Tom Brady to Tampa?

He threw 30 INTs. That's a lot.

And it must be emphasized, his picks completely destroyed the team's chances for success. SIX losses by one TD or less. Including 2 OT losses. Including a pick-six to lose the final game, an OT loss.

WITH a coach who has known him for years, liked him, and wanted him to succeed. With an OC who had a similar background and wanted him to succeed.

Winston was, literally, given everything possible to succeed, including offensive weapons that, with Tom Brady at the helm, are expected to allow the Bucs to make a deep playoff run, and possibly even be a Super Bowl favorite. With (predominantly) JUST A CHANGE OF QUARTERBACK.

Those factors speak volumes. 5000 yards and 30 TDs are just stats.

This is exactly right. QB’s are the one position where the numbers don’t even tell half the story. We personally saw Jarren put up some of the best stats in the country for a stretch early in the season, but anyone with eyes could see he wasnt doing what he needed to do for us to win games.

Jarren wasn’t losing us games, he just wasn’t winning them for us. Jamies was outright losing games for the Bucs this past year
 
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You are also missing my point. It's not as simple as saying "Winston threw 30 ints, Winston sucks."

Are we nitpicking or looking at the entire picture and adding context? Nitpicking is citing those 6 games without saying how many 0 int games within those 6.

Yes Winston has had his issues off the field but heaven forbids he gives up drinking and hasn't had any issues since.

When Highseas analyzes Hurricane games, this board listens to what he has to say. When he is telling y'all what's going on with the Bucs, he is called delusional. Winston is a nole and on his way out. What reason would we have to cap for him?

Lol at you citing Philip Rivers who signed for 1 yr, and Chase Daniels whi signed to be a backup.


I'm not nitpicking.

I pointed out the 30 INTs because someone selectively quoted his stats (5,000 yards, 30 TDs), without including the 30 INTs.

Then, when there is an attempt to minimize the 30 INTs, I called BS.

Generally. Not nitpicking. Not one year. Five years of horrendous turnovers (INTs and Fumbles) when he should be getting better, has all the weapons, and this stuff is still happening, right down to the final football play of 2019.

Oh, now we are supposed to give Winston a cookie because he "stopped drinking"? THEN WHAT EXPLAINS THE INTS? Come on, man, no matter what Winston does (stop drinking, promise to be a better man, stop hanging out with his criminal fixer Ronald Darby), he still makes mistakes on and off the field, even if off-field is getting "better" in his mid-20s.

I'm not going to analyze your reasons for defending Winston. I've been following the Bucs since 1976 (I'm from Orlando) and I have stopped supporting them during the Winston debacle years. But you can still analyze the impact he has on the team, without focusing on his "drinking" or whatever other excuse he makes.

Yes, I cited guys with either less talent or more mileage. DO THEY HAVE CONTRACTS? Yes they do. The point is not what role they will be playing, the point is that no team offered Winston a starting job at 12:01 am when free agency opened. Whether they are worried about on-field or off-field, I don't care. If on-field was enough to overpower off-field, he'd already have a signed contract. He does not.

If you don't care that much, why are you making such an effort?

I never said Winston "sucked". He is not as bad as some. But he is also not some golden child who is "right around the corner" from greatness. He has serious personality issues that have persisted for a decade, ones that lead him into conflict and bad decision-making. Throwing 20 to 30 million per year at that doesn't change the base personality.
 
Someone needs to offer Winston a million dollars a year to play QB, and then we'll see if he's serious about playing football. Lord knows, he has already stolen millions from the Bucs, so let's see if he's willing to earn the trust.
 
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I don't think it's nitpicking to criticize Winston. It's the easy, obvious, convenient position. It's when you dig deeper and nitpick the Bucs as a whole that you see Winston was far from the root issue.
 
The question is since we seem to have a lot of Bucs fans...Tom Brady is 42 years old, he has at most 1-2 more years..if that...what is the strategy beyond those 1-2 years?

The hope is Brady gets us the ship this year, retires and Winston is brought back. Everyone wins. If Brady stays 2 years and Winston isn't available in 2021 we're gonna be looking at sketchy rookies like Justin Herbert types or journeyman Andy Dalton types. It's gonna be rough.
 
