The # 1 Problem with UM football from 2003 to present

[DMoney]

I disagree that luck was a big factor in Clemson's rise from the ashes. I'm not exactly sure what Dabo's secret sauce is, but I don't think it's just random luck.

I meant luck in hiring Dabo. It’s not like he had a great resume and the administration broke the bank for him.

 

[mirasuegui]

Problem it seem we were on probation like for 10 years : we still at 70 plus players, Donna constantly meddling in the program multiple AD 's questionable recruiting brought on by the NCAA hard on for us : what legitimate coach would even take this on : We should have beat NC to the punch and hire Butch back, before they did, or taken a harder look at Leach, but as usual we went for the safe hiring.

 

[NorthEastCane]

So when Clemson and Alabama adopted spread formations and dumped pro set crap, it was a gimmick for them to stay competetive? Or is it because it works better?

They didn't drop the Pro Set crap. They grafted spread concepts into the Pro Set and went multiple. They used whatever was most effective for the situation and opponent they faced. Some situations they ran from the shot gun, other they ran under center. Some teams they ran more spread, others they ran more Pro Set.

This is not an either/or, you can use both. And if you are equally proficient in each, you're more difficult to scheme against, and better prepared to handle whatever they throw at you.

 

[NorthEastCane]

The biggest problem is that none of our coaches from 2003-2018 are currently employed as head coaches.

The only one who even got another head coaching job was Coker at UTSA. And he had a title on his resume.

Once they leave it's no longer our problem. The fact that none can get a head coaching job is evidence of our poor choices. We're well beyond it being a data point, it's become the pattern. What is it they say about "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"?

 

[Calvin]

Disagree that Shalala had an "agenda" regarding football. My guess is that she did not devote much time at all even thinking about it. Her main job was to raise the academic stature of the school, and she actually did that. Football may not have even qualified as an afterthought. Would it be better for the program to have a university president who's actively engaged with athletics? Probably, but let's be real, this school has NEVER had that. President Foote wasn't exactly the football program's biggest fan.

Disagreeing is fine, but the facts dont agree with you, you cant start off by saying you " disagree that the troll had an agenda" and than turn around and say "her main job was to raise the academic stature of the school, than in the trolls quest for raising the acedemic standards, than that was the agenda, and that in and by itself caused the recruiting landscape to change. The school informercial where the troll intentionally stated "we're recruiting a different type of athlete to the University of Miami". Allowing skelator to fire coach kehoe, soldinger and coach vernon, keeping yes men around her. The way shannon was hired and handled, low ballin him, and when you hear whar the trolls main reason out of the trolls own mouth for the hiring of coach shannon was, it was very obvious among other things, the way the troll handled the willie williams situation, what we needed was for the troll to devote no time towards the football team. I can guarantee julio would not have handled the willie williams situation the way the troll did and several other situations, he's not interested in being seen as trying to lord over everything.

 

[NicKane]

Our problem is not DLine either. And our problem is maybe not playcalling, per se, but it is offensive scheme.

Unless we are going to start spreading bags around, we're going to need to go to a spread. There's no reason we can't do what UCF does, and do it better, a lot better.

From your mouth to gods ear my friend. Someone please for the love of god in the UM admin see this! We are never going to be able to recruit the olineman for the pro set offense we keep trying to run here. Running that offense has literally become the epitome of square peg in round hole because those olineman aren’t down here In S florida. Our advantage is speed and skill position and that’s what is enhanced in a spread and what is neutralized in a pro set. Jesus how are we the only ones that can see this, play to our strengths **** it and stop trying to play like wisky or bama. Smh I swear if we could literally just switch staffs with UCF we’d be undefeated and smoking people! Smh

 

[NicKane]

And people wonder why some of us would have been fine with Barry Alvarez.

If Barry would have been our coach their is no way in **** he gets out coached by tressel like coker did in 2002. No way! I’ve never understood the disrespect for Alvarez on here. The dude is the only reason Wisconsin is what it is today In CFB. He literally made that program by hand. And won three rose bowls, coached a Heisman winner and is the only coach in the big ten to ever beat tressel/OSU back to back years and finished with a 3-1 record against tressel. Dude would have killed it here and anyone who’s says other wise has about as much knowledge of football as baby being born in China today. Lol

 

[MainLineCane]

Miami is known to be a hot-bed of skilled players. 5 Star, skilled athletes at nearly every school in Dade/Broward county. Positions like WR, FS, RB, etc. Teams like Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson come to south Florida and cherry pick our athletes but Miami can match big schools recruiting athletes like Pope, Lingard, Thomas, etc. Recruiting classes are always top 10// top 20. However, the fundamental problem with Miami since 2003 is more than just our coordinators, or play-calling or our coaching.

