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Take This Man's Keyboard Away

MikeyCanez said:
Fine, I'll play devil's advocate. Saban's dynasty is a lot more impressive than anything our coaches did and sure, he paid players, but so did everyone else.

I guess you could argue that he didn't "build the template", but he actually built a real dynasty, our coaches built a national championship contender.
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The key is he got to play with an unfair advantage. While the NCAA was slapping down anyone with a pulse over some free french fries, Saban had players literally flashing money on social media on a regular basis without even a concern since emmert was never going to look in their direction.

I'm not saying there's a real argument against him as GOAT coach, but he definitely got there partly due to an uneven playing field.
 
poncho0091 said:
The key is he got to play with an unfair advantage. While the NCAA was slapping down anyone with a pulse over some free french fries, Saban had players literally flashing money on social media on a regular basis without even a concern since emmert was never going to look in their direction.
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Don’t forget the Dodge dealerships!
 
poncho0091 said:
The key is he got to play with an unfair advantage. While the NCAA was slapping down anyone with a pulse over some free french fries, Saban had players literally flashing money on social media on a regular basis without even a concern since emmert was never going to look in their direction.

I'm not saying there's a real argument against him as GOAT coach, but he definitely got there partly due to an uneven playing field.
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Not saying I disagree, just saying that Bama was hardly the only program paying players under the table (that tale is as old as time). He was to paying players what Lance Armstrong was to doping. Just institutionalized that stuff on another level.
 
MikeyCanez said:
Not saying I disagree, just saying that Bama was hardly the only program paying players under the table (that tale is as old as time). He was to paying players what Lance Armstrong was to doping. Just institutionalized that stuff on another level.
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I make my unfair playing field statement with acknowledgment that he was actually a great coach as well. I think he'd have pulled some of those off on an even playing field, but the dynasty aspect went into overdrive when there was no risk of repercussions. Yes everyone was doing it, but bama bag game is about as legendary as the dynasty run itself.

Kirby caught the tail end of a golden era of bagmen and SEC not needing to follow any rules, and we see how quickly the momentum has fallen off now that it's an even playing field.
 
poncho0091 said:
I make my unfair playing field statement with acknowledgment that he was actually a great coach as well. I think he'd have pulled some of those off on an even playing field, but the dynasty aspect went into overdrive when there was no risk of repercussions. Yes everyone was doing it, but bama bag game is about as legendary as the dynasty run itself.

Kirby caught the tail end of a golden era of bagmen and SEC not needing to follow any rules, and we see how quickly the momentum has fallen off now that it's an even playing field.
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But NOT everyone was doing it. Only certain schools were permitted to do it. That's the whole point.

Further, of those schools, some (cough, Bama, cough) were permitted to do it to a higher level.
 
Empirical Cane said:
My initial reaction was to photocopy my ******* and tweet that GLORIOUS pic with "deez nutz", but Marc from IT said "that was against current HR policy to use company resources in such a manner".

I think it's a gray area.

@Felonious Monk
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Felonious Monk said:
Actually, he'd be more likely to superimpose your picture on it and push it out as the company screensaver. There's a reason he's supervised.
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Let me give you an example of what we deal with. It's barely past 8 and the office is still trying to get the caffeine pumping. Somebody clicked on a phishing test email and made the mistake of admitting it in the break room and asking what the consequences were. Marc sent this to everyone in the room via company email along with the link to the phishing awareness training.

 
MikeyCanez said:
Fine, I'll play devil's advocate. Saban's dynasty is a lot more impressive than anything our coaches did and sure, he paid players, but so did everyone else.

I guess you could argue that he didn't "build the template", but he actually built a real dynasty, our coaches built a national championship contender.
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The bolded part of your argument is the one I simply cannot abide.

Mark Emmert was President of the NCAA from 11/2010-3/2023. He was LSU Chancellor from 1999 to 2004, overlapping with Nick Saban's time as HC (11/1999-12/2004). While Emmert was NCAA President, the SEC (and mostly Bama) won the majority of Natties.

During Emmert's tenure, the NCAA conducted a painful investigation of UM utilizing a convicting Ponzi schemer's attorney to obtain evidence by improper methods and ultimately resulting in him firing his VP of Enforcement after that news surfaced in 2013. He also issued severe sanctions against Penn State following the Sandusky child abuse scandal. The NCAA also hit up Oregon in 2013 for reported violations involving improper benefits paid (under Chip Kelly). I'm sure there are other non-Bama schools I could list...

