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The best athletes ever?

CaneOil said:
Be honest I didn't see him in person that I can remember. Everyone says he was a leaper too. Dr J was one of those guys you didn't miss back then. He played over the rim.
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My bad... You did say in person.. He liked the coke too much
 
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CaneOil said:
If you were starting a team would you take Shaq or Koby? I take Shaq every single time before Koby. That's what I mean, a great big man is greater than a great small man almost every time. Shaq at peak was a force.
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If I’m starting a team I’m taking lebron or mj. Kobe is not In the convo for me. And I’m a Kobe fan lol. Love his swagger. But he not close to mj or bron. Shaq Is the greatest individual force to play the game. But I wouldn’t start a team with him over those two
 
HamburgerSV said:
Rodman was also 35-37 years old during his time with the bulls lol ....as soon as pippen became an all star it was s wrap for the league. Pistons weren’t old isiah was 29 when Jordan swept him , Laimbeer was about the same , Rodman was even younger and so was dumars. Yea very old
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And he still averaged 14.9, 15 and 16.1 rebounds per game and always took the best shooters on. That's with playing about 34 minutes a game. He had many games over 20. He played big in big games. Rodman led the league in rebounds in 96 lol. Ya that broken down old man. I'm talking Boston, not Detroit. Bird had a screwed up back by 89, had to get shots in his back just to play before many games. Jordan also let the league in Shots taken in 96, Field goal missed, he wasn't even in the top 20 players in field goal percentage. Always thought he was a ball hog that took too many bad shots. Look at all his stats don't cherry pick. Not one doubt when the best players in the 80's were pass their time, Jordan was the best. Many of the games in Boston the crowd would break out in over rated, that was Jordan they were talking about. It was nothing for Jordan to take 35, 40 or more shots. Boston beat him down even with Pip in the 80's.
 
hydro66 said:
ANDRE, was a perfect example of the system. he hurt all over, physically and mentally. he was paraded around and laughed at. his soul was belittle and people just did not see the signs. he hurt all over. never say that u are kidding. example after example on how people and athletes get sucked in to the dark side.
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Seriously? Andre chose to become a professional wrestler. He ran the show. He did what he wanted. No one could make him do anything.
 
lol, go back and look at Jabbar when
305to954 said:
If I’m starting a team I’m taking lebron or mj. Kobe is not In the convo for me. And I’m a Kobe fan lol. Love his swagger. But he not close to mj or bron. Shaq Is the greatest individual force to play the game. But I wouldn’t start a team with him over those two
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lol, go back and watch Jabbar when he was young. Shaq was a force Jabbar was in another league above. I still don't get why people think Jordan was the best. I saw him many times, I saw Magic & Jabbar many times, Dr J many times, bird over a hundred and fifty times. Jordan always took a million shots even when other guys were open. I won't take away from Jordan that he was one of the most electric players when he was on, but the best over all? Nope I think your mind would have changed if you had seen all of them in their prime. I didn't even see Jabbar in his prime and he was still my GOAT center.
 
Liberty City El said:
My personal list:

NBA - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Shaq O'Neal, Allen Iverson

NFL - Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor, Sean Taylor, Randy Moss, Deion Sanders

MLB - Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, Vladimir Guerrero, Rickey Henderson, Ken Griffey, Andruw Jones, Roberto Clemente, Manny Ramirez, Adrian Beltre, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson

Olympic Wrestling - Alexander Karelin, John Smith, Jordan Burroughs, Buvaisar Saitiev, Bruce Baumgartner, Cael Sanderson, Dave Schultz, Mark Schultz, Hamid Sourian

Martial Arts - Ip Man, Chu Shong Tin, Bruce Lee, Masahiko Kimura, Mas Oyama, Kano Jigoro, Mitsuyo Maeda, Helio Gracie, Rolls Gracie, Rigan Machado, Jean Jacques Machado, Chuck Norris

Muay Thai - Dany Bill, Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukaran, Samart Payakaroon, Kaensak Sor Ploenchit, Saenchai

Boxing - Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Floyd Mayweather, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Julian Jackson, Felix Trinidad, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker

Track & Field - Florence Girffith Joyner, Usain Bolt, Carl Lewis, Jesse Owens, Jackie Joyner-Kersee

