Slow and Strong vs Speed and Power

Cane18

Freshman
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Mar 3, 2012
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We all know a big innovation of Jimmy Johnson was to use speed and power to beat slow strong players.

Anybody have an answer why Golden is doing the opposite? Chickillo had his best success when he was lighter and faster as a freshman. Porter is so big this year he can hardly move. Even Duke Johnson is a step slower this year.

Penn State used to have big slow players, maybe that is the answer.
 
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Well, IIRC, Jimmy took smaller athletic guys and bulked them up...high school LBs were turned into DL, DBs into LBs...maybe I have that backwards, but I don't think so. If I'm right, then that kinda shoots down your post, no?

Oh, and Fiesta Bowl, January 2, 1987...ring a bell????
 
Well, IIRC, Jimmy took smaller athletic guys and bulked them up...high school LBs were turned into DL, DBs into LBs...maybe I have that backwards, but I don't think so. If I'm right, then that kinda shoots down your post, no?

Oh, and Fiesta Bowl, January 2, 1987...ring a bell????

Pedo state didn't win the game. Testeverde gave it to them.
 
its execution and smarts....we are lacking that..

Dline SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS.....they have been getting pushed back since Vince left....

when they play and disrupt LBs can see and Dbs can cover..we are really playing 7 on 7 out there and getting torched..size is important to deal with big Physical tight ends and wrs...but a tackle is a tackle...Sean Spence would take any size guy down he played here just over 210 lbs for 3 years...
 
its execution and smarts....we are lacking that..

Dline SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS.....they have been getting pushed back since Vince left....

when they play and disrupt LBs can see and Dbs can cover..we are really playing 7 on 7 out there and getting torched..size is important to deal with big Physical tight ends and wrs...but a tackle is a tackle...Sean Spence would take any size guy down he played here just over 210 lbs for 3 years...

We've been getting pushed back since Swasey starting running the S&C. He's the common denominator.
 
Well, IIRC, Jimmy took smaller athletic guys and bulked them up...high school LBs were turned into DL, DBs into LBs...maybe I have that backwards, but I don't think so. If I'm right, then that kinda shoots down your post, no?

Oh, and Fiesta Bowl, January 2, 1987...ring a bell????

We always moved defensive players forward. Safety LB, LB to DE. The difference is DTs. There we had 6'3" 300lb animals who crushed the middle of the oline back into the offensive backfield. That kept the guards and center off our smaller LB and from double teams on or tall lean, fast DEs. We have not had the proper DTs since Big Daddy. And we have been eaten alive up the middle ever since. Bobby Bowden said if you want to beat Miami all you have to do is take all the DTs. Al's sad *** defense is an alternative way of protecting your LBs-- have your sad *** weak slow DTs hug the oline until the rb is 10 yards downfield. That is our current defense.

Golden's defense is effective against our old teams--urber talented impatient offenses that like to score quick. TN, PSU and OSU used the tactic to beat us. Clearly it doesn't always work because we won 5 titles. Johnnie Majors used it against us first. Rush 3 and drop 8, keep everything in front of you waiting for Vinny to throw 6 picks. Joe Pa stole it from him the next year. It allows endless shorter gains that we watched FSU< VT and Duke take over and over again. Not really suited for our usual type of athlete.

If you are going to use Al's D, the players must be thicker. With the DT in the 2014 class we could possibly convert back to our 4-3 or a more proactive 3-4 like Bama. Howard used one like it for our first NC. It just might not be in Al's DNA. IF he will not change from the passive form he uses, we have little hope and will have to wait for him to leave. JJ's 4-3 was more simple. Line up great SoFL athletes in a base defense and dare the other team to beat them. With the NFL HOF DTs we had it worked very well. We will need them back if we want to play that D.
 
Porter has lost weight.

I'm not sure what'll happen with his ideas long term but realistically nobody looks fast when they have no clue what they're doing and that is the biggest issue facing our defense. We've frequently had defenses that weren't overly complicated but turned our guys' athleticism loose. We have the opposite now.
 
we weak and slow.

the Utough weight room numbers look good but don't mean **** when our D line is getting pushed every time.

we gave up like 9 yards per carry to Duke.
 
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Porter has lost weight.

I'm not sure what'll happen with his ideas long term but realistically nobody looks fast when they have no clue what they're doing and that is the biggest issue facing our defense. We've frequently had defenses that weren't overly complicated but turned our guys' athleticism loose. We have the opposite now.