Meanwhile, Alabama's "pay for play" allegations and other improper benefits claims were never meaningfully penalized. When Yahoo Sports came out in 2013 and documented how DJ Fluker purportedly took money and other improper benefits at Alabama in 2012, nothing happened to Bama. There was also that Yahoo Sports article about supposedly Mark Barron taking money back in 2011 to keep him from declaring for the NFL draft, but nothing happened to Bama. I remember they also had a memorabilia selling report come out years ago that involved several players, including Trent Richardson among the alleged, but nothing happened to Bama. There was a report they even had an assistant strength coach placed on leave for purportedly providing Ha Ha Clinton-Dix with a "short-term loan", but nothing happened to Bama. And that doesn't even go into all of the "red Mustang" social media posts and other eyebrow-raising stuff with the program.

Oh, and by the way, who became Managing Director of Enforcement for the NCAA back in 2013? Alabama graduate Derrick Crawford (undergrad and law degrees from Bama).

So do not come in here with that tried, "so did everyone else" narrative. It seems obvious there were different rules for Bama.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
The bolded part of your argument is the one I simply cannot abide.

Mark Emmert was President of the NCAA from 11/2010-3/2023. He was LSU Chancellor from 1999 to 2004, overlapping with Nick Saban's time as HC (11/1999-12/2004). While Emmert was NCAA President, the SEC (and mostly Bama) won the majority of Natties.

During Emmert's tenure, the NCAA conducted a painful investigation of UM utilizing a convicting Ponzi schemer's attorney to obtain evidence by improper methods and ultimately resulting in him firing his VP of Enforcement after that news surfaced in 2013. He also issued severe sanctions against Penn State following the Sandusky child abuse scandal. The NCAA also hit up Oregon in 2013 for reported violations involving improper benefits paid (under Chip Kelly). I'm sure there are other non-Bama schools I could list...

Meanwhile, Alabama's "pay for play" allegations and other improper benefits claims were never meaningfully penalized. When Yahoo Sports came out in 2013 and documented how DJ Fluker purportedly took money and other improper benefits at Alabama in 2012, nothing happened to Bama. There was also that Yahoo Sports article about supposedly Mark Barron taking money back in 2011 to keep him from declaring for the NFL draft, but nothing happened to Bama. I remember they also had a memorabilia selling report come out years ago that involved several players, including Trent Richardson among the alleged, but nothing happened to Bama. There was a report they even had an assistant strength coach placed on leave for purportedly providing Ha Ha Clinton-Dix with a "short-term loan", but nothing happened to Bama. And that doesn't even go into all of the "red Mustang" social media posts and other eyebrow-raising stuff with the program.

Oh, and by the way, who became Managing Director of Enforcement for the NCAA back in 2013? Alabama graduate Derrick Crawford (undergrad and law degrees from Bama).

So do not come in here with that tried, "so did everyone else" narrative. It seems obvious there were different rules for Bama.
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There’s always this little coincidence, while Bama was on probation and under investigation.

“Logan Young (1940–2006), a controversial University of Alabama football booster, died in April 2006 from an accidental fall down the stairs at his Memphis home, not in a homicide as initially suspected. Police found he suffered a fatal head wound after hitting an iron railing, which caused extensive bleeding throughout his home. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Key Details regarding the Incident
  • Initial Homicide Investigation: Police originally suspected foul play due to significant blood splatters found in multiple rooms.
  • The Fall: Investigators determined that Young tripped while carrying a drink and food up a staircase, hitting his head on a metal railing.
  • Final Moments: Despite the severe injury, Young was conscious for a period after the fall, walking through his home and moving to a bedroom where his body was found.
  • Background: Young was previously convicted of money laundering and racketeering conspiracy in 2005, a scandal involving the payment to a high school coach to steer a recruit to Alabama, which led to [NCAA probation for the school]. [1, 2, 3, 4]”
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
The bolded part of your argument is the one I simply cannot abide.

Mark Emmert was President of the NCAA from 11/2010-3/2023. He was LSU Chancellor from 1999 to 2004, overlapping with Nick Saban's time as HC (11/1999-12/2004). While Emmert was NCAA President, the SEC (and mostly Bama) won the majority of Natties.

