The Defensive Stats I think matter most

LuCane

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Since this is now breaking off into multiple threads. I'm going to begin the conversation here as to something specific:

Is there one "best way" to measure an effective defense?

To me, it's the one that gives the team, taking the offense into consideration, the best chance to win. So, how do we break that into numbers? Here's my view and then some of you guys can continue to argue about how we have a "bad" defense.

1. Scoring defense
- This is really what matters
2. Yards per play - Yards are important, sure, but we need context as to how many plays are being run.


3. Turnovers - Do they openly contribute to our field position and our ability to put points on the board?
4. 3rd down percentage - Can you get off the field to give your offense more advantages?

On #1 above, we are #23 in the country. This isn't an incredible statistic, but it surely isn't "bad" or "average." We are what we are so far: above average.

On #2 above, we are #16 in the country. Even today, where we allowed what seemed like a million yards to a bad team, we allowed about 4.6 yards per play on 93 plays. This was approximately 24 more plays than what UNC has averaged on the season.

To me, the two above are by far the most relevant defensive measures of success.
On #3 above, after this week, we'll probably be around #35 or better. This is a bit of a fickle statistic, but important in terms of what the defense can produce.

On #4 above, we need to get much better. We're in the bottom half of the NCAA. Although in ACC play, we're somehow far better. Today, we were at 33%.

Have at it. We're not nearly as bad as some have described. We need some work. No doubt. We miss tackles. We sometimes over-blitz. We sometimes get caught on blitzes with no chance of getting home. We take some poor angles. Yet, we still have held it together so far this season. What will occur going forward I have no idea. But, I wanted to make this post for some of the debates on the defense being "bad" and even "historically bad."
 
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IndayArtHauz

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If we had even a remotely competent offense this defense would be treated like royalty. Great post.
 

JCB

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Solid.

Some of these guys flying off the rocker don't take these things into consideration. The D is doing more than enough. They gave the Offense how many short fields today?

Let's start breaking down some of the Offense's key statistics. Like Points off turnovers, T.O.P., Red Zone TD Percentage, 3rd Down Conversion Percentage, Overall 1st Downs.
 

Canefam

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Nov 27, 2012
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3,812
Defense is not the problem with this team, its our offense. We have a slightly above average OL and Zero depth at TE and RB... Teams are crowding the line to stop the run or tp put pressure on the QB. We are not winning the one on one battles at WR because we are tiny at that position and they are playing off the ball. If we scored some freaking points early, the defense would turn into a monster. The issue is the offense, not defense.
 

mapcane

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Nov 4, 2011
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Lu, can you give us a breakdown of the offense in another thread? It makes my head hurt watching it. I am convinced that while we have personnel issues (Rosier, OL, lack of RB depth, young WRs), Richt is not getting the most out of them. I don't see our offense consistently "scheme" guys open for chain-moving first downs. I don't see any creativity in the run game or pass game. Have we ever run a pick play? Seems to me that the offense is predictable. Really would appreciate it if you could discuss this in another thread.
 

Gatorhater

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May 17, 2013
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17,211
This defense keeps the game close while the offense finds a way to score. Sometimes it lets down when we get a lead, but seems to be there at crunch time. I am note sure how to quantify that but today, we could have been down 21-0 but instead it was only 3-0.
 

KrazyCane

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If we had even a remotely competent offense this defense would be treated like royalty. Great post.

I disagree... the defense was getting torched the entire 1st half against a depleted UNC offense. Had nothing to do with the other side of the ball.
 
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brock

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Run defense needs to be fixed for sure considering how dominant we were last year with it
 

LuCane

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If we had even a remotely competent offense this defense would be treated like royalty. Great post.

I disagree... the defense was getting torched the entire 1st half against a depleted UNC offense. Had nothing to do with the other side of the ball.
UNC ran approximately 24 more plays than what they have averaged this season. They did this despite only converting 33% of their third downs today. You find that to be a coincidence?
 

Cribby

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Since this is now breaking off into multiple threads. I'm going to begin the conversation here as to something specific:

Is there one "best way" to measure an effective defense?

To me, it's the one that gives the team, taking the offense into consideration, the best chance to win. So, how do we break that into numbers? Here's my view and then some of you guys can continue to argue about how we have a "bad" defense.

1. Scoring defense
- This is really what matters
2. Yards per play - Yards are important, sure, but we need context as to how many plays are being run.


