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The safety position

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nvlahos said:
I hope I’m wrong but at what point has Manny shown he’ll play talent over seniority?
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This is just ridiculous. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just pointing out that most of the people who keep repeating myths are among the least-informed and least-well-connected fans.

There's a difference between making a joke based on a perception, and turning a perception into some sort of false reality.

For instance, you could say "Hey, why does Manny Diaz support Florida's current Covid immunization strategy?" and then say "Because Manny loves the seniors!".

But that's completely different from concluding that Manny is deliberately keeping players on the bench simply because they are young.

Manny has been the head coach for 2 years. One of those years was Covid-impacted, when we had almost no spring/summer practice time for young guys to learn the playbook or practice the plays. Furthermore, we had a ton of younger players actually contract Covid during this past season, making them unavailable to practice/play.

It's like we even forget specifics, like putting Zion in as a freshman starter against the Gaytors.

I just wish people would be HONEST. We have not had the depth to even pull players out when they commit penalties, out of a fear that the replacement player would be a significant drop-off. We came close to having to cancel some games last year due to Covid outbreaks.

Now, if we had some loaded Alabama-caliber team and freshmen (who later go on to win Heismans and Outlands and Butkuses and such) were stuck on the bench behind seniors who go undrafted, then we can have a discussion.

Until then, most of this issue is just one of perception. I am quite certain that Manny is not doing all of his off-season-winning and taking every other action to improve the team (and his head coaching tenure), only to undermine it by keeping more-talented younger players on the bench in favor of less-talented upperclassmen.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
This is just ridiculous. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just pointing out that most of the people who keep repeating myths are among the least-informed and least-well-connected fans.

There's a difference between making a joke based on a perception, and turning a perception into some sort of false reality.

For instance, you could say "Hey, why does Manny Diaz support Florida's current Covid immunization strategy?" and then say "Because Manny loves the seniors!".

But that's completely different from concluding that Manny is deliberately keeping players on the bench simply because they are young.

Manny has been the head coach for 2 years. One of those years was Covid-impacted, when we had almost no spring/summer practice time for young guys to learn the playbook or practice the plays. Furthermore, we had a ton of younger players actually contract Covid during this past season, making them unavailable to practice/play.

It's like we even forget specifics, like putting Zion in as a freshman starter against the Gaytors.

I just wish people would be HONEST. We have not had the depth to even pull players out when they commit penalties, out of a fear that the replacement player would be a significant drop-off. We came close to having to cancel some games last year due to Covid outbreaks.

Now, if we had some loaded Alabama-caliber team and freshmen (who later go on to win Heismans and Outlands and Butkuses and such) were stuck on the bench behind seniors who go undrafted, then we can have a discussion.

Until then, most of this issue is just one of perception. I am quite certain that Manny is not doing all of his off-season-winning and taking every other action to improve the team (and his head coaching tenure), only to undermine it by keeping more-talented younger players on the bench in favor of less-talented upperclassmen.
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To add on we have ZERO idea what happens in practice, meetings, and other team situations that aren't in the public's eye.
 
Mikep said:
To add on we have ZERO idea what happens in practice, meetings, and other team situations that aren't in the public's eye.
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Right.

And, again, I'm not mad at any poster, I'm not mad at nvlahos or anything, I'm just tired of the overly simplistic myth-building.

Plus, coaches may make mistakes based on what they see in practice, and how they project things in game play. Let's not forget, famous "quarterback whisperer" Dan Mullet would have kept playing Feleipe Franks over Kyle Trash if Franks hadn't been injured.

I think we'll see more younger guys getting big opportunities in 2021.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
This is just ridiculous. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just pointing out that most of the people who keep repeating myths are among the least-informed and least-well-connected fans.

There's a difference between making a joke based on a perception, and turning a perception into some sort of false reality.

For instance, you could say "Hey, why does Manny Diaz support Florida's current Covid immunization strategy?" and then say "Because Manny loves the seniors!".

But that's completely different from concluding that Manny is deliberately keeping players on the bench simply because they are young.

Manny has been the head coach for 2 years. One of those years was Covid-impacted, when we had almost no spring/summer practice time for young guys to learn the playbook or practice the plays. Furthermore, we had a ton of younger players actually contract Covid during this past season, making them unavailable to practice/play.

It's like we even forget specifics, like putting Zion in as a freshman starter against the Gaytors.

I just wish people would be HONEST. We have not had the depth to even pull players out when they commit penalties, out of a fear that the replacement player would be a significant drop-off. We came close to having to cancel some games last year due to Covid outbreaks.

Now, if we had some loaded Alabama-caliber team and freshmen (who later go on to win Heismans and Outlands and Butkuses and such) were stuck on the bench behind seniors who go undrafted, then we can have a discussion.