Pretty sure Porter put on weight this year
 
we weak and slow.

the Utough weight room numbers look good but don't mean **** when our D line is getting pushed every time.

we gave up like 9 yards per carry to Duke.
Giving up those numbers had more to do with the defense quitting than being weak IMO. If those guys were allowed to be aggressive they would have dominated that duke Oline. But the defense gives zero ***** and I can't blame them.
 
The strongest utough guys are corey king n earl moore....I'll leave it at that
 
We've become so obsessed with bulking guys up and trying to be something we're not with this 2-gap garbage.
 
In case, you did not read all of Gatorhater's post. This part stuck out to me.

"IF he will not change from the passive form he uses, we have little hope and will have to wait for him to leave. JJ's 4-3 was more simple. Line up great SoFL athletes in a base defense and dare the other team to beat them."

Well, IIRC, Jimmy took smaller athletic guys and bulked them up...high school LBs were turned into DL, DBs into LBs...maybe I have that backwards, but I don't think so. If I'm right, then that kinda shoots down your post, no?

Oh, and Fiesta Bowl, January 2, 1987...ring a bell????

We always moved defensive players forward. Safety LB, LB to DE. The difference is DTs. There we had 6'3" 300lb animals who crushed the middle of the oline back into the offensive backfield. That kept the guards and center off our smaller LB and from double teams on or tall lean, fast DEs. We have not had the proper DTs since Big Daddy. And we have been eaten alive up the middle ever since. Bobby Bowden said if you want to beat Miami all you have to do is take all the DTs. Al's sad *** defense is an alternative way of protecting your LBs-- have your sad *** weak slow DTs hug the oline until the rb is 10 yards downfield. That is our current defense.

Golden's defense is effective against our old teams--urber talented impatient offenses that like to score quick. TN, PSU and OSU used the tactic to beat us. Clearly it doesn't always work because we won 5 titles. Johnnie Majors used it against us first. Rush 3 and drop 8, keep everything in front of you waiting for Vinny to throw 6 picks. Joe Pa stole it from him the next year. It allows endless shorter gains that we watched FSU< VT and Duke take over and over again. Not really suited for our usual type of athlete.

If you are going to use Al's D, the players must be thicker. With the DT in the 2014 class we could possibly convert back to our 4-3 or a more proactive 3-4 like Bama. Howard used one like it for our first NC. It just might not be in Al's DNA. IF he will not change from the passive form he uses, we have little hope and will have to wait for him to leave. JJ's 4-3 was more simple. Line up great SoFL athletes in a base defense and dare the other team to beat them. With the NFL HOF DTs we had it worked very well. We will need them back if we want to play that D.
 
Miami used to lineup in a 4-3 2 deep man under bump n run and let our players play fast and make plays
 
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Holy ****, Golden just can't win no matter what he does. Don't get me wrong, I want D'onofrio gone as much as the next guy but what else can we find to ***** about. For years before this one everybody cried about the lack of strength and conditioning and that our guys look smaller than everybody else that we play. Now Golden comes in implements his U-Tough program as well as nutrition to our players which they hadn't had in years and what happens magically our guys get bigger and stronger. Next thing you know the team wins seven straight and you don't hear a peep about the strength and conditioning program, in fact some people were praising Golden because of the noticeable improved play of our lines. Then the team loses three in a row and the S&C program is a bid problem again. What the **** do you want the guy to do? I am guessing that if he goes back to what Shannon was implementing then we will whine again about not looking the part.
 
This isn't why we're losing games. It is because we scheduled Cincinnati.

The defense blows cack, the offense can't be relied on to step up and we seem to be quitting.
 
We haven't held up as the season has gone along, as I had hoped, but you guys are ******* crazy if you don't think UTough has made a huge difference.

UTough beat Florida.
 
We've become so obsessed with bulking guys up and trying to be something we're not with this 2-gap garbage.

Miami has no explosive defensive tackles, PERIOD. I don't care if they're playing 1-gap or 2-gap. The year Porter played a lot in 2009 he didn't show the explosion need to be a dominant player at tackle. Robinson showed the same as Porter in 2010 when he played a lot as a reserve. Chickillo wasn't explosive as a 245 pounder. The kid need weight and strength and he needs to move to the inside. Miami doesn't have a front 4 who can tie up and protect their linebackers. Lord, Miami stunts a lot and it is still ineffective. Linebackers were not effective at 220 pounds, couldn't shed a block so what are the alternatives? FSU plays with smaller linebackers but then they've got a front 4 that can protect them. Florida's linebackers are 230; Alabama's linebackers are bigger. A modern division 1 linebacker should be in the 230 range.

BTW, I remember you getting into arguments about Chickillo's lack of explosion coming out of high school and even his freshman year. You were right.
 
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