Sleeping with the Enemy (Shalala)

[TheOriginalCane]

Larry Coker was hired Feb 2001 and Shalala started June 2001. The 2 hires she was in place for, Randy and Golden, were not even top 40 salaries in college football.

Schnellenberger was paid a top 6 salary and Butch was offered a top 3 salary. It’s just a coincidence we dramatically cut coach salaries when Shalala showed up?

Report: Al Golden salary ranks 42nd among college football coaches

In case you missed it: premium story in Wednesday’s paper ( subscribers, click here ) on Miami moving on from its loss to Florida State … free story on Hurricanes point guard Angel Rodriguez , the h…

amp.palmbeachpost.com

So you chose to ignore what I said about Coker's EXTENSION, which was a top 10 salary at the time it was done.

Look, if you want to keep moving the goalposts to support your bogus pre-determined conclusions, that is up to you. But Coker was paid well at the time of his extension, and that was when Shalala was President.

But keep denying facts and reality. That's on you.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

This might sound crazy, but some schools actually invest money into their football stadiums to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. That is if they actually care about football.

Yes, when they own their on-campus stadiums.

Please tell us how much Temple and Pitt and USF invest in their NFL stadiums?

 

[AllAboutTheU13]

So you chose to ignore what I said about Coker's EXTENSION, which was a top 10 salary at the time it was done.

Look, if you want to keep moving the goalposts to support your bogus pre-determined conclusions, that is up to you. But Coker was paid well at the time of his extension, and that was when Shalala was President.

But keep denying facts and reality. That's on you.

What happened with Randy and Golden? They suddenly couldn’t afford a Top 40 coach? As soon as Shalala left, they magically had money for Richt, Cristobal and major investments into facilities.

 

[Tru C]

Good God... I immediately jumped in this thread because of the title

For real. I was like **** somebody was blowing Shalala ***** open and that person convinced her to neglect Canes football?

 

[g8rh8rMD]

We should never forget history lest we repeat it. That being said, in this case, and with the new direction of the program, it serves no purpose other than opening old wounds.

Sometimes, the only way for old wounds to heal is for them to be periodically redressed. Memory holing the situation does nothing either. OP has a valid point and posted information that directly contradicts many of the narratives heard very recently and poses new questions. Nothing is to be gained by telling him that's in the past and he's not welcome to bring it up. It was valid information for discussion, especially given there's not really much actual news at the moment.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

What happened with Randy and Golden? They suddenly couldn’t afford a Top 40 coach? As soon as Shalala left, they magically had money for Richt, Cristobal and major investments into facilities.

What happened with your bullsh!te argument? Now you want to argue technicalities and irrelevant bullcrap?

Are you telling me that Coker's extension was NOT one of the richest in college football AT THAT TIME?

Whether people like you that make garbage arguments want to admit it or not, the hire of Randy Shannon was not some cost-cutting move. Paul Dee hired Randy because he believed that his experience and knowledge of UM would allow him to be an excellent coach. But that didn't mean that Shannon should be paid identically.

This is how uninformed people make half-a$$ed arguments. "What happened with Randy and Golden". Yeah, as if you never claimed that Miami suddenly stopped paying coaches the minute that Shalala took office, because I already disproved that garbage argument. And if either Shannon or Golden had succeeded, they would have earned substantial raises too.

As for "Richt" vs. "Cristobal", you are insane. "Major investments into facilities"? You literally don't know what you are talking about. After six years of doing nothing, Frenk had to be convinced that we have to spend money to make money. Oh, but his first six years of neglect are just forgiven?

You know nothing. You actually know less than nothing. You found some old information on what we paid Howard in the early 80s and cobbled it together with what we offered (but never paid) to Butch and you act like you discovered the lost Ark of the Covenant.

Ridiculous.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Lots of blame to go around. It's overly reductive and simplistic to just blame the person at the top.

Bull****. The person at the top takes the credit and takes the blame. That's why they're at the top. All those other letters are just a bunch of slurping distractions from the bottom line.

