This is why Butch Barry is the most important position coach

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Part of this is scheme as well. We didn't use deception. We didn't help our QBs identify coverages by using motion. We ran predictable plays in predictable down and distances. I'm not saying our OL was anywhere near perfect, but it's hard to win battles when the other team has a headstart and they're either as good or better than your guys.

Is it possible to like this post 1 billion times? Especially the first 2 sentences?
 
@DMoney is dead on. Barry's hire and development of OL is going to be key. Lack of development there and the lack of coaching up has been a big part of our problem. I bring nothing to the site but the obvious
 
Clemson's OL was the unsung MVP of the title game. They controlled Alabama's front. Miami's OL, by contrast, struggled to move Savannah St.

I took the starting lineup from the title game and the Pinstripe Bowl. Here's how it shakes out, via the 247 Composite rating:

Mitch Hyatt- 98.97
John Simpson- 93.32
Justin Falcinelli- 86.56
Gage Cervenka- 84.95
Tremayne Anchrum- 87.06

Average- 90.172

Tyree St. Louis- 90.01
Venzell Boulware- 88.72
Hayden Mahoney- 84.93
Navaughn Donaldson- 96.55
Delone Scaife- 93.78

Average- 90.798

We need to recruit better on OL, especially after last year. But it is much more important that we coach up the talented players we already have.

The offensive line is the most important position group at Miami, though rarely thought of as such by so many.

We have to finally address this ****....it is amazing how much skill talent here has to work too hard for what they get. If we can ever get this group right, nobody will be able to stop us.

UM
 
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Clemson's OL was the unsung MVP of the title game. They controlled Alabama's front. Miami's OL, by contrast, struggled to move Savannah St.

I took the starting lineup from the title game and the Pinstripe Bowl. Here's how it shakes out, via the 247 Composite rating:

Mitch Hyatt- 98.97
John Simpson- 93.32
Justin Falcinelli- 86.56
Gage Cervenka- 84.95
Tremayne Anchrum- 87.06

Average- 90.172

Tyree St. Louis- 90.01
Venzell Boulware- 88.72
Hayden Mahoney- 84.93
Navaughn Donaldson- 96.55
Delone Scaife- 93.78

Average- 90.798

We need to recruit better on OL, especially after last year. But it is much more important that we coach up the talented players we already have.

So we had the higher rated line coming in? Coaching remains our problem much more than recruiting.
 
We have five OL in the NFL. All five started at least one game.

Clemson only has one OL who even played in the NFL last year. And that guy only played because the starter (Brandon Linder, the highest paid C of all-time) got hurt.

To be clear, I expect this to change. Clemson is going to start bringing in monsters on the OL. But they got to the peak of the mountain with worse OL talent than we've had for much of the past decade.
Our OL in the NFL are not recent kids, and not indicative of the guys we have on the roster now. Nor Searels’ evals. Surely you don’t mean that. Not even sure why you’d go there. Linder wasnt a recent eval for UM, and his contract has nothing to do with this topic. You yourself note Clemson’s talent on Ol is heading up and ours isn’t. That’s the point.

Linder and Seantrel were Randy recruits IIRC. McDermott was a local 4* legacy kid. Obviously our coaching has to get better, but no one thinks our current OL roster matches Clemson on talent.
 
Part of this is scheme as well. We didn't use deception. We didn't help our QBs identify coverages by using motion. We ran predictable plays in predictable down and distances. I'm not saying our OL was anywhere near perfect, but it's hard to win battles when the other team has a headstart and they're either as good or better than your guys.
Couldn't agree more that scheme and predictable play calling put our OL at a disadvantage before the ball was even snapped. As many have noticed, one of the most encouraging things I've heard Enos state was that he would determine what our players do best and scheme to use those strengths to their advantage.
 
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Watch Mahoney become all ACC at BC.

80065
 
Just to take the devil's advocate side here....

It could also be that we're not doing a great job of IDENTIFYING good prospects on the offensive line. I tend to put a lot of emphasis on star rankings, but, if there's one position where stars probably don't matter as much, it would have to be offensive line.

I rather like what I'm hearing these days, about finding slimmer kids with athletic ability and bulking them up. I think that's probably a better approach than going after the overweight kids who are 300+ lbs in high school. ... and then they show up and they can't move. The one thing you can't teach is athletic ability.

I don't have any evidence that this is the best way to go, but I think offensive line is like any other position - athleticism is important. Give me a guy who's 250 with a lot of twitch and athletic ability over a guy who's 310 lbs and fat.

