameday.

 

[DMoney]

Sami Zayn is likely more responsible for the boom period they are in now than Triple H.

 

[pacusmc]

Holy SHT!!
Bandy to WWE??!!

 

[BoxingRobes]

View attachment 322166

WWE had their best year in 2023 ever up to that point and who was at the top at the end of 2022 and start of 2023?

Reigns and Zayn.

Reigns, Cody, Sami, Owens, and the Usos all main evented Mania that year.

Triple H doesn't and didn't book The Bloodline. Its Heyman and those involved in the angle.

Paul Heyman Details The Creative Process For The Bloodline Storyline

Paul Heyman dives deep into the creative process behind The Bloodline storyline. Heyman has been paired with Roman Reigns since 2020, and they were later joined by The Usos, Sami Zayn and Solo Sikoa. Throughout the group’s run, the storyline has been praised as one of the most compelling...

www.yahoo.com

"He noted that he and Reigns often discuss ideas, and he also gave The Usos credit for their ideas. Heyman then named Michael Hayes, the SmackDown writing team, and others as well."

"There are times when we’re sitting in the room and it’s Roman, me, the Usos, and one of the Usos, will just say, ‘You know what would be really good with Sami?’ ‘Oh my God, why aren’t we doing that already?’ You’ll find things that come from the Usos that would shock you, just how great they are. There is Michael Hayes. He has an understanding about telling a story within the body of a match that very few in history could ever claim to be on par with. The SmackDown writing team, which is led by Ryan Callahan, who is an unsung hero in what we’ve put together. Ryan Callahan and his team. Michael Kirshenbaum, who you never hear about. On a week to week basis, along with a gentleman named Chad Barbash, Zach Hyatt, there are all people who will come and sit in a room with us or on Roman’s bus or on a conference call and we’ll throw around ideas. ‘What resonates with you? You have teenage kids, this story of acceptance, what tales are they telling from the cafeteria at lunch time in high school?’ It’s really a team and a lot of unsung heroes and a lot of people you don’t read about online because they very intentionally keep their names out of the headlines, who have worked their asses off to put this together.”

Heyman also highlighted Zayn’s role in the process before he praised the group as a whole. He noted that the creative team vet their own ideas, and The Bloodline always has a plan when they present their ideas.

“Sami has had a big voice in it too, and rightfully so, he’s the person presenting the character. In terms of me just shooting down…with this group, there have not been a lot of ideas that I sit there and say, ‘that’s not even worth me reaching out for.’ It’s a pretty **** smart group. The people that I’ve mentioned don’t just throw crap up against a wall and see what sticks. They vet their own ideas out. It’s never just, ‘Hey, I have this one little thing and one word,’ there is a plan with anything that is presented to us. On the flip side, when we present to them, we always have a plan, ‘this leads to this leads to this, which we call back on in a few weeks where the very same thing happens but it’s the mirror image.’ We try, everything that we do, we try to give meaning to, so that when it happens again, there is a story behind the action itself.” (H/t Jeremy Lambert of Fightful for the transcription)"

Your boy Levesque didn't touch what would lead to the boom period in WWE. Not even involved. Not even allowed in the room.

You can go back and watch that documentary WWE produced last year when The Rock came back to see how little power he has over anything.

 

[gogeta4]

DID TRAJAN BANDY GET KICK OUT OF NWO?.

 

[LoungeLord]

WWE had their best year in 2023 ever up to that point and who was at the top at the end of 2022 and start of 2023?

Reigns and Zayn.

Reigns, Cody, Sami, Owens, and the Usos all main evented Mania that year.

Triple H doesn't and didn't book The Bloodline. Its Heyman and those involved in the angle.

Paul Heyman Details The Creative Process For The Bloodline Storyline

Paul Heyman dives deep into the creative process behind The Bloodline storyline. Heyman has been paired with Roman Reigns since 2020, and they were later joined by The Usos, Sami Zayn and Solo Sikoa. Throughout the group’s run, the storyline has been praised as one of the most compelling...

www.yahoo.com

"He noted that he and Reigns often discuss ideas, and he also gave The Usos credit for their ideas. Heyman then named Michael Hayes, the SmackDown writing team, and others as well."

"There are times when we’re sitting in the room and it’s Roman, me, the Usos, and one of the Usos, will just say, ‘You know what would be really good with Sami?’ ‘Oh my God, why aren’t we doing that already?’ You’ll find things that come from the Usos that would shock you, just how great they are. There is Michael Hayes. He has an understanding about telling a story within the body of a match that very few in history could ever claim to be on par with. The SmackDown writing team, which is led by Ryan Callahan, who is an unsung hero in what we’ve put together. Ryan Callahan and his team. Michael Kirshenbaum, who you never hear about. On a week to week basis, along with a gentleman named Chad Barbash, Zach Hyatt, there are all people who will come and sit in a room with us or on Roman’s bus or on a conference call and we’ll throw around ideas. ‘What resonates with you? You have teenage kids, this story of acceptance, what tales are they telling from the cafeteria at lunch time in high school?’ It’s really a team and a lot of unsung heroes and a lot of people you don’t read about online because they very intentionally keep their names out of the headlines, who have worked their asses off to put this together.”