During Emmert's tenure, the NCAA conducted a painful investigation of UM utilizing a convicting Ponzi schemer's attorney to obtain evidence by improper methods and ultimately resulting in him firing his VP of Enforcement after that news surfaced in 2013. He also issued severe sanctions against Penn State following the Sandusky child abuse scandal. The NCAA also hit up Oregon in 2013 for reported violations involving improper benefits paid (under Chip Kelly). I'm sure there are other non-Bama schools I could list...

Meanwhile, Alabama's "pay for play" allegations and other improper benefits claims were never meaningfully penalized. When Yahoo Sports came out in 2013 and documented how DJ Fluker purportedly took money and other improper benefits at Alabama in 2012, nothing happened to Bama. There was also that Yahoo Sports article about supposedly Mark Barron taking money back in 2011 to keep him from declaring for the NFL draft, but nothing happened to Bama. I remember they also had a memorabilia selling report come out years ago that involved several players, including Trent Richardson among the alleged, but nothing happened to Bama. There was a report they even had an assistant strength coach placed on leave for purportedly providing Ha Ha Clinton-Dix with a "short-term loan", but nothing happened to Bama. And that doesn't even go into all of the "red Mustang" social media posts and other eyebrow-raising stuff with the program.

Oh, and by the way, who became Managing Director of Enforcement for the NCAA back in 2013? Alabama graduate Derrick Crawford (undergrad and law degrees from Bama).

So do not come in here with that tried, "so did everyone else" narrative. It seems obvious there were different rules for Bama.
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SEC fans have a whole joke about how Missouri got all the punishments instead during Emmert's tenure. Here are just a couple.

www.espn.com

Major violations found at Missouri; penalties imposed by school

Missouri must vacate wins from the 2013-14 season and has been banned from postseason play this year as a result of an investigation into the program.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

mutigers.com

NCAA Infractions Information - University of Missouri Athletics

On January 31, 2019, the NCAA Committee on Infractions (“COI”) released an Infractions Decision outlining unethical conduct ( NCAA Bylaw 10.1 ), honesty and ...
mutigers.com mutigers.com
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
The bolded part of your argument is the one I simply cannot abide.

Mark Emmert was President of the NCAA from 11/2010-3/2023. He was LSU Chancellor from 1999 to 2004, overlapping with Nick Saban's time as HC (11/1999-12/2004). While Emmert was NCAA President, the SEC (and mostly Bama) won the majority of Natties.

During Emmert's tenure, the NCAA conducted a painful investigation of UM utilizing a convicting Ponzi schemer's attorney to obtain evidence by improper methods and ultimately resulting in him firing his VP of Enforcement after that news surfaced in 2013. He also issued severe sanctions against Penn State following the Sandusky child abuse scandal. The NCAA also hit up Oregon in 2013 for reported violations involving improper benefits paid (under Chip Kelly). I'm sure there are other non-Bama schools I could list...

Meanwhile, Alabama's "pay for play" allegations and other improper benefits claims were never meaningfully penalized. When Yahoo Sports came out in 2013 and documented how DJ Fluker purportedly took money and other improper benefits at Alabama in 2012, nothing happened to Bama. There was also that Yahoo Sports article about supposedly Mark Barron taking money back in 2011 to keep him from declaring for the NFL draft, but nothing happened to Bama. I remember they also had a memorabilia selling report come out years ago that involved several players, including Trent Richardson among the alleged, but nothing happened to Bama. There was a report they even had an assistant strength coach placed on leave for purportedly providing Ha Ha Clinton-Dix with a "short-term loan", but nothing happened to Bama. And that doesn't even go into all of the "red Mustang" social media posts and other eyebrow-raising stuff with the program.

Oh, and by the way, who became Managing Director of Enforcement for the NCAA back in 2013? Alabama graduate Derrick Crawford (undergrad and law degrees from Bama).

So do not come in here with that tried, "so did everyone else" narrative. It seems obvious there were different rules for Bama.
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A thousand times this.

People apparently just don’t get the unequal enforcement that went on during SEC dominance. Mark Emmert himself didn’t rule out the possibility of the death penalty during our emerging “scandal“. For what? Some cheap Benihana steaks and a boat ride.

Meanwhile, obvious and incontrovertible evidence came out during this period, of SEC schools, especially Alabama, paying players with cash and cars. Julio Jones getting thousands of dollars worth of free suits and clothes in Tuscaloosa. I can go on and on.

All of this is documented. Not one single thing was done.