I think scouting services overvalue kids on the o-line who are big and fat, just because they are able to push around their high school comp. Better to get a guy with a good frame, who puts on muscle easily, who has a high athletic ceiling, and coach/bulk him up IMO.
All you need to know about our evals is Gluten took Brandon Loftus. No one who watched Loftus play in HS or camps thought he was a P5 player. Most I recall thought he wasn’t even a D1 kid.

‘13: Odogwu, Knighton, Gall
‘14: Joe Brown, Nick Linder, Trevor Darling, KC McDermott
‘15: Jahair Jones, Bar Milo, Brandon Loftus, Gauthier, Mahoney, St Louis

‘16: Tre Johnson
‘17: Dykstra, Herbert, Hillery, Gaynor, Donaldson
 
Our OL in the NFL are not recent kids, and not indicative of the guys we have on the roster now. Nor Searels’ evals. Surely you don’t mean that. Not even sure why you’d go there. Linder wasnt a recent eval for UM, and his contract has nothing to do with this topic. You yourself note Clemson’s talent on Ol is heading up and ours isn’t. That’s the point.

Linder and Seantrel were Randy recruits IIRC. McDermott was a local 4* legacy kid. Obviously our coaching has to get better, but no one thinks our current OL roster matches Clemson on talent.

Nobody really knows about Searels’ evals because most of them haven’t played yet. I like the guys he brought in the ‘17 and ‘18 classes. That story has yet to be told.

But even when we had an OL full of NFL players, people were complaining about how soft they were. It’s hard to see their true talent when the unit is underachieving.
 
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Nobody really knows about Searels’ evals because most of them haven’t played yet. I like the guys he brought in the ‘17 and ‘18 classes. That story has yet to be told.

But even when we had an OL full of NFL players, people were complaining about how soft they were. It’s hard to see their true talent when the unit is underachieving.
As I have been saying for ages, it’s not this or that or the other thing, it’s all of it. Bad evals, lazy recruiting, crap S&C, bad coaching.

IMO searels ‘17 class will not look like good evals. We’ll see. I am skeptical that Dykstra, Herbert and Hillary are ever front line players for us. T. Johnson in ‘16 was obviously a bad take. Searels also misevaluated the talent he inherited, or they would havw scrambled to do more in ‘16 and via transfers (eventually Richt brouht in Boulware). As for ‘18, Scaife was an obvious take and talented kid. Reed looks the part but we’ll see. Campbell seems like he has athletic upside and I’m optimistic, but again, no evidence yet.

Kehoe, well, you know....
 
S&C also plays a BIG part in this. I agree with everything you said, but sometimes line play comes down to "want to" and strength. Especially in the cases you're talking about like not being able to move Savannah State. That's not technique. That's size and strength.

Miami got HANDLED up front by LSU. It wasn't a coaching problem. It was a physical problem.

That being said, you're 100% correct. Games are won up front. It's no surprise the Rams and Pats had the best 2 lines all year and look where they ended up. Bama and Clemson, above everything else, EXCELLENT on the offensive line. There's no one single thing above the other...having a creative offense helps a weak OL. Having a really good QB helps a weak OL. But you occasionally see a very boring and vanilla offense put up points. You see an average QB lead a good offense. But very rarely do you see a potent offense with a bad offensive line.
 
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Part of this is scheme as well. We didn't use deception. We didn't help our QBs identify coverages by using motion. We ran predictable plays in predictable down and distances. I'm not saying our OL was anywhere near perfect, but it's hard to win battles when the other team has a headstart and they're either as good or better than your guys.

This
 
Clemson's OL was the unsung MVP of the title game. They controlled Alabama's front. Miami's OL, by contrast, struggled to move Savannah St.

I took the starting lineup from the title game and the Pinstripe Bowl. Here's how it shakes out, via the 247 Composite rating:

Mitch Hyatt- 98.97
John Simpson- 93.32
Justin Falcinelli- 86.56
Gage Cervenka- 84.95
Tremayne Anchrum- 87.06

Average- 90.172

Tyree St. Louis- 90.01
Venzell Boulware- 88.72
Hayden Mahoney- 84.93
Navaughn Donaldson- 96.55
Delone Scaife- 93.78

Average- 90.798

We need to recruit better on OL, especially after last year. But it is much more important that we coach up the talented players we already have.
I don't think any of us disagree with u. coaching on oline was pathetic. there is talent there although first thing richt said was we need tackles I don't se any tackles and in 3 yrs used goldens guys who weren't tackles at tackle. The talent is there if we get a coach who can get it out of them. This is also where the s&c can really help with getting the bad weight off and good weight on
 
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