Heyman also highlighted Zayn’s role in the process before he praised the group as a whole. He noted that the creative team vet their own ideas, and The Bloodline always has a plan when they present their ideas.

“Sami has had a big voice in it too, and rightfully so, he’s the person presenting the character. In terms of me just shooting down…with this group, there have not been a lot of ideas that I sit there and say, ‘that’s not even worth me reaching out for.’ It’s a pretty **** smart group. The people that I’ve mentioned don’t just throw crap up against a wall and see what sticks. They vet their own ideas out. It’s never just, ‘Hey, I have this one little thing and one word,’ there is a plan with anything that is presented to us. On the flip side, when we present to them, we always have a plan, ‘this leads to this leads to this, which we call back on in a few weeks where the very same thing happens but it’s the mirror image.’ We try, everything that we do, we try to give meaning to, so that when it happens again, there is a story behind the action itself.” (H/t Jeremy Lambert of Fightful for the transcription)"

Your boy Levesque didn't touch what would lead to the boom period in WWE. Not even involved. Not even allowed in the room.

You can go back and watch that documentary WWE produced last year when The Rock came back to see how little power he has over anything.

You have to have a IQ just above a rock to follow WWE.

 

[BoxingRobes]

You have to have a IQ just above a rock to follow WWE.

WWE fans are statistically dumb and poor.

Audience composition: Income and education demographics for WWE, AEW, Impact, New Japan, WOW - Wrestlenomics

Median household income The U.S. Census Bureau reported the median household income for the national population was $74,580 in 2022. All wrestling programs we have data for have a lower median income than that, with viewers of AEW Dynamite the highest, at $61,500. This data reflects live and...

wrestlenomics.com

But, as noted by the owner of the site, I can't stand the company so, I am not dumb nor poor. I'm blessed.

 

[Cajuncane]

I see we’ve hit the wrestling part of thread derailment.

Is now a good time to ask for good BBQ spots in the Ft Lauderdale area?

Anyone know a good pizza place in New York….

 

[Angry Ibis]

Anyone know a good pizza place in New York….

NY pizza is almost as overrated as Columbus

 

[dycane]

We’ve got some reputation management going on itt. Like those companies who create a billion fake websites with your name in order to push embarrassing news out of sight in google search.

 

[Rellyrell]

The WWE hate has you reaching like Giant Gonzalez.

The booker, Triple H, has nothing to do with the current boom period? And Lee Fitting, a TV producer who didn’t even get there until 2024, deserves more credit?

As to the last point, it strikes me as ironic. When the WWE’s product was at its worst (2019), the only defense people had was that the company still made money. Now the AEW apologists are using the same excuse. The arenas are empty for a reason.

So I’ve been to, two, AEW events in L.A; I’ve seen the footage on IG regarding empty arenas; usually this footage is posted by WWE Stans to try to discredit a rival. That footage typically lack context, e.g taking footage during a zero hour taping.

Both times I’ve attended, it was packed. What’s hypocritical to me are the following:
- WWE fans clowning AEW for taking former WWE wrestlers, while now WWE r taking former AEW wrestlers.

-WWE fans clowned the AEW x TNA storyline just to create a NXT x TNA storyline, themselves.

-WWE fans said AEW has too many belts, when in reality WWE has more titles than AEW & ROH combined.

-WWE ?’d y former WWE stars were being pushed as champions, bypassing their own when WWE almost immediately put the title on Cody, including the newest Champion of Champions belt, & tag titles on Cargill.

-Speaking of Cargill, WWE fans clowned her saying she couldn’t wrestle or sell, yet now that she’s in WWE, the narrative has shifted to she’s a work in progress. Lol

-WWE fans talk about botch moves that’s happened in AEW while simultaneously sweeping many of their stars botches & injuries that’s occurred thereafter

-WWE fans said The Deathrider storyline is too long, but we’re like year 5 into the Bloodline storyline. Lol

I love wrestling; pro wrestling was my favorite sport b4 football, & basketball. There’s not one wrestling move I can’t execute, but the hypocrisy among both AEW & WWE has me holding my stomach in laughter.

 

[Calinative]

My Wrestling contribution:

Loved:
Undertaker, Stone Cold, The Rock, Rey Mysterio, Kane, Jeff Hardy, Dudley Boyz, Mick Foley, Booker T, Lita

Hated:
Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels (except the sweet chinn music finisher), Triple H, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Edge, Christian, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, RVD, Golddust, Goldberg, Bradshaw, Matt Hardy, Ryback, SGT Slaughter

Was this useful?