The hope is Brady gets us the ship this year, retires and Winston is brought back. Everyone wins. If Brady stays 2 years and Winston isn't available in 2021 we're gonna be looking at sketchy rookies like Justin Herbert types or journeyman Andy Dalton types. It's gonna be rough.

Andy Dalton is better than Winston
 
I'm not nitpicking.

I pointed out the 30 INTs because someone selectively quoted his stats (5,000 yards, 30 TDs), without including the 30 INTs.

Then, when there is an attempt to minimize the 30 INTs, I called BS.

Generally. Not nitpicking. Not one year. Five years of horrendous turnovers (INTs and Fumbles) when he should be getting better, has all the weapons, and this stuff is still happening, right down to the final football play of 2019.

Oh, now we are supposed to give Winston a cookie because he "stopped drinking"? THEN WHAT EXPLAINS THE INTS? Come on, man, no matter what Winston does (stop drinking, promise to be a better man, stop hanging out with his criminal fixer Ronald Darby), he still makes mistakes on and off the field, even if off-field is getting "better" in his mid-20s.

I'm not going to analyze your reasons for defending Winston. I've been following the Bucs since 1976 (I'm from Orlando) and I have stopped supporting them during the Winston debacle years. But you can still analyze the impact he has on the team, without focusing on his "drinking" or whatever other excuse he makes.

Yes, I cited guys with either less talent or more mileage. DO THEY HAVE CONTRACTS? Yes they do. The point is not what role they will be playing, the point is that no team offered Winston a starting job at 12:01 am when free agency opened. Whether they are worried about on-field or off-field, I don't care. If on-field was enough to overpower off-field, he'd already have a signed contract. He does not.

If you don't care that much, why are you making such an effort?

I never said Winston "sucked". He is not as bad as some. But he is also not some golden child who is "right around the corner" from greatness. He has serious personality issues that have persisted for a decade, ones that lead him into conflict and bad decision-making. Throwing 20 to 30 million per year at that doesn't change the base personality.
I have time. Im riding through the Guadalupe mountains with nothing else to do but more importantly cause I want to keep responding. That's what we do on message boards. That doesn't mean I care. I'm wasting as much energy as you and everyone else. Do you care that much to keep going back and forth even though you dont support TB?

Why would I mention 30 ints when the ppl I'm responding to keeps mentioning it and I'm arguing that they are minimizing all the yrds and TDs?

If you never said he sucks then I'm not talking to you. In my very first reply to you I said, "I never said 30 ints weren't a problem. I'm just not dismissing Winston like he is a scrub" I also said to another poster that their is levels in between sucking and the top tier. So who's acting like he is some golden child just around the corner from greatness? You are cherry picking my post instead of collectively putting them together and seeing my point. You basically agreed with my overall point when you said he is not as bad as some. That's all I'm trying to get across to those acting like he is the bottom of the barrel.

The quit drinking comment was a direct response to you talking about the investigations and questioning his leadership. He keeps having off the field issues? How many issues has he had since he quit drinking? You brought up the off the field issues like he hasn't turned his life around to this point.

Once again context is everything. How does it not matter what role they will be playing? If Winston wants something long term why would Detroit offer Winston? What are the Colts plans with Rivers?

You dont have to analyze anything about me. I basically told you we have no reason to cap for him. We just have a difference of opinions on the root cause of the team.
 
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I have time. Im riding through the Guadalupe mountains with nothing else to do but more importantly cause I want to keep responding. That's what we do on message boards. That doesn't mean I care. I'm wasting as much energy as you and everyone else. Do you care that much to keep going back and forth even though you dont support TB?

Why would I mention 30 ints when the ppl I'm responding to keeps mentioning it and I'm arguing that they are minimizing all the yrds and TDs?

If you never said he sucks then I'm not talking to you. In my very first reply to you I said, "I never said 30 ints weren't a problem. I'm just not dismissing Winston like he is a scrub" I also said to another poster that their is levels in between sucking and the top tier. So who's acting like he is some golden child just around the corner from greatness? You are cherry picking my post instead of collectively putting them together and seeing my point. You basically agreed with my overall point when you said he is not as bad as some. That's all I'm trying to get across to those acting like he is the bottom of the barrel.