Meanwhile, we’re in Miami sweating out whether we were even going to have a football program. Top recruits wouldn’t even consider us.Everybody knew what was happening, even in media, especially ESPN. It was all a wink and a smile then.

That’s why I don’t get why people complain about NIL. We literally had no chance at doing, for example, what we did in the 2015 season, the way things were without NIL. I know the current system is not perfect, maybe it can be improved, but we had no chance otherwise.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
A thousand times this.

People apparently just don’t get the unequal enforcement that went on during SEC dominance. Mark Emmert himself didn’t rule out the possibility of the death penalty during our emerging “scandal“. For what? Some cheap Benihana steaks and a boat ride.

Meanwhile, obvious and incontrovertible evidence came out during this period, of SEC schools, especially Alabama, paying players with cash and cars. Julio Jones getting thousands of dollars worth of free suits and clothes in Tuscaloosa. I can go on and on.

All of this is documented. Not one single thing was done.

Meanwhile, we’re in Miami sweating out whether we were even going to have a football program. Top recruits wouldn’t even consider us.Everybody knew what was happening, even in media, especially ESPN. It was all a wink and a smile then.

That’s why I don’t get why people complain about NIL. We literally had no chance at doing, for example, what we did in the 2015 season, the way things were without NIL. I know the current system is not perfect, maybe it can be improved, but we had no chance otherwise.
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There weren't even any Benihana's steaks. Those were receipts from unrelated meals that he threw in to blame on us. He had $75 Benihanas receipts and tried saying that was meals for multiple football players.

The whole thing was a classic fraudulent conveyance case. He was just trying to use us as a scapegoat so that he didn't have to pay creditors back, and as a bonus he got to make us look bad. Tim Reynolds said the forensic accounting totaled $4500 in actual benefits and it was just the used appliances and that ****.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
A thousand times this.

People apparently just don’t get the unequal enforcement that went on during SEC dominance. Mark Emmert himself didn’t rule out the possibility of the death penalty during our emerging “scandal“. For what? Some cheap Benihana steaks and a boat ride.

Meanwhile, obvious and incontrovertible evidence came out during this period, of SEC schools, especially Alabama, paying players with cash and cars. Julio Jones getting thousands of dollars worth of free suits and clothes in Tuscaloosa. I can go on and on.

All of this is documented. Not one single thing was done.

Meanwhile, we’re in Miami sweating out whether we were even going to have a football program. Top recruits wouldn’t even consider us.Everybody knew what was happening, even in media, especially ESPN. It was all a wink and a smile then.

That’s why I don’t get why people complain about NIL. We literally had no chance at doing, for example, what we did in the 2015 season, the way things were without NIL. I know the current system is not perfect, maybe it can be improved, but we had no chance otherwise.
Click to expand...

The elevation of "above-the-table" contractual compensation over "under-the-table bags" may go down as the most anti-SEC, pro-UM move in NCAAF history. And Mark Emmert (who infamously called NIL "an existential threat") and Nick Saban fought against it tooth and nail. ****, Nick's still speaking and fighting against it.

Put it this way: if there was a policy change being discussed that I knew absolutely nothing about, but you told me "Mark Emmert and Nick Saban are against it," I would tell you it's good for Miami and we should for on the opposite side of them.
 
caneingville said:
There weren't even any Benihana's steaks. Those were receipts from unrelated meals that he threw in to blame on us. He had $75 Benihanas receipts and tried saying that was meals for multiple football players.

The whole thing was a classic fraudulent conveyance case. He was just trying to use us as a scapegoat so that he didn't have to pay creditors back, and as a bonus he got to make us look bad. Tim Reynolds said the forensic accounting totaled $4500 in actual benefits and it was just the used appliances and that ****.
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Yeah, how can I forget a used washer and dryer for big daddy Wilfork. Not even a new one.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
The elevation of "above-the-table" contractual compensation over "under-the-table bags" may go down as the most anti-SEC, pro-UM move in NCAAF history. And Mark Emmert (who infamously called NIL "an existential threat") and Nick Saban fought against it tooth and nail. ****, Nick's still speaking and fighting against it.

Put it this way: if there was a policy change being discussed that I knew absolutely nothing about, but you told me "Mark Emmert and Nick Saban are against it," I would tell you it's good for Miami and we should for on the opposite side of them.
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Add Dabo to the dumbass trifecta. Again, I'm still bitter about Sammy Watkins and those social media posts of cash.
 
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