This kind of crap is exactly why OP was right to start this thread. As long as there are otherwise intelligent fans who will give a pass to the people who participated in destroying the football program, the topic is worthy of continued evaluation.

I'm sure we can all agree that there have been other variables that negatively impacted the football program over the years. What's ridiculous is to hear defenders such as the above argue that Shalala was nothing but a positive influence on the football program and indeed the world. Like she is some kind of ******* saint that could do no wrong.

And quite frankly, if she would just stay the **** out of UM's business now, I'm sure more of us would happily forget she ever existed. But the fact that she feels the need to run to a microphone and speak UM's name when it comes to football and stadiums, etc, goes beyond the pale.

 

[redcane]

Donna sucks. She hates UM football, if she is being honest (which most often she is not).

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Bull****. The person at the top takes the credit and takes the blame. That's why they're at the top. All those other letters are just a bunch of slurping distractions from the bottom line.

This kind of crap is exactly why OP was right to start this thread. As long as there are otherwise intelligent fans who will give a pass to the people who participated in destroying the football program, the topic is worthy of continued evaluation.

I'm sure we can all agree that there have been other variables that negatively impacted the football program over the years. What's ridiculous is to hear defenders such as the above argue that Shalala was nothing but a positive influence on the football program and indeed the world. Like she is some kind of ******* saint that could do no wrong.

And quite frankly, if she would just stay the **** out of UM's business now, I'm sure more of us would happily forget she ever existed. But the fact that she feels the need to run to a microphone and speak UM's name when it comes to football and stadiums, etc, goes beyond the pale.

I knew you were going to vomit some ridiculous bullcrap. It's your brand.

"Why the OP was right to start this thread". What a load of crap. It's just you trying to play games and keep your mope squad together.

Every modern-era UM coach...Howard...JJ...Dennis...Butch...Larry...Randy...and Al...were paid smaller initial salaries BECAUSE OF THEIR RESUMES. Nobody has ever had the resume of success at the highest level UNTIL RICHT AND CRISTOBAL.

Howard Schnellenberger had 1 year plus 3 games as an NFL head coach before he was fired, and he had no college coaching experience.

JJ got Oklahoma State to a massive 8-4 record, and had 5 so-so years at Oklahoma State.

Dennis had 2 years at a Pac 12 school, getting Washington State up to THIRD place in the conference.

Butch had no prior head coaching experience.

Larry had no prior head coaching experience.

Randy had no prior head coaching experience.

Al had 5 years of head coaching experience at Temple, with his best season being 9 wins, and no conference championships.

So the original porster gave two specific data points, which was an early 1980s salary for Howard when he had been successful, and an OFFERED salary to Butch when he had been successful.

For 90 years, under every single UM President, Miami never hired a football coach with an amazing resume, Miami never paid a football coach a substantial salary UNTIL he had won a lot of games. But the original porster would have us believe this is all about Shalala?

Yeah, whatever. Just a ridiculous load of crap.

 

[CaneinBroward]

Shouldn't most of the blame for the foibles of the athletic department be placed at the feet of the Board of Trustees? They make the final decisions, they control the pursestrings, they hire the President, they hire the AD, etc.

To me, Ruiz and his fellow pro-football members on the Board are the reason for this new direction in football. They have agreed to open up the check book. If not for them, nothing would have changed.

 

[kryptonite]

I would give my opinion on Shalala but it would likely immediately place me in the politics/personal attacks CIS censorship zone

Nah, I'm sure you'll be fine. Go for it.

 

[kryptonite]

Shouldn't most of the blame for the foibles of the athletic department be placed at the feet of the Board of Trustees? They make the final decisions, they control the pursestrings, they hire the President, they hire the AD, etc.

To me, Ruiz and his fellow pro-football members on the Board are the reason for this new direction in football. They have agreed to open up the check book. If not for them, nothing would have changed.