What do Ohio State, Clemson, OU and Alabama have in common.. year after year. Their QBs change, their RBs change... yet they still dominate. Why?

The # 1 problem with UM football is we do not prioritize our OL. South Florida is deep with speed and skill but not deep with big uglies. Top schools always dominate the line of scrimmage. So we can go on about our talent and recruiting classes, our QB play but we're not landing top OL and DL.

When was the last time we had a dominate OL and DL? I'd say it was 2000, 2001. We continually target these athletes yet Wisconsin dominates us twice... with nowhere near the athletes. We have more 'skill' and more 'athletes' then every team we play.. yet we lose. Why? Because our we're not prioritizing the OL. This year is just another example of misguided recruiting.

Sir
You've got a very keen eye and an extraordinary ability to see the big picture, ....analyze the symptoms, ...and then focus and immediately find a cure.....

I am in truly in awe by your decisiveness in boldly providing us with the remedy to cure our malaise. We were truly at a loss as to how this dreadful situation could be halted

It's an honor to have you on board, we all will now have comfort benefit just knowing that you are here to guide us with original needed solutions.

Let me stop the BS with you. This has been repeatedly pointed out by numerous posters and a few porsters over the years.

Absolutely nothing wrong in repeating it....especially since it still hasn't been done

 

[g8rh8rMD]

If Barry would have been our coach their is no way in **** he gets out coached by tressel like coker did in 2002. No way! I’ve never understood the disrespect for Alvarez on here. The dude is the only reason Wisconsin is what it is today In CFB. He literally made that program by hand. And won three rose bowls, coached a Heisman winner and is the only coach in the big ten to ever beat tressel/OSU back to back years and finished with a 3-1 record against tressel. Dude would have killed it here and anyone who’s says other wise has about as much knowledge of football as baby being born in China today. Lol

Still gotta agree to disagree on this one. Alvarez in Miami would have been exactly the square peg in a round hole at Miami that you are talking about in your post immediately above the one quoted here. Alvarez wouldn't know the spread offense from a buffet spread. What works for him and Wisconsin simply doesn't/wouldn't/won't work here.

To be clear, I've been a pro-style (modern pro-style albeit, not I-form on every play) advocate for Miami for years. Mark Richt and now **** have changed my mind. Then again, I suppose some coaches find a way to run a "pro-style" without calling play action on 3rd and 15...

 

[NicKane]

Still gotta agree to disagree on this one. Alvarez in Miami would have been exactly the square peg in a round hole at Miami that you are talking about in your post immediately above the one quoted here. Alvarez wouldn't know the spread offense from a buffet spread. What works for him and Wisconsin simply doesn't/wouldn't/won't work here.

To be clear, I've been a pro-style (modern pro-style albeit, not I-form on every play) advocate for Miami for years. Mark Richt and now **** have changed my mind. Then again, I suppose some coaches find a way to run a "pro-style" without calling play action on 3rd and 15...

That’s fair but I’m not saying Barry would be coaching now when we have no choice to go spread imho. He retired in 2005 and during that run we had the lineman to run prostyle and did it at the highest level with our NC and playing in multiple BCS bowl games during that time. So in that era I think Barry would have been a lot better here then clappy Coker for gods sake. And in 2002 we win that game against one of the worst teams in OSU to ever win a national title comfortably in regulation so there’s no chance for the refs to steal it from us in overtime. The dude owned tressel in the big ten. So that’s all I’m saying, I think he would have been a much better coach for us during that 01 to 06 era then Coker was.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

That’s fair but I’m not saying Barry would be coaching now when we have no choice to go spread imho. He retired in 2005 and during that run we had the lineman to run prostyle and did it at the highest level with our NC and playing in multiple BCS bowl games during that time. So in that era I think Barry would have been a lot better here then clappy Coker for gods sake. And in 2002 we win that game against one of the worst teams in OSU to ever win a national title comfortably in regulation so there’s no chance for the refs to steal it from us in overtime. The dude owned tressel in the big ten. So that’s all I’m saying, I think he would have been a much better coach for us during that 01 to 06 era then Coker was.

Fair enough. All pretty much fair points.

