Scrimmage #1

[Loose Cannon]

I mean its tough to really debate this because it's a total "what if" but I think if Kaaya had this team last year he for sure would have been a better passer, ESPECIALLY in the big games. You like to point out we won a few of those games (fsu, vtech, unc), but you don't want to admit Rosiers performance was pretty trash in ALL the big games we played (statistically factual). We won some games that were close, but imo they wouldn't have even been close if we had better QB play.

No it's not a tough debate at all, and it's not a total "what if" unless you just want to revise history.

We know exactly how Kaaya performs in big games. He only ever beat one team that finished the season ranked in the Top 25, and that was a severely overrated West Virginia team in his final game here.

We know exactly how Kaaya performs with the ball in his hand and the game on the line. He lost. Every. Single. Time.


I didn't bring up Rosier, but it doesn't really matter much if Kaaya is a better QB through three quarters against overmatched competition if he can't perform as well as Rosier in big games in crunch time with the game on the line.

 

[The Owl]

According to ESPN's QB rating metric (which I favor for a number of reasons, most importantly because it takes into account a QB's scrambling ability), Rosier was the 38th best QB in the FBS last year.

LOL are you talking about QBR? Because QBR has been proven to be a terrible metric for measuring a QB's performance.

 

[Poptimus]

Is there a glitch with the site or something? @Loose Cannon did not quote my post, but rather @calinative umstudent

The alert I got said my post was quoted. What type of black magic is going on here??

 

[Loose Cannon]

Is there a glitch with the site or something? @Loose Cannon did not quote my post, but rather @calinative umstudent

The alert I got said my post was quoted. What type of black magic is going on here??

View attachment 62424

I actually hit reply to you on accident, then went back and edited it.

 

[CanesNation26]

LOL are you talking about QBR? Because QBR has been proven to be a terrible metric for measuring a QB's performance.

Nope, just simply not true. QBR isn't perfect. Sometimes it spits out really quirky ratings of individual games and ridiculous QB to QB ranking comparisons. Since it was initially unveiled, it has improved. Overall though, it is far better at assessing QB play than the traditional passer rating statistic, which is really outdated, especially for CFB. In fact, a study was done with the purpose of assessing which QB metric was most correlated with winning and QBR was found to be the most predictive statistic. QBR usually does a pretty good job at placing QB's in their proper ranking range. Rosier was an average, slightly above average QB in 2017 and QBR confirms that.

Is ESPN’s QBR the best measure of quarterback play?

 

[ThomasM]

Kaaya had the ball in his hand with a chance to get a victory many times and never succeeded even once. In three years we didn’t win a single game in which we were trailing after 3 Quarters.

Kaaya also played GOOD FSU teams. Last year FSU was a flipping dumpster fire. Even Kaaya beats FSU last year.

Kaaya wasn't the reason we lost to FSU the three years he played against them, but he was the reason the games were even close. Other players made mistakes that cost us far more than Kaaya. Berrios dropping a TD, Dobbard fumbling after a great pass and catch. I mean there are several reasons FSU beat us.

No it's not a tough debate at all, and it's not a total "what if" unless you just want to revise history.

We know exactly how Kaaya performs in big games. He only ever beat one team that finished the season ranked in the Top 25, and that was a severely overrated West Virginia team in his final game here.

We know exactly how Kaaya performs with the ball in his hand and the game on the line. He lost. Every. Single. Time.


I didn't bring up Rosier, but it doesn't really matter much if Kaaya is a better QB through three quarters against overmatched competition if he can't perform as well as Rosier in big games in crunch time with the game on the line.

Alright, but at some point people have to admit that Rosier went against the worst FSU team in recent memory while Kaaya went against playoff caliber FSU teams. Pretty big difference, if you ask me. Let me ask you, what would the scores have been in our close losses to FSU under Kaaya had Rosier been playing? Do you think he leads us to wins over the GOOD FSU teams? Do you think the scores are even close? I don't, but that's just me. Also, this team is far more talented than what Kaaya played on, and that's not even debatable. Kaaya played against better FSU teams than what Rosier played against. That's also not debatable. So if people are going to try to say "Rosier did what Kaaya couldn't", they need to realize that Rosier didn't face the same teams Kaaya did. 2014 FSU was a different animal than the 2017 FSU team. Apples to oranges.

One more question. In the close games we lost to FSU when Kaaya was here, would it have helped having the 2017 Miami defense instead of Coach NoD's garbage? 2016 Kaaya DID lead us down to tie the game, only to have our special teams blow it. He did enough in 2014, only to have players NOT named Kaaya ***** up. Berrios and Dobard cost us the game in 2014, not Kaaya. In 2015 didn't we have the lead late in the 4th until our D gave up a late TD to Dalvin Cook? Another talented player Rosier's 2017 team didn't have to worry about.

It's just not right to say a QB is better because they beat FSU. Guess Kirby Freeman was good as well. I mean he beat what was at the time the worst FSU team in two decades.

 

[The Owl]

Nope, just simply not true. QBR isn't perfect. Sometimes it spits out really quirky ratings of individual game and ridiculous person to person ranking comparisons. Since it was initially unveiled, it has improved. Overall though, it is far better at assessing QB play than the traditional passer rating statistic, which is really outdated, especially for CFB. In fact, a study was done with the purpose of assessing which QB metric was most correlated with winning and QBR was found to be the most predictive statistic. QBR usually does a pretty good job at placing QB's in their proper ranking range. Rosier was an average, slightly above average QB in 2017 and QBR confirms that.

Is ESPN’s QBR the best measure of quarterback play?

If you want to believe in a metric that has Jalen Hurts as the seventh best QB in college, go ahead. If you want to use a metric that has Danny Etling, J.T Barrett, Brandon Wimbush, Ahmad Bradshaw, Nathan Rourke, and Jake Fromm as better QBs than the likes of Sam Darnold, be my guest. I can continue to point out numerous references that QBR is trash if you want me to