The quit drinking comment was a direct response to you talking about the investigations and questioning his leadership. He keeps having off the field issues? How many issues has he had since he quit drinking? You brought up the off the field issues like he hasn't turned his life around to this point.

Once again context is everything. How does it not matter what role they will be playing? If Winston wants something long term why would Detroit offer Winston? What are the Colts plans with Rivers?

You dont have to analyze anything about me. I basically told you we have no reason to cap for him. We just have a difference of opinions on the root cause of the team.


Relax, man. There are things that you have said, and there is the generalized "Bucs fan" commentary about how there will be some sort of calamity over "giving up too soon" on Winston. I'm commenting on both your post and the general commentary out there. I'll take the blame if I over-assumed that your defense of Winston puts you in the "we let him go right when he was getting good" camp.

Enjoy your travels.
 
Relax, man. There are things that you have said, and there is the generalized "Bucs fan" commentary about how there will be some sort of calamity over "giving up too soon" on Winston. I'm commenting on both your post and the general commentary out there. I'll take the blame if I over-assumed that your defense of Winston puts you in the "we let him go right when he was getting good" camp.

Enjoy your travels.
Appreciate it and It's all good my dude. I dont mean to come off abrasive. I just know I have to bring it when talking to you because I know you are strong minded from seeing you interact with others here lol.

If you ever in Tampa I'll definitely sit down and toss a few back with you.
 
The hope is Brady gets us the ship this year, retires and Winston is brought back. Everyone wins. If Brady stays 2 years and Winston isn't available in 2021 we're gonna be looking at sketchy rookies like Justin Herbert types or journeyman Andy Dalton types. It's gonna be rough.
Crablegs has always been talented...he squinted his way to a natty as FSPoo, but he's a feast or famine type of QB. sure he'll put up big numbers...30TD's and 5k yards as he has very good receivers..but he'll also throw 30 INT's. I do recall watching a few FSPoo games while he was squinting...and he threw quite a few 50/50 balls that he got away with then.

Somehow with 1-2 years of Brady...which will be good...but I don't think it makes Tampa a contender. I still think KC will be the prohibitive favorite to win it all. Crablegs will not be back.
 
The hope is Brady gets us the ship this year, retires and Winston is brought back. Everyone wins. If Brady stays 2 years and Winston isn't available in 2021 we're gonna be looking at sketchy rookies like Justin Herbert types or journeyman Andy Dalton types. It's gonna be rough.

brady wasnt good last year tho. he was basically average and got worse and worse as the season wore on. i think of the pats as the smartest FA in the league (as most do) and letting him walk was telling (like riley refusing to pay wade who was past his prime)
 
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brady wasnt good last year tho. he was basically average and got worse and worse as the season wore on. i think of the pats as the smartest FA in the league (as most do) and letting him walk was telling (like riley refusing to pay wade who was past his prime)

bill b wanted to keep jimmy g for this reason
 
brady wasnt good last year tho. he was basically average and got worse and worse as the season wore on. i think of the pats as the smartest FA in the league (as most do) and letting him walk was telling (like riley refusing to pay wade who was past his prime)

I'm not an Orlovsky fan but he posted a vid of Brady vs. Miami where he was driving the ball down the field very impressively. Statistically Brady's accuracy dipped last year but his arm isn't dead like late career Manning or even Brees to an extent. Pats basically had no one for him to throw to.

Pats letting him walk was like Richt letting Kaaya walk. They just don't care to convince him to stay. Belichick has a huge ego. Was letting Kaaya walk for Rosier a good move?
 
I don't think it's nitpicking to criticize Winston. It's the easy, obvious, convenient position. It's when you dig deeper and nitpick the Bucs as a whole that you see Winston was far from the root issue.
How? He threw 30 int, fumbled 5 times, 7 pick 6, and had 10+ int dropped. Dude is terrible and completely responsible for the losses. Defense was top 5 last 6 games and the sacks came because he held the ball way too long.
 
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