3. Turnovers - Do they openly contribute to our field position and our ability to put points on the board?
4. 3rd down percentage - Can you get off the field to give your offense more advantages?

On #1 above, we are #23 in the country. This isn't an incredible statistic, but it surely isn't "bad" or "average." We are what we are so far: above average.

On #2 above, we are #16 in the country. Even today, where we allowed what seemed like a million yards to a bad team, we allowed about 4.6 yards per play on 93 plays. This was approximately 24 more plays than what UNC has averaged on the season.

To me, the two above are by far the most relevant defensive measures of success.
On #3 above, after this week, we'll probably be around #35 or better. This is a bit of a fickle statistic, but important in terms of what the defense can produce.

On #4 above, we need to get much better. We're in the bottom half of the NCAA. Although in ACC play, we're somehow far better. Today, we were at 33%.

Have at it. We're not nearly as bad as some have described. We need some work. No doubt. We miss tackles. We sometimes over-blitz. We sometimes get caught on blitzes with no chance of getting home. We take some poor angles. Yet, we still have held it together so far this season. What will occur going forward I have no idea. But, I wanted to make this post for some of the debates on the defense being "bad" and even "historically bad."

I was hard on Diaz early ( rightfully so) with his alignments against spreads and the blitzes at awful times . No need for zone digs on third and twenty.

But since then Ive been thrilled with the d, especially how they played the last few games. It's too bad the offense is a three and out machine. And hangs these guys out weekly. I mean they constantly get turnovers and give them short fields and the o pisses it away.
 

Cribby

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Run defense needs to be fixed for sure considering how dominant we were last year with it

I'm actually cool with the occasional gash, aggression bites you. High risk , high reward. Syracuse was a bit much though
 

BigCaneAl

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If we had even a remotely competent offense this defense would be treated like royalty. Great post.

I disagree... the defense was getting torched the entire 1st half against a depleted UNC offense. Had nothing to do with the other side of the ball.
UNC ran approximately 24 more plays than what they have averaged this season. They did this despite only converting 33% of their third downs today. You find that to be a coincidence?

Not sure what game you were watching KrazyCane, that was a very poor offensive game. So poor I have to wonder if we were worried about Homer getting hurt, in addition to Rosier who got banged up. We gave up on the run, and Rosier was completely off.
 

LuCane

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Lu, can you give us a breakdown of the offense in another thread? It makes my head hurt watching it. I am convinced that while we have personnel issues (Rosier, OL, lack of RB depth, young WRs), Richt is not getting the most out of them. I don't see our offense consistently "scheme" guys open for chain-moving first downs. I don't see any creativity in the run game or pass game. Have we ever run a pick play? Seems to me that the offense is predictable. Really would appreciate it if you could discuss this in another thread.
I'm keeping myself away from this topic on the board because I rather not get stuck on here in debates for the next day and a half.

I also don't have a clue why they're deciding to roll out what they're deciding to roll out there in terms of players and playcalls. I haven't watched any practices this year, so it'd be a total and unfair guess as to what the heck is going on there. I was told we're "saving stuff." I guess we'll find out in 7 days. If we don't see the wrinkles then, when does it come out?

My simplistic, amateur opinion is I don't think we have the combination of talent on offense to just beat teams through solid fundamentals and "executing your job" even if the other team knows what's coming.
 

rsa coral gables

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4,773
Lu, can you give us a breakdown of the offense in another thread? It makes my head hurt watching it. I am convinced that while we have personnel issues (Rosier, OL, lack of RB depth, young WRs), Richt is not getting the most out of them. I don't see our offense consistently "scheme" guys open for chain-moving first downs. I don't see any creativity in the run game or pass game. Have we ever run a pick play? Seems to me that the offense is predictable. Really would appreciate it if you could discuss this in another thread.
I'm keeping myself away from this topic on the board because I rather not get stuck on here in debates for the next day and a half.

I also don't have a clue why they're deciding to roll out what they're deciding to roll out there in terms of players and playcalls. I haven't watched any practices this year, so it'd be a total and unfair guess as to what the heck is going on there. I was told we're "saving stuff." I guess we'll find out in 7 days. If we don't see the wrinkles then, when does it come out?

My simplistic, amateur opinion is I don't think we have the combination of talent on offense to just beat teams through solid fundamentals and "executing your job" even if the other team knows what's coming.

hurricanevision's film breakdown show how often the play call is fair (maybe not creative or great) but someone fails to do their job and the play fails.
 
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kryptonite

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Since this is now breaking off into multiple threads. I'm going to begin the conversation here as to something specific:

Is there one "best way" to measure an effective defense?

To me, it's the one that gives the team, taking the offense into consideration, the best chance to win. So, how do we break that into numbers? Here's my view and then some of you guys can continue to argue about how we have a "bad" defense.

1. Scoring defense
- This is really what matters
2. Yards per play - Yards are important, sure, but we need context as to how many plays are being run.


3. Turnovers - Do they openly contribute to our field position and our ability to put points on the board?
4. 3rd down percentage - Can you get off the field to give your offense more advantages?

On #1 above, we are #23 in the country. This isn't an incredible statistic, but it surely isn't "bad" or "average." We are what we are so far: above average.

On #2 above, we are #16 in the country. Even today, where we allowed what seemed like a million yards to a bad team, we allowed about 4.6 yards per play on 93 plays. This was approximately 24 more plays than what UNC has averaged on the season.

To me, the two above are by far the most relevant defensive measures of success.
On #3 above, after this week, we'll probably be around #35 or better. This is a bit of a fickle statistic, but important in terms of what the defense can produce.

On #4 above, we need to get much better. We're in the bottom half of the NCAA. Although in ACC play, we're somehow far better. Today, we were at 33%.

Have at it. We're not nearly as bad as some have described. We need some work. No doubt. We miss tackles. We sometimes over-blitz. We sometimes get caught on blitzes with no chance of getting home. We take some poor angles. Yet, we still have held it together so far this season. What will occur going forward I have no idea. But, I wanted to make this post for some of the debates on the defense being "bad" and even "historically bad."

In the end, it's scoring defense. We win games because, while the D gives up miles of yards, they don't let the other team score very much. They keep things close while the O figures out how to remove their head from their ass, and so far it's worked.
 

FrancisSawyer

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Jan 15, 2012
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Since this is now breaking off into multiple threads. I'm going to begin the conversation here as to something specific:

Is there one "best way" to measure an effective defense?

To me, it's the one that gives the team, taking the offense into consideration, the best chance to win. So, how do we break that into numbers? Here's my view and then some of you guys can continue to argue about how we have a "bad" defense.

1. Scoring defense
- This is really what matters
2. Yards per play - Yards are important, sure, but we need context as to how many plays are being run.


3. Turnovers - Do they openly contribute to our field position and our ability to put points on the board?
4. 3rd down percentage - Can you get off the field to give your offense more advantages?

On #1 above, we are [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=23]#23 [/URL] in the country. This isn't an incredible statistic, but it surely isn't "bad" or "average." We are what we are so far: above average.

On #2 above, we are #16 in the country. Even today, where we allowed what seemed like a million yards to a bad team, we allowed about 4.6 yards per play on 93 plays. This was approximately 24 more plays than what UNC has averaged on the season.

To me, the two above are by far the most relevant defensive measures of success.
On #3 above, after this week, we'll probably be around #35 or better. This is a bit of a fickle statistic, but important in terms of what the defense can produce.

On #4 above, we need to get much better. We're in the bottom half of the NCAA. Although in ACC play, we're somehow far better. Today, we were at 33%.

Have at it. We're not nearly as bad as some have described. We need some work. No doubt. We miss tackles. We sometimes over-blitz. We sometimes get caught on blitzes with no chance of getting home. We take some poor angles. Yet, we still have held it together so far this season. What will occur going forward I have no idea. But, I wanted to make this post for some of the debates on the defense being "bad" and even "historically bad."

Great post but I don't quite understand who exactly is claiming our D to be bad or historically bad? Has that been a narrative on the board? If so I have missed it.

What you described above in terms of the defense is spot on. Our defense has done an incredible job taking into account the fact our O can't stay on the field and our lack of depth in the secondary. Also #23 in scoring defense is better than above average. It's in the top 20%. Our yards per play on defense has also been very good. Sure there are things they can improve on the most important being the ability to get of the field on 3rd down. One more stat I want to throw out there. Defensively against the pass we are in the top 6 nationally in yards per attempt allowed. That in amazing.
 

the23Watcher

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Oct 26, 2015
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the offense and special teams need to help the defense out also. the offense can't sustain drives, so the defense is always RIGHT back out there. the punter has been bad, rarely flipping field position.
 
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