 

[DTP]

They didn't drop the Pro Set crap. They grafted spread concepts into the Pro Set and went multiple. They used whatever was most effective for the situation and opponent they faced. Some situations they ran from the shot gun, other they ran under center. Some teams they ran more spread, others they ran more Pro Set.

This is not an either/or, you can use both. And if you are equally proficient in each, you're more difficult to scheme against, and better prepared to handle whatever they throw at you.

When is the last time you saw Clemson line up under center with two backs in the backfield? Maybe on goal line but that's about it. They've been almost exclusively a shotgun/pistol team for at least 6 or 7 years. Alabama will do it still occasionally but they've fazed out a majority of that stuff.

 

[CaneDogX]

When is the last time you saw Clemson line up under center with two backs in the backfield? Maybe on goal line but that's about it. They've been almost exclusively a shotgun/pistol team for at least 6 or 7 years. Alabama will do it still occasionally but they've fazed out a majority of that stuff.

I'd venture to say a minority of our plays are out of the I-formation. I'd also venture to say we need two backs to help protect our QB. Shotgun doesn't cover our horrific OL. CMU got to Williams by the time the ball hit his hands.

How about we give Enos some time to figure our what to do with this historically bad OL. I really don't think they specifically schemed for CMU.

 

[Silver King]

This post reminds me of the old Nancy Grace show: "BOMBSHELL!"

Art Kehoe was considered one of the best OL Coaches in the country. People get so consumed by the flash of the skills, how great they are, yatta yatta. But those NC O-lines never got the attention they deserved. In fact, the only time most notice/mention the O-line is when an offense is weak-kneeing in. If this O-line survives and maturers and in a year or two we start making a move, you're likely not to see a post about them until it goes south again.

As I've been saying the O-line is what it takes to win, not only in Miami, but from Pop warner to the NFL. Skill guys; you can always find them. But it is much harder to find 5 guys who can play together like the Rolling Stones (Miami has had a huge issue in even assigning them to a position - you start shuffling, that's showing you didn't assess or develop like you needed, it is never good). I was an O-lineman from Junior high through college, blocked for 6 different thousand yard running backs - what was the constant? O-Lines at every level that started young and played together very well, they're a thing of beauty to watch if know what to look for, but most are watching the big runs or 5-6 second developing veritcal pass plays (watch them next time you see a Bama or Clemson QB standing pretty, waiting for someone to come open).

Here in Miami, by the time they brought Keho back, he didn't have it, and Miami sure hadn't recruited or developed the type of linemen he used to. I said last spring, I just hoped they didn't start moving guys around.

 

[NorthEastCane]

When is the last time you saw Clemson line up under center with two backs in the backfield? Maybe on goal line but that's about it. They've been almost exclusively a shotgun/pistol team for at least 6 or 7 years. Alabama will do it still occasionally but they've fazed out a majority of that stuff.

As I said, it's not either/or. There are so many variations today that the distinction is no longer whether they're in shot gun or under center. It's how often they flex out the H and Y positions in order to "spread" out the defense by alignment and use spacing to attack opponents. There's no rule you can't do that under center. Every pro team regardless of base scheme runs from the shot gun. They have for 30 or 40 years.

As far as your question, how about against Alabama. Clemson base offense is a Chad Morris-style smashmouth spread offense up until they played a team they couldn’t push around up front. As has been noted on here, they have a good but not necessarily imposing line. Against Bama in both championship games. they flipped a switch and become a more pro-style squad involving Watson more heavily in the run game then Etienne last year. They're a good case of going multiple when they have to (and they have the talent to do so).

 

[NorthEastCane]

We need to land 5 star OL prospects and build around that... Guaranteed, the team with the best OL recruiting class will be at top 3 team. Not the best QB, not the best RB, not the best WR... # 1 recruit in the country tears his ACL and Alabama doesn't feel it. Why? Because they have a dominant OL.

Do you think we haven't tried? Neal last year. We got Rivers but Demervil and Walker (for the most part) not talking with us. The best one next year (Tate) already committed to Clemson.

 

[NorthEastCane]

Its not a mystery. When Miami was dominant it was dominate because the LOS. We've always had good skilled players. Always. But our OL has been weak since 2001.

Not surprising Alabama, OSU and Clemson are there every year. New coaches, new players, still top 5. Why?

Except for 2000 to 2002 we didn't have particularly dominant offensive lines. We had some dominant players like Searcy and Rakoczy, but the rest of the line was filled with smaller, faster players many converted from defensive line. What they had in common were they were intelligent in their reads, were quick to execute their blocks and played well together as a unit.