 

[GojiraCane]

Vince set up everything that’s making money right now. When he left, the company was very healthy. I agree he was past his prime and Triple H took it to a new, modern level. But it was an Urban Meyer/Ryan Day handoff.

As we learned from Tony Khan’s flameout, this stuff is hard. Vince is the best promoter of all-time, and there is no real #2.

There have been very, very few successful promoters. All of them fade out for varying reasons. For some it is an inability to adapt (Verne, Fritz). For others, it’s outside factors or poor spending choices (Crockett, Heyman). Vince was the only one to have a second act (Attitude Era), and by the combination of winning the Monday Night War and gaining a virtual monopoly and the rise of content rights he ensured the survival of WWE despite whatever creative decisions that he would then make.

Tony Khan was a huge wrestling fan and fantasy booker who had a great initial business model:

1. Do the opposite of what late-era Vince had done that upset fans. WWE had become so safe and ossified by 2019, and to boot incredibly self indulgent and booked to please not an outside audience, but one man. AEW could stand out by booking for disaffected fans

2. Have the funding to sustain losses for five years until AEW got to its third content deal. They did, and are now profitable to an extent.

To the first point, the biggest blow to AEW was Vince losing the creative reigns. A competently run WWE was its biggest threat, because now Tony would no longer be able to build its identity around a company that did right what WWE did wrong. AEW didn’t have forty years of goodwill, WWE did and fans returned. A wrestling audience that was 65 / 35 in favor of WWE in 2001 is now probably 92 / 8. Tony Khan is now trying to establish what AEW’s identity will be going forward.

AEW as well has done themselves no favors. They squandered 2023 by filling their shows with storyline less matches. I think that there must have been a string of twenty straight Dynamites that opened with Orange Cassidy facing someone for no reason. Attendance and viewership began to decline that year, and aside from Punk drama it was a contributing factor.

 

[GojiraCane]

So, it was BRET and not...

the steroid trial in 93? Vince had to pay tons in legal fees for that, and that alone nearly put the company under.
The **** poor reputation wrestling had post-Hogan as Vince's scumbaggery is starting to make its way into pop culture (like the Ring Boy Scandal) ... wrestling just wasn't popular then, and its mostly Vince's fault...like when he showed *** on Donahue for the nation to see in 1992)

Vince's overall vision of the product at the time? (this was the era with Doink the Clown and other cartoon gimmicks)...he pushed talent like Lex Luger, Bob Backlund, Diesel, Michaels, SID, and Taker all before Bret left the company after Hogan at the top and filled the roster with cartoons. Many were draws before (Backlund) and would be later (Nash/Hall, Michaels and Taker as well, although, both of them are dinged for the same reason Hart was...not as good of a draw as Hogan and Austin). There were a TON of regional draws he had hired and turned them into goofs (Ric Flair being the most egregious - he was way more than a regional draw, but talent like Hennig, Lawler, Jarrett, Rougeaus, among others were turned into cartoon characters...he made money off of BamBam Bigelow one time, with Lawrence Taylor)

Vince not understanding that Hulk Hogan still had juice left to squeeze?

The new company that took the lowest TV draw as champion (Nash) and made something very popular with him - the dismissed Hogan, and WWE mid-card-ish Scott Hall? Vince's inability to create compelling characters and stories to compete with the competition wasn't it, it was Bret?

When Bret showed up in WCW, he was a draw.

When you look at the context between both eras (Hogan to Austin...that "new generation era") Bret was even a draw (albeit, by a slim margin) by that context.

13 wws the lowest Manias - from the New Gen Era - and Bret wasn't in the main. 12 did (the Iron Man Match) and it popped more than the next year with Taker.

Summerslam 92 (Bret in the main) gate was only recently broken by AEW. When they were barely holding on in that early 90s period, they would do European tours with Bret on top because he drew in Europe.

...but it was Bret?

The problem with Bret was that he never got that win over a Hogan or Warrior or even Savage to establish him as the legit next headliner. He beat Flair on a match that was never televised (at the time). 1992 was such a unique time; WWE lost so much talent so quickly (Hogan on hiatus, Warrior fired, Bulldog fired, Piper getting a hip replacement, Hawk quits, Sid walks out, Jake forces his release). Bret never got that victory over a huge name that everyone could see.

As for the corny gimmicks, it was Vince and Pat amping things up to compensate for the lack of steroids. Wrestlers could no longer have larger than life looks, so the company compensated with larger than life characters (which often put the now diminished wrestlers in full body costumes). And if you watched both WCW and the WWF, by 1994 the company was prominently featuring two guys who had been completed no factors in WCW (Razor Ramon…aka WCW’s Diamond Studd, and Diesel…aka WCW’s Vinnie Vegas / Oz). In a way it was even worse than Paul Roma getting a spot in the Horsemen. At least Roma was in a good tag-team in WWE after having previously been an enhancement talent.