Until then, most of this issue is just one of perception. I am quite certain that Manny is not doing all of his off-season-winning and taking every other action to improve the team (and his head coaching tenure), only to undermine it by keeping more-talented younger players on the bench in favor of less-talented upperclassmen.
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I agree with the overall premise. I put out numerous examples of Manny not favoring seniors for younger guys (Zion, Clark, Bandy, Carter, Garvin, Rooster/Don, J williams all got significant snaps over older guys)

I do think Manny needs a shorter leash on guys however. Carter takes a god awful angle and misses a tackle, pull his *** out, Pope/Wiggins drop consecutive passes, pull em out, Cam fumbles, pull him out. I am not saying you take away them being a starter, or they are benched the rest of the game, but they at least know there is a consequence for poor play. I agree we have not had the depth you would want but some guys just have bad games, no reason to keep trotting them out. Give a young buck a shot and if he screws up same treatment.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Right.

And, again, I'm not mad at any poster, I'm not mad at nvlahos or anything, I'm just tired of the overly simplistic myth-building.

Plus, coaches may make mistakes based on what they see in practice, and how they project things in game play. Let's not forget, famous "quarterback whisperer" Dan Mullet would have kept playing Feleipe Franks over Kyle Trash if Franks hadn't been injured.

I think we'll see more younger guys getting big opportunities in 2021.
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The problem is..people see the Patchan situation with him playing in front of GR 2 years ago, they see McCloud being out there last year, and they see Pope/Wiggins constantly getting PT over younger guys and they run with the narrative.

I dont think Manny plays the senority game. There is no doubt in my mind that guys like Pope, Wiggins and McCloud worked there a$$e$ off in the offseason, were big time players in practice..but for some reason, it didnt translate to the field. I think Mannys philosopy is that if you work hard in the offseason and practice well..you get the PT. Problem is, guys like the ones mentioned above just cant get it done when the lights are on and thats when it matters most. So fans think Manny plays seniors over younger guys no matter what.
 
DMoney said:
I get the feeling this is going to be the most debated position all season.

You have two starting seniors (Bolden and Hall) with NFL aspirations who want to play every snap. You have a super-senior (Carter) who has played since he got here. Then you have two freak shows (Avantae and JW) who are going to demand playing time and likely won't react well if they are sitting behind underperforming players. Finally, you've got two guys (Kam and Balom) who should be coach's favorites and will be practicing in spring.

Very interested to see how this plays out.
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Not a tough situation at all Bolden, Avante, JW, Kam and Balom.
Bolden we know can play. With new coaches I expect him to earn that 1st round potential.
Avante is the speed and read guy that will prevent chunk and over top plays.
JW speed and size to take away deep passes. Can handle athletic and Big TE's. Can blitz from edge and middle.
Kam is instinctual and can play the ball.
Balom showed well last year. With better coaching he'll be in position to make plays and ain't afraid of contact. Bit slower IMO than the previous mentioned.
Hall has had chances but just hasn't been consistent and tends to lose focus.
Carter better bulk up and become a mid sized speed LB or Striker.
 
Last year, Bubba Bolden was the guy I had my eye on as far as taking the next step in his game and this year he is still that guy for me. He flashed what he is capable of last year. (AA level ability) T-Rob can get him to play at that level for a full season I believe. I am very excited about the core secondary of Bolden-Stephenson-Blades Jr-Frierson-Couch (thats 3 guys who will almost certainly be All ACC selections in BB, TS, and AB2)...Let Ivey, Carter, etc fight it out with the youngin for the other 2-3 spots.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
This is just ridiculous. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just pointing out that most of the people who keep repeating myths are among the least-informed and least-well-connected fans.

There's a difference between making a joke based on a perception, and turning a perception into some sort of false reality.

For instance, you could say "Hey, why does Manny Diaz support Florida's current Covid immunization strategy?" and then say "Because Manny loves the seniors!".

But that's completely different from concluding that Manny is deliberately keeping players on the bench simply because they are young.

Manny has been the head coach for 2 years. One of those years was Covid-impacted, when we had almost no spring/summer practice time for young guys to learn the playbook or practice the plays. Furthermore, we had a ton of younger players actually contract Covid during this past season, making them unavailable to practice/play.

It's like we even forget specifics, like putting Zion in as a freshman starter against the Gaytors.

I just wish people would be HONEST. We have not had the depth to even pull players out when they commit penalties, out of a fear that the replacement player would be a significant drop-off. We came close to having to cancel some games last year due to Covid outbreaks.

Now, if we had some loaded Alabama-caliber team and freshmen (who later go on to win Heismans and Outlands and Butkuses and such) were stuck on the bench behind seniors who go undrafted, then we can have a discussion.

