forums

NBA The GOAT Case For Lebron: Accomplishments

In all seriousness, you have to judge Lebron’s 1st years in the NBA as the same as anything IMO. He made the choice to forgo any college and go straight to the league. He’s a rare talent who was ready for that.
 
Advertisement
Memnon said:
View attachment 232652View attachment 232653

Kareem is the GOAT IMO, but MJ has as good an argument as anybody...

The only reason why LeBron has entered the debate is because the modern era propaganda machine spearheaded by Nick Wright have made it a flat stats argument & removed the context of the different eras.

LeBron is great without question, but it’s difficult to look at the totality of his career & perceive that to be the best resume of All-Time in NBA history. It’s a very good one, but the best ever? Idk, I can’t come to that conclusion.
Click to expand...

I have an affinity for The Capt. The media made him out as this aloof, difficult to be around individual. Kareem ain’t w/ the b.s, but I’ve had the pleasure of meeting him twice, randomly around Santa Monica & Brentwood. He was gracious, & humble & gave me the time a day to shoot a few words. He’s my father’s favorite player, period.

Kareem also often get overlooked for what he’s done in the game, & his accomplishments gets glossed over. My boys have had this discussion for a minute, like how r we going to conveniently skip over both Kareem & Kobe for LBJ in this discussion? Nick Wright fudges stats all the time for LBJ, & I get it, he’s a phenomenal player; once in a generation type; but, he has severe flaws to his game, which is y he needs a stacked team to win, & even then, he’s come up short many times.

The reason I don’t have Kareem as my GOAT, but is on my Mt Rushmore of Greatest is b/c I know Kareem’s status pre-Magic & how stanky LAL was w/ him leading. Also, MJ is the only athlete to be undefeated in a championship game while sweeping its MVP in any sport. MJ also has the most NBA Finals MVPs despite not playing in the most like Russell, Kareem, & LBJ. Finally, to avg. 41 ppg in the biggest stage of the NBA is unimaginable; not even Wilt can say that.

Those r the only reasons I slightly edge MJ over Kareem, but imo, Kareem is one of, if not thee most disrespected NBA icon ever. It infuriates me to no end, & I hate LAL.
 
chipcane said:
Is there anyone out there who actually WITNESSED both of these careers and has LJ as the goat? Great, great player. But there's only one MJ.
Click to expand...

It’s funny u say that, b/c lately I’ve peeped some youngins on YouTube who are reacting to MJ’s career highlights & they have been blown away.

They didn’t realize how many ankles he broke, how many bodies he caught going to the rack (most centers), his wizardry in mid air, creativeness in & around the hoop. One youngin said, bruh literally didn’t have a weakness to his game. The only semi-weakness MJ had was the 3 ball & that’s due to him playing in an era where there was no 3 point line in HS or College, so it wasn’t taught. However, by the time he started shooting the 3 w/ more consistency, he wasn’t good or bad, his numbers were avg.

All younger NBA players who got the privilege to play against both MJ & LBJ have testified that if Mike played in today’s league w/ the rule change, emphasis on the 3, & no big men to stop deter him, he would avg. about 45-50/per. That’s been universally stated.
 
FB_IMG_1678582462409.jpg
 
Advertisement
Rellyrell said:
Go ahead; b/c what u’ll provide r longevity stats.

MJ accomplished way more in a shorter period of time in an era that didn’t feature wide open lanes, no hand checking, or the 3-point era.

No one fears LBJ; he’s respected. MJ was feared.

LBJ played with more HOFers, All Stars, & Top 75 players than MJ, yet accomplished least. And he has a negative +/- box score for his career in the NBA Playoffs.
Click to expand...
We using box score plus minus in all time player debates? The nerds have won smh
 
Jordan is my goat but man the way yall view bron is so wild to me, it’s unlike any other great player. Its like he’s viewed as the anti jordan, the points lack context and are weak.

Like the jordan was feared bron was respected point..that **** is so weak man its like yall are enamored with mjs aura more than what he did on the court. Talk ball not narratives
 
Memnon said:
View attachment 232652View attachment 232653

Kareem is the GOAT IMO, but MJ has as good an argument as anybody...

The only reason why LeBron has entered the debate is because the modern era propaganda machine spearheaded by Nick Wright have made it a flat stats argument & removed the context of the different eras.

LeBron is great without question, but it’s difficult to look at the totality of his career & perceive that to be the best resume of All-Time in NBA history. It’s a very good one, but the best ever? Idk, I can’t come to that conclusion.
Click to expand...
This is cap, Bron entered the debate because of his level of play. People were saying it before nick wright even came around, he’s just on tv and how can u talk about propaganda when mj had the strongest propaganda of any star ever, which he deserved.
 
E1k said:
We using box score plus minus in all time player debates? The nerds have won smh
Click to expand...

Bruh, we can use box scores, +/-, accolades, career record, efficiency, defensive win shares, win shares defensive matrix, most win shares whatever u wanna do, MJ smokes LeBron.

What’s crazy about comparing the two is that we claim LBJ is the better overall player of the two, yet MJ was clearly the dominant two way player, & arguably the most dominant two way player in NBA history, and despite LBJ being known as a pass-first player (allegedly), he only avg. 2 more assist/game than MJ & 1 rebound more than him career wise. Lol.
 