I guess, but it's so much easier to just dump it all on Shalala.

 

[Freddie Bear]

The only good thing one can say about Shalalala is she gone from The U and gone as the Groves Rep in Congress. Good Riddance!

 

[JBCanes-NC]

She is @Dr.L.ThugU aunt

 

[GojiraCane]

My thought was

What happened with your bullsh!te argument? Now you want to argue technicalities and irrelevant bullcrap?

Are you telling me that Coker's extension was NOT one of the richest in college football AT THAT TIME?

Whether people like you that make garbage arguments want to admit it or not, the hire of Randy Shannon was not some cost-cutting move. Paul Dee hired Randy because he believed that his experience and knowledge of UM would allow him to be an excellent coach. But that didn't mean that Shannon should be paid identically.

This is how uninformed people make half-a$$ed arguments. "What happened with Randy and Golden". Yeah, as if you never claimed that Miami suddenly stopped paying coaches the minute that Shalala took office, because I already disproved that garbage argument. And if either Shannon or Golden had succeeded, they would have earned substantial raises too.

As for "Richt" vs. "Cristobal", you are insane. "Major investments into facilities"? You literally don't know what you are talking about. After six years of doing nothing, Frenk had to be convinced that we have to spend money to make money. Oh, but his first six years of neglect are just forgiven?

You know nothing. You actually know less than nothing. You found some old information on what we paid Howard in the early 80s and cobbled it together with what we offered (but never paid) to Butch and you act like you discovered the lost Ark of the Covenant.

Ridiculous.

I think we need to look below the HC and see what we’re the salaries for the OC/DC beneath him. Maybe Randy and Golden were paid adequately, but were the other coaches paid a pittance?

 

[GojiraCane]

Pros on Shalala:
- Refused calls to cancel the 2006 season or kick players off the team after the FIU brawl; she would have been lauded nationally for having done so
- Refused calls to cancel the 2011 season; she would have been lauded nationally for having done so.
- Leveraged political connections (likely) to ultimately crush the NCAA investigation. They were likely gunning for a death penalty and/or a four year television and bowl ban, plus a ten scholarship reduction per year

Cons on Shalala:
- Refused to escalate spending when the SEC and Clemson were ramping up.
- Refused to budget the funds necessary to bring in more experienced assistant coaches
- Refused to hire a dedicated nutritionist when other schools like Alabama were bringing them aboard. Absent that personnel, Miami players under Shannon were eating one meal a day in some cases (and that meal was McDonalds). We had to wait until years into the Golden regime to get one
- Refused to upgrade facilities at a time when other schools were doing so. She waited too long.

Basically, at a macro level she saved the program when it would have been politically expedient to kill it. But at the same time she was not content (or was unable) to increase spending on staff and furnishments that would allow Miami to remain an upper tier program. That is probably the most fair assessment of her tenure, IMO.

 

[3GC]

I came across a couple interesting bits of info that fly in the face of the narrative we’ve been led to believe over the last couple decades as Canes football fans.

- In 1982 Schnellenberger was the 6th highest paid coach in CFB (see tweet below)
- In 2000, Butch was offered a contract that would’ve made him the 3rd highest paid (see article below)

Miami was in fact paying top dollar for football coaches up until 2000. But suddenly that changed - Randy was one of the lowest paid, almost coordinator level salary if I remember. Goldens salary ranked in the 40s. Shalala was hired in 2001.

Then suddenly in 2016 (Frenk was hired in 2015) we started paying more for coaches again. Richts $4M was top 20 in the country I believe, and now Cristobal is paid a top 10 salary.

One simple question: why did we pay top 10 salaries to football coaches right until Shalala was hired? And why did we start paying more again right after she left? I think we know the answer.

Butch League Butch Davis left Miami scrambling when he betrayed his players and bolted for a big-money deal with the Browns | Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com

She wanted Whiskey to beat us in perptuity..