 

[DiegoCane]

The biggest problem is that none of our coaches from 2003-2018 are currently employed as head coaches.

The only one who even got another head coaching job was Coker at UTSA. And he had a title on his resume.

This is a good point. I can't remember the last assistant we had that went on to be a big thing/HC somewhere else.

All those bad coaches brought poor OC/DCs as well.

Manny was a good DC here, unfortunately he hired an OC that's offense doesn't fit our talent/recruiting base. I had high hopes for Diaz when he was hired talking about playing fast and attacking. He didn't hire an OC that fits those values.

 

[Rellyrell]

We need to land 5 star OL prospects and build around that... Guaranteed, the team with the best OL recruiting class will be at top 3 team. Not the best QB, not the best RB, not the best WR... # 1 recruit in the country tears his ACL and Alabama doesn't feel it. Why? Because they have a dominant OL.

I agree w/ you, and I'm glad you started this post. You had me interested in going back through our recruiting classes since 2010. Lotta up and downs w/ our recruitment for, arguably, the second most important position in football.

I see several issues from our classes, and one is not recruiting players from SFL to anchor our line, like you alluded to. If you go through our history since 2010, the guys who've made it to the NFL and are doing well, or who were major contributors here, were majority from SFL. Most of our JAGs came from other states.

But since 2010 we've either:
a) under recruited by taking one or two guys, and those one or two guys were JAGs like the 2011, 2013, and 2016 classes
b) over recruited a certain position like 2015, 2017 where we only recruited tackles or
c) just didn't recruit enough bodies like 2018.

2010 was by far our best class, and it was a combination of numbers + recruiting kids at their natural positions. It's no wonder, then, that class also produced our most productive NFL guys, as well.

I've complained before that our OL has been makeshift for a while. We recruit tackles and force them to play guard; recruit guards and have them play tackle. We have tackles playing C, and C playing both guard and C.

It's been god-awful in the trenches. So I see many facets as to why this continues to happen:

Recruitment: We've had no quality depth b/c we've saturated our depth chart, for a while, w/ JAGs including 3 classes where we had little to no contributions AT ALL from the guys recruited.

Coaching: If you know we have a make shift OL, if you see in practice that our OL struggles against certain formations, alignments, etc. then you curtail the offense to hide such struggles. I can't recall the last Boise St, KSU, or WSU OLman that was an All-American, but their OL don't have to face much scrutiny b/c the coaches curtail offenses to mask their flaws. Why continue to run this power I or pulling a guy who's clearly not in the best position to pull? Why continue to leave a true freshman LT (who had zero D-I offers) one-on-one against a DE that kept beating him?

Development: Our OL have had some of the most ****-poor techniques for a while. Whether that's getting out of their stance, pulling, bulling, handling speed rushers, handling bull rushers....you name it, and we've continually struggled. Our OL continue to get pushed and get no push at the point of attack, including from teams who have 0 NFL talent along their front 4.

Administration: They hire these coaches. We're supposed to be among the blue bloods of CFB, yet they've hired a d-coordinator from a failed regime w/ zero coaching experience. They've hired a guy from a G5 program who went 27-34 while coaching there. They hired a guy who told everyone he was burnt out from coaching and wanted to retire. And like ground hogs day, they hired a d-coordinator from a failed regime w/ zero coaching experience. lol

So we can recruit all the 5 stars in the world from outside of SFL, and I bet money, we'll be only marginally better. The only way I can see us being fixed is Manny getting a new OC and he wants to run a version of an offense that mimics anything like the 21st century.

 

[DTP]

I'd venture to say a minority of our plays are out of the I-formation. I'd also venture to say we need two backs to help protect our QB. Shotgun doesn't cover our horrific OL. CMU got to Williams by the time the ball hit his hands.

How about we give Enos some time to figure our what to do with this historically bad OL. I really don't think they specifically schemed for CMU.

One of the advantages to using the shotgun is that a poor pass blocking line doesn't have to hold their blocks as long. Having a quarterback take 5 and 7 step drops with a line that can't protect is suicidal. With the quarterback already in the shotgun, he doesn't need to waste precious seconds dropping back from under center. Every half second saved by not using a drop back is a half second less the line has to protect. Not sure why it's taking an experienced coach 4 games to adjust his gameplan to the fact his line isn't good. Hopefully he makes the adjustments before next week or Jarren might not make it out of the game alive.