Until then, most of this issue is just one of perception. I am quite certain that Manny is not doing all of his off-season-winning and taking every other action to improve the team (and his head coaching tenure), only to undermine it by keeping more-talented younger players on the bench in favor of less-talented upperclassmen.
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Bingo.

Where is the evidence of All-ACC players being buried on the bench behind upperclassmen underperformers? Right, there is none. But this is CIS, where *****ing just to ***** without actually knowing your *** from a hole in the ground is par for the course.

I'm not going to take any time to actually think about it, because the claim is brainless, as most here are when it comes to anything that involves facts, but in 2016 didn't he start three true freshmen backers on his defense because they were better than the older kids? Didn't he play RJ McIntosh and Kendrick Norton on his defense very early on because they were better than the older kids? And just since he's been the Head Coach, didn't Scott Patchan transfer because he wasn't playing as a senior? I'm confused. How can you have the most experienced team in the country in 2021 when you do nothing but play older kids? Oh yeah, you can't, but since we don't deal in reality here, yep...Manny just plays older kids because he hates his job and his millions of dollars of salary and wants to lose both ASAP.
 
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AUcane said:
Not yet convinced that Mallory has the it factor to be a top notch 1A guy like Brevin was last year. He does have the ability and Arroyo is the truth.

The only way we take a step forward with WR is if 7/83/88/12 take a step forward. We've seen what the 6/8 product looks like and it will likely remain unchanged. The only saving grace for that position is if those 4 that I mentioned take a big step forward.

IMO the big question mark is going to be DE. Cam, Harvey, Williams need to have a great spring in order to have a solid DE2, DE3 on the team. I don't think any of our DEs are difference makers but they need to be solid.
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WR will be improved. You're forgetting the transfer Rambo. Rambo and Harley will be starters. We really only need one or two of the 7 young guys on the team to step up and give us a much improved receiving core.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Bingo.

Where is the evidence of All-ACC players being buried on the bench behind upperclassmen underperformers? Right, there is none. But this is CIS, where *****ing just to ***** without actually knowing your *** from a hole in the ground is par for the course.
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Greg Rousseau and Scott Patchan. That was the one example, and it was so absurd that Greg wasn't starting that the narrative took off
 
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TurnoverCane said:
ppl need to stop sleeping on brian balom, hes the one thats next in line. watch
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We not sleeping on the kid. He played admirably last season. He just has some freaks in the same room as him. Hes going to have to be a technician because hes not going to out-athlete anyone in that room unfortunately.
 
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[]_[] swag said:
Greg Rousseau and Scott Patchan. That was the one example, and it was so absurd that Greg wasn't starting that the narrative took off
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OK. One example in 5 years here. Although Rousseau was coming off a broken ankle, but sure, he probably should have been playing since Week 1 and playing a lot. Although, he was playing from Week 1, IIRC he had a sack in the gator and UNC games, but yeah didn't start and should have been. Point for CIS, deduct one from Manny. Ready....fight.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Go back to my question. There is a reason I asked it the way that I asked it.

You saw what happened to D'Eriq King. It was on TV. His knee buckled. You SAW an ACTUAL injury.

What is Avantae's injury? You never saw an injury. He was not "injured" making a football play.

So...read between the lines. That's not a personal attack or an insult, it's just a "follow the money" type of a suggestion. With King, we know what his injury is, we know what the surgery was, he has a timeline, he has rehab to do.

Avantae was not "injured" in the classical sense of the word. So whatever he has to do, however he has to be cleared for contact, is very nebulous. And might not follow the timeline that we wish it would follow.

In simple terms, 2021 might happen or it might not happen. Nobody really knows yet.
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I understand your POV, I never assumed it was an injury as I thought to myself maybe he has an illness that the school doesn't wanna disclose for his personal privacy purposes. But I had read somewhere about speculation for a neck injury albeit that's low hanging fruit due to our recent rash of retirements from players with neck issues.
 
I usually don't do ROK type of "hot takes" but I think both Williams should be moved around the field and tried at different positions (LB./Striker/S).
Especially James Williams who has been compared to Clemson's Isaiah Simmons by his high school coach Surtain. They moved him around all over the place and he made plays.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
OK. One example in 5 years here. Although Rousseau was coming off a broken ankle, but sure, he probably should have been playing since Week 1 and playing a lot. Although, he was playing from Week 1, IIRC he had a sack in the gator and UNC games, but yeah didn't start and should have been. Point for CIS, deduct one from Manny. Ready....fight.
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It all stems from the thought that the unknown is better than the known.

For example, we know Mccloud is a bad LBer. We don’t know if Huff is because he hasn’t played much, so there’s a chance he’s better.

There’s probably a reason that McCloud still plays, but that’s still an indictment on coaching whether it’s because of seniority or the young guys don’t know the playbook or aren’t good enough to pass him.
 
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