X Games - Tony Hawk, Bucky Lasek, Bob Burnquist, Travis Pastrana, Ishod Wair, Jamie Bestwick, Matt Hoffman, Dave Mirra, Pierre Luc Gagnon, Nigel Sylvester, Nyjah Huston, Theotis Beasley, Kareem Campbell, Darren Harper, Karl Watson, Stevie Williams
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Agree with your list! Adding some
81815


This man is out this world... goat in speed ever
 
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YUMU said:
Agree with your list! Adding some View attachment 81815

This man is out this worls.. goat in speed ever
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Liberty City El said:
My personal list:

NBA - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Shaq O'Neal, Allen Iverson

NFL - Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor, Sean Taylor, Randy Moss, Deion Sanders

MLB - Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, Vladimir Guerrero, Rickey Henderson, Ken Griffey, Andruw Jones, Roberto Clemente, Manny Ramirez, Adrian Beltre, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson

Olympic Wrestling - Alexander Karelin, John Smith, Jordan Burroughs, Buvaisar Saitiev, Bruce Baumgartner, Cael Sanderson, Dave Schultz, Mark Schultz, Hamid Sourian

Martial Arts - Ip Man, Chu Shong Tin, Bruce Lee, Masahiko Kimura, Mas Oyama, Kano Jigoro, Mitsuyo Maeda, Helio Gracie, Rolls Gracie, Rigan Machado, Jean Jacques Machado, Chuck Norris

Muay Thai - Dany Bill, Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukaran, Samart Payakaroon, Kaensak Sor Ploenchit, Saenchai

Boxing - Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Floyd Mayweather, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Julian Jackson, Felix Trinidad, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker

Track & Field - Florence Girffith Joyner, Usain Bolt, Carl Lewis, Jesse Owens, Jackie Joyner-Kersee

X Games - Tony Hawk, Bucky Lasek, Bob Burnquist, Travis Pastrana, Ishod Wair, Jamie Bestwick, Matt Hoffman, Dave Mirra, Pierre Luc Gagnon, Nigel Sylvester, Nyjah Huston, Theotis Beasley, Kareem Campbell, Darren Harper, Karl Watson, Stevie Williams
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Wrestling- this man must be included- likely to win the next Olympics making him the GOAT
 

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Liberty City El said:
My personal list:

NBA - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Tim Duncan, Shaq O'Neal, Allen Iverson

NFL - Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Reggie White, Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor, Sean Taylor, Randy Moss, Deion Sanders

MLB - Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, Vladimir Guerrero, Rickey Henderson, Ken Griffey, Andruw Jones, Roberto Clemente, Manny Ramirez, Adrian Beltre, Bob Gibson, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson

Olympic Wrestling - Alexander Karelin, John Smith, Jordan Burroughs, Buvaisar Saitiev, Bruce Baumgartner, Cael Sanderson, Dave Schultz, Mark Schultz, Hamid Sourian

Martial Arts - Ip Man, Chu Shong Tin, Bruce Lee, Masahiko Kimura, Mas Oyama, Kano Jigoro, Mitsuyo Maeda, Helio Gracie, Rolls Gracie, Rigan Machado, Jean Jacques Machado, Chuck Norris

Muay Thai - Dany Bill, Dieselnoi Chor Thanasukaran, Samart Payakaroon, Kaensak Sor Ploenchit, Saenchai

Boxing - Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Floyd Mayweather, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr, Julian Jackson, Felix Trinidad, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker

Track & Field - Florence Girffith Joyner, Usain Bolt, Carl Lewis, Jesse Owens, Jackie Joyner-Kersee

X Games - Tony Hawk, Bucky Lasek, Bob Burnquist, Travis Pastrana, Ishod Wair, Jamie Bestwick, Matt Hoffman, Dave Mirra, Pierre Luc Gagnon, Nigel Sylvester, Nyjah Huston, Theotis Beasley, Kareem Campbell, Darren Harper, Karl Watson, Stevie Williams
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Also this man must be included .. only man to clear his whole body over 8 feet ever ...still untouched after 25 years
 

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NBA in the '80s was a romanticized joke. There was no defense whatsoever. Players like Michael Cooper were being heralded as great defenders but when you stepped back and watched those games a decade or so later it was absolutely shocking how soft they were compared to legitimate 48 minute floor to floor defenders from the '90s.

