forums

This could get...interesting...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Advertisement
JD08 said:
We debated this before, but other than the fact that it was done in 1890, there's no reason to believe it was anything other than a red St. Andrews cross reminiscent of the Cross of Burgundy from the Spanish colonial days. The governor at the time wanted it changed because it was just the seal on a white flag and he felt it looked too much like a white truce flag, which is understandable for any soldier, regardless of where/when they served.
Click to expand...


Except...it's not true.

Four of the first five states to secede were Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi. Georgia and Mississippi have had blatant use of the stars-and-bars and/or the battle flag.

Florida and Alabama were more subtle. The both changed their flag to the St. Andrews cross/southern cross AT THE SAME TIME.

Neither one is the "Cross of Burgundy", which has jagged lines. Neither state was trying to honor "Spanish colonial days". Neither flag is the "St. Andrew's cross", which is a WHITE cross on a BLUE flag (flag of Scotland).

Look, states can say whatever they want to "justify" their flags. Georgia claims that the 13 stars on their flag represent "the thirteen original colonies", even though their flag is a direct copy of the Confederate flag known as "stars-and-bars" (with the Georgia state seal stuck in the middle of the stars). The very first stars-and-bars had 7 stars, eventually growing to 13 stars.

Wait, why 13 stars, when there were only 11 Confederate states? Because the Confederacy tried to claim Missouri and Kentucky for their cause (since those were slave states).

So, yeah, Georgia can make up whatever it wants to justify the 13 stars, it doesn't make the explanation the truth.
 
Notsince1985 said:
It's in a letter in Governor Fleming's official papers, which I believe are all online now, but were housed in Tallahassee at the state archives and are now at the Florida Historical Society.
Click to expand...
All I could find were these two articles.


www.miaminewtimes.com

Is Florida's State Flag "the Most Overtly Racist Symbol in the United States"?

Florida's official state flag may be the only state Flag in the entire union to feature a woman of color on it, but is it also "the most overtly racist symbol in the United States?" That's what T.D. Allman, historian and author of "Finding Florida: The True History of the...
www.miaminewtimes.com www.miaminewtimes.com
 
People forget that the flags of Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi were removed from the US Capitol 4 years ago.

www.reuters.com

U.S. Capitol replacing flag display over Confederate imagery

A display of U.S. state flags in a tunnel under Washington's Capitol complex will be replaced because of controversial Confederate symbols on some of the flags, an administrative committee said on Thursday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
JD08 said:
All I could find were these two articles.


www.miaminewtimes.com

Is Florida's State Flag "the Most Overtly Racist Symbol in the United States"?

Florida's official state flag may be the only state Flag in the entire union to feature a woman of color on it, but is it also "the most overtly racist symbol in the United States?" That's what T.D. Allman, historian and author of "Finding Florida: The True History of the...
www.miaminewtimes.com www.miaminewtimes.com
Click to expand...

There are a couple of historians that I know of, one who I'm friends with, James Clark at UCF who disagree, and say it's from the Spanish, We've had heated (sometimes drunken) debates about it. I'll die on this hill. I don't see how it could be about anything else, when the Governor said it was, at the time it was put in place, in the context, and when almost every other Southern state did the same thing.
 
Notsince1985 said:
There are a couple of historians that I know of, one who I'm friends with, James Clark at UCF who disagree, and say it's from the Spanish, We've had heated (sometimes drunken) debates about it. I'll die on this hill. I don't see how it could be about anything else, when the Governor said it was, at the time it was put in place, in the context, and when almost every other Southern state did the same thing.
Click to expand...


And at the same time.

But, but, but, Florida and Alabama both decided to honor their former Spanish colonizers in the 1890s...

Yeah, that's a load of crap.
 
Advertisement
TheOriginalCane said:
Except...it's not true.

Four of the first five states to secede were Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi. Georgia and Mississippi have had blatant use of the stars-and-bars and/or the battle flag.

Florida and Alabama were more subtle. The both changed their flag to the St. Andrews cross/southern cross AT THE SAME TIME.

Neither one is the "Cross of Burgundy", which has jagged lines. Neither state was trying to honor "Spanish colonial days". Neither flag is the "St. Andrew's cross", which is a WHITE cross on a BLUE flag (flag of Scotland).

Look, states can say whatever they want to "justify" their flags. Georgia claims that the 13 stars on their flag represent "the thirteen original colonies", even though their flag is a direct copy of the Confederate flag known as "stars-and-bars" (with the Georgia state seal stuck in the middle of the stars). The very first stars-and-bars had 7 stars, eventually growing to 13 stars.

Wait, why 13 stars, when there were only 11 Confederate states? Because the Confederacy tried to claim Missouri and Kentucky for their cause (since those were slave states).

So, yeah, Georgia can make up whatever it wants to justify the 13 stars, it doesn't make the explanation the truth.
Click to expand...
Florida changed theirs 5 years after Alabama, but close enough. Likewise, I don't think adopting Scotland's flag was going to happen either. The St Andrews inspired by the cross of Burgundy always made sense to me. Our national colors are red, white and blue. I assume changing it from red to blue would also be a problem, so are you suggesting we completely get rid of it?

Georgia is a completely different discussion. There's no way to explain it away.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
And at the same time.

But, but, but, Florida and Alabama both decided to honor their former Spanish colonizers in the 1890s...

Yeah, that's a load of crap.
Click to expand...
Florida put a Native American woman on their flag 10 years after trying to wipe them out. I can see adding the red cross as an homage to a war 35 years in the past when people start to reflect back. I can also see it being completely benign. The only one that knows for certain is long gone.
 
CaneOil said:
Trump is a riot he is no guest speaker. lol While you're in line is just as fun meeting other nice people. And the people who go to Trump rallies love this country and are willing to die for it believe me. Dumb *** liberals have no clue. The first rally was small maybe 4k, every single one got bigger as they went on. The last one had about 30k. We would have loved the Antifa crowd to come on our side of the fence, pussies. You don't have a clue to what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

1592595752241.webp
 
Notsince1985 said:
I have a Ph D in Southern and Florida history. I've published a book on Florida in the Civil War, I've published several articles on Florida and the Lost Cause. Sorry, I'm not trying to be an a$$ but you're wrong. Governor Fleming even said it was when it was it was adopted.
Click to expand...

This excerpt is from the state's website...

"The current design of Florida's state flag was adopted in 1900. In that year, Florida voters ratified a constitutional amendment based on an 1899 joint resolution of the state legislature to add diagonal red bars, in the form of a St. Andrew's cross, to the flag."

 
coachpatg said:
This excerpt is from the state's website...

"The current design of Florida's state flag was adopted in 1900. In that year, Florida voters ratified a constitutional amendment based on an 1899 joint resolution of the state legislature to add diagonal red bars, in the form of a St. Andrew's cross, to the flag."

Click to expand...

Yes, and the rebel battle flag was taken from the St. Andrew's cross.
 
Advertisement
Old Gregg said:
I legit thought you were kidding, but I guess you aren't?

Political rallies are for dopes and "low eared mongoloids" as @The Franchise would so eloquently put it.
Click to expand...
These degenerate redneck mutts on CIS are serious cultists. They will go to their graves supporting that blight on American history just because he's on their nerd political team.
 
CaneOil said:
But when does this BS stop? Is it going to go on forever until every little bit of history is erased?
Click to expand...

It's not erasing history at all. Did the Germans erase history when they took down all **** flags and put them in museums and history books? If you take down a flag and put in a museum or book, that's not erasing anything. There's a difference between studying history and honoring something. You don't study history by looking at flag flying over a building.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top