 

[Crystal Ball]

personally id rather stick my meat in a beehive

 

[g8rh8rMD]

I knew you were going to vomit some ridiculous bullcrap. It's your brand.

"Why the OP was right to start this thread". What a load of crap. It's just you trying to play games and keep your mope squad together.

Every modern-era UM coach...Howard...JJ...Dennis...Butch...Larry...Randy...and Al...were paid smaller initial salaries BECAUSE OF THEIR RESUMES. Nobody has ever had the resume of success at the highest level UNTIL RICHT AND CRISTOBAL.

Howard Schnellenberger had 1 year plus 3 games as an NFL head coach before he was fired, and he had no college coaching experience.

JJ got Oklahoma State to a massive 8-4 record, and had 5 so-so years at Oklahoma State.

Dennis had 2 years at a Pac 12 school, getting Washington State up to THIRD place in the conference.

Butch had no prior head coaching experience.

Larry had no prior head coaching experience.

Randy had no prior head coaching experience.

Al had 5 years of head coaching experience at Temple, with his best season being 9 wins, and no conference championships.

So the original porster gave two specific data points, which was an early 1980s salary for Howard when he had been successful, and an OFFERED salary to Butch when he had been successful.

For 90 years, under every single UM President, Miami never hired a football coach with an amazing resume, Miami never paid a football coach a substantial salary UNTIL he had won a lot of games. But the original porster would have us believe this is all about Shalala?

Yeah, whatever. Just a ridiculous load of crap.

Solid work. Start by making it personal, then mention a bunch of meaningless stuff without addressing any real specifics. You've got the formula down to a T.

There's no doubt you are an intelligent person/poster (although quite childish at times), you are just dogmatically blinded by your agenda.

It's a results business, the results speak for themselves.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Pros on Shalala:
- Refused calls to cancel the 2006 season or kick players off the team after the FIU brawl; she would have been lauded nationally for having done so
- Refused calls to cancel the 2011 season; she would have been lauded nationally for having done so.
- Leveraged political connections (likely) to ultimately crush the NCAA investigation. They were likely gunning for a death penalty and/or a four year television and bowl ban, plus a ten scholarship reduction per year

Cons on Shalala:
- Refused to escalate spending when the SEC and Clemson were ramping up.
- Refused to budget the funds necessary to bring in more experienced assistant coaches
- Refused to hire a dedicated nutritionist when other schools like Alabama were bringing them aboard. Absent that personnel, Miami players under Shannon were eating one meal a day in some cases (and that meal was McDonalds). We had to wait until years into the Golden regime to get one
- Refused to upgrade facilities at a time when other schools were doing so. She waited too long.

Basically, at a macro level she saved the program when it would have been politically expedient to kill it. But at the same time she was not content (or was unable) to increase spending on staff and furnishments that would allow Miami to remain an upper tier program. That is probably the most fair assessment of her tenure, IMO.

I would add to the pros column her role in building the UHealth system, which is now hugely important to the University as a whole. I would also add to the cons column the clear fact that she established a standard that the athletic department as a whole and football in particular be deemphasized in prominence and stature. My opinion is that this was potentially in part well-intentioned to try and "heal" the national reputation of the university, thinking that nobody hates a loser. It was ill-founded and doomed to fail. There is also no doubt that she spent little time or energy getting to know the program and it's history and what made it special, including the Orange Bowl. Another addition to the cons column would be her role in seeing the OB demolished so unceremoniously. Those who claim she had nothing to do with the demolishing of the OB, but also want to give her credit for using her political will and capital to save the program during the NCAA investigation are being extremely intellectually dishonest.

EDIT: meant to add that your take was in general very fair and reasonable. Solid post. I also think that, if she had cared about the actual success of football and not just it's continued existence, she could have been more involved and more forceful years earlier in pushing back against the NCAA's nonsense. In hindsight, it's easy to forget just how bad that was and how long it went on. When she finally stepped in was only at the point that even ESPN and other outsiders were actually starting to say, "this is ridiculous, what is going on here?"