Advertisement
E1k said:
Jordan is my goat but man the way yall view bron is so wild to me, it’s unlike any other great player. Its like he’s viewed as the anti jordan, the points lack context and are weak.

Like the jordan was feared bron was respected point..that **** is so weak man its like yall are enamored with mjs aura more than what he did on the court. Talk ball not narratives
Click to expand...

How is this “weak” when these are peers and competitors saying this in basketball. Tf? Lol
 
Rellyrell said:
Bruh, we can use box scores, +/-, accolades, career record, efficiency, defensive win shares, win shares defensive matrix, most win shares whatever u wanna do, MJ smokes LeBron.

What’s crazy about comparing the two is that we claim LBJ is the better overall player of the two, yet MJ was clearly the dominant two way player, & arguably the most dominant two way player in NBA history, and despite LBJ being known as a pass-first player (allegedly), he only avg. 2 more assist/game than MJ & 1 rebound more than him career wise. Lol.
Click to expand...
Plus minus is more of a lineup stat than anything, but im not even here to debate if mj is better or not i think he is but its just the disrespect for bron is insane to me. And if u look at assist or rbpg ppg as to who is better in this area then we just dont see stuff the same lmao mj is a very very underrated passer but he’s not close to bron there **** the assist numbers, he’s not the rebounder bron is either but thats not even fair to compare because they play two different positions and are 2 different builds

Rellyrell said:
How is this “weak” when these are peers and competitors saying this in basketball. Tf? Lol
Click to expand...
Because alot of that **** is just talk man lmao. I dont value that kinda **** i value what im seeing on the court.
 
Aura is difficult to prove tangibly, but definitely factors in. Take the 80's 'Canes for example. How many opponents were crappin' in their pants - forgetting how to catch and throw because of the intimidation factor? Jordan had a similar aura, and a handful of greats do too, just not to the degree Jordan did. Can't show you that on a stat sheet, but I witnessed it.
 
chipcane said:
Aura is difficult to prove tangibly, but definitely factors in. Take the 80's 'Canes for example. How many opponents were crappin' in their pants - forgetting how to catch and throw because of the intimidation factor? Jordan had a similar aura, and a handful of greats do too, just not to the degree Jordan did. Can't show you that on a stat sheet, but I witnessed it.
Click to expand...
Not saying you are wrong, i just value it differently than it seems most do. I’ll look at how great a player is on how teams guard him, for instance jordan vs pistons a great defensive team showed him a different level of respect than others, spurs or mavs vs lebron/pop or carlisle vs bron they played so many different defensive schemes vs him game to game, curry vs raptors and celtics they tried everything raptors went to a box and 1 which is ***** unheard of at the pro level, celtics respected his gravity so much they thought they would have a chance by playing drop because if u didn’t the entire team will kill u, shaq made the league play a zone cause of dominant he was. Harden in houston doubling him at half court to get the ball out of his hands i never seen something like that on a nightly basis.

I value that kinda **** more than who feared you personally or what aura you had to others.
 
Advertisement
Best All Around: Jordan
Most Dominant: Shaq

Then everyone else. You could probably start with Bird and Magic before discussing anyone else.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
Shaq more dominant than Wilt??....Not too sure about that...
Click to expand...
I don't like comparing anyone to Wilt. Especially comparing across decades. For his era, there is no comparison.

But the 2000-2002 run with the Lakers, have you ever seen anyone as physically dominant?
 
Advertisement
kendallcanes said:
I don't like comparing anyone to Wilt. Especially comparing across decades. For his era, there is no comparison.

But the 2000-2002 run with the Lakers, have you ever seen anyone as physically dominant?
Click to expand...
Again Wilt....I was old enough to have seen him play, and in person at Madison Square Garden as a kid in NYC. Wilt would've been dominant in any era.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
Shaq more dominant than Wilt??....Not too sure about that...
Click to expand...

Wilt gets the nod but man, he was way ahead of his peers in terms of his athletic ability. He was strong as an ox and could run with anyone. I'd put him up against anyone in the "greatest athlete to play basketball" debate.

This may be an unpopular opinion but like Kareem sometimes doesn't get his due, I think people fall all over themselves in saying Bill Russell is on the Mt Rushmore. GTFOOH. Great player but I don't know if he's even top 5 centers for me. JMO.
 
AUcane said:
Wilt gets the nod but man, he was way ahead of his peers in terms of his athletic ability. He was strong as an ox and could run with anyone. I'd put him up against anyone in the "greatest athlete to play basketball" debate.

This may be an unpopular opinion but like Kareem sometimes doesn't get his due, I think people fall all over themselves in saying Bill Russell is on the Mt Rushmore. GTFOOH. Great player but I don't know if he's even top 5 centers for me. JMO.
Click to expand...
I agree on Russell....And Kareem was a Beast. I was lucky to see all play at the Garden. (Although it was Russell's later days)
My Greatest Centers are
*Wilt
*Kareem
* Olajuwon
*Shaq
* Russell
 
SWFLHurricane said:
I agree on Russell....And Kareem was a Beast. I was lucky to see all play at the Garden. (Although it was Russell's later days)
My Greatest Centers are
*Wilt
*Kareem
* Olajuwon
*Shaq
* Russell
Click to expand...

That's my top 4 as well and one can argue Tim Duncan should be on that list since he played most of his career at center but that's arguable.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top