I had this argument with several friends in Las Vegas. They initially dismissed it. After all, those '80s Lakers and Celtics teams were the subject of aura and swoons. Meanwhile it was one uncontested shot after another. When I pulled out those aged VCR tapes and handed them to those friends in the '90s they were absolutely stunned. They finally realized they had been suckered.

It was simple for me to identify because when I arrived in Las Vegas in 1984 the average over/under was 220. That is ridiculous. There never should be that many points scored, if possessions are legitimately contested. Heck, the nickname of the feature team was Showtime. That should be a slight hint toward the style of play involved.

Chuck Daly deserves more credit than was ever bestowed upon him. He shut down Showtime and changed the game in breathtaking fashion for more than a decade. Those Pistons were not designed to deal with Michael Jordan. They were designed to derail Showtime. Handling the Bulls during those late '80s seasons was mostly an offshoot and afterthought. The Pistons came agonizingly close in 1988 but lost two heartbreaking games 6 and 7 at the Forum. To their immense credit and Daly turning it up a notch, Detroit completed the mission in 1989 and then repeated in 1990.

But I didn't know anybody in Las Vegas who thought they could keep going. It was a very talented but not freakishly talented team. The day to day defensive effort level was astounding and basically unsustainable. To have a 3-year run like that was fantastic. The ascension was very obvious in 1987-88, the peak clearly demonstrated in 1988-89, the logical slight decline but managing another title in 1989-90, and then gasping fruitlessly to hold on in 1990-91. Those Bulls in 1991 were hardly defeating the same team that the Lakers dealt with a few years earlier.

I have to laugh at the suggestion that Lebron couldn't compete in the '80s. Anyone who says that might as well be permanently enclosed inside a jack o lantern. I was betting on those games every night and watching one-dimensional frauds light up the league. Kevin McHale was a very good player but he's Lurch compared to Lebron. Guys like Bernard King and Alex English and Terry Cummings and Chris Mullin were thriving, but Lebron James would be knocked to the floor and whining about it. There should be some type of permanent Happy Adjuster Moron award assigned to that one: HAM to our SAM.

BTW, the league right now in 2018-19 has finally returned to the same type of defensive softness as the fraudulent '80s. It has taken 33 years. Average points per game is now above 110 for the first time since the 1985-86 season. It dropped below 100 per game in 1995-96 and remained there for the next 12 seasons. My era in Las Vegas was fairly easy, partially for that reason. I love to wager on unders and it was a golden era for it. It took quite a while for the numbers to adjust. I had over-betting friends who despised the trend and held Chuck Daly in absolute contempt. He was literally a curse word for them. In recent years I am sure it has been the opposite...golden times for over bettors while undertakers struggle. I'm always amazed when Scott Van Pelt laments the plight of under bettors as he shows the bad beats. Meanwhile I remember winning NBA unders by 30-50 points when the league was transitioning, and I didn't think anything of it. Often the posted over/under looked like a double overtime line.
 
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CaneOil said:
And he still averaged 14.9, 15 and 16.1 rebounds per game and always took the best shooters on. That's with playing about 34 minutes a game. He had many games over 20. He played big in big games. Rodman led the league in rebounds in 96 lol. Ya that broken down old man. I'm talking Boston, not Detroit. Bird had a screwed up back by 89, had to get shots in his back just to play before many games. Jordan also let the league in Shots taken in 96, Field goal missed, he wasn't even in the top 20 players in field goal percentage. Always thought he was a ball hog that took too many bad shots. Look at all his stats don't cherry pick. Not one doubt when the best players in the 80's were pass their time, Jordan was the best. Many of the games in Boston the crowd would break out in over rated, that was Jordan they were talking about. It was nothing for Jordan to take 35, 40 or more shots. Boston beat him down even with Pip in the 80's.
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they played in 86 and 87 in the playoffs. So Pippen was in his rookie or second year of course they are gonna beat a 24 year old Jordan with only rookie or second year Pippen as his only help ..... youre saying it like its a huge black mark on his resume.....Not jordans fault that Bird and Mchale couldnt stay healthy by 89 .... not jordans fault he entered his prime when Bird, mchale were already ****ed by injuries. "look at all his stats" i did and they say he has the best advanced stats out of any player...what you want me to tell you ? Kareem kept getting spanked in the playoffs with Milwaukee until Oscar shwoed up .... Lakers were an abomination with Kareem before Magic showed up. Kareem goes down game 5 agaisnt sixers and lakers still beat a stacked sixers team....But thats your goat ? lol every single player has negatives but jordan has the best resume sorry buddy.
 
CaneOil said:
lol, go back and look at Jabbar when


lol, go back and watch Jabbar when he was young. Shaq was a force Jabbar was in another league above. I still don't get why people think Jordan was the best. I saw him many times, I saw Magic & Jabbar many times, Dr J many times, bird over a hundred and fifty times. Jordan always took a million shots even when other guys were open. I won't take away from Jordan that he was one of the most electric players when he was on, but the best over all? Nope I think your mind would have changed if you had seen all of them in their prime. I didn't even see Jabbar in his prime and he was still my GOAT center.
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Jordan in his prime would take 22-25 shots per game .... kareem in his rpime took 22-24 shots per game lmao
 
Ethnicsands said:
You guess really poorly. I did see them play. In person. Neither of them was jordan, and neither of them would claim otherwise if you asked them. But go on thinking you know better. As for the ‘80s, in some other discussion, we can go through it. Jordan was the goat from the get go. Magic played with Kareem, worthy, nixon, cooper, wilkes and many others. Jordan spent his first years with granville waiters and reggie theus. Anyhow, guess again.
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What I did see was Jordan losing almost every game in Boston Garden even with Pippen as early as the 87 season, Jordan, Grant, Oakley, Gilmore, Paxton, Sparrow, threate and a couple other back up big guys. Not a bad lineup, still Boston destroyed them. Both Magic and Bird have said each other was the best along with saying Jordan was, but when they were all in their prime the both beat Jordan. Boston 17 times in a row, swept them in the playoffs twice. Jordan shot the ball over 40 times in a couple of those games I was at. One was 45 times I believe. How many of the best players in the league get 50 or 60 if they shoot the ball 40 times? Twenty or so of those points off of foul shots. Bird was better at free throws and 3 pointers. More assists per game, much better rebounder, field goal percentage the same, points per game Jordan by 6, only because he took a ton more shots that Bird. Jordan took a ****load more shots than Bird sometime over 700 per year as in 1996. Bird more steals per game, more blocks per game, Jordans stats surely don't show he was better either. And head to head it wasn't even close.
 
HamburgerSV said:
they played in 86 and 87 in the playoffs. So Pippen was in his rookie or second year of course they are gonna beat a 24 year old Jordan with only rookie or second year Pippen as his only help ..... youre saying it like its a huge black mark on his resume.....Not jordans fault that Bird and Mchale couldnt stay healthy by 89 .... not jordans fault he entered his prime when Bird, mchale were already ****ed by injuries. "look at all his stats" i did and they say he has the best advanced stats out of any player...what you want me to tell you ? Kareem kept getting spanked in the playoffs with Milwaukee until Oscar shwoed up .... Lakers were an abomination with Kareem before Magic showed up. Kareem goes down game 5 agaisnt sixers and lakers still beat a stacked sixers team....But thats your goat ? lol every single player has negatives but jordan has the best resume sorry buddy.
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Jordan hit his prime in 86. Bird was already 10 years in by 89, he wasn't even close to being prime, his back was also gone. Just about the only stat Jordan beat bird was 6 points a game scoring average. He took many hundreds more per year, 86 over 700 more shots. Bird was a better 3 point shooter, free throw shooter, much better rebounder, more steals per game, more assists per game, more blocks per game and head to head it wasn't even close. If you looked at the stats you would see Bird was pretty much better at every one except points. Let the facts speak for themselves. You obviously didn't look at the stats. Mil had no money to pay the players after Jabbar, they had a bunch of scrubs with him. He would be my first player I took to build a team around.

Also Pippen was not the only player around Jordan, I posted the players above in 87, they had some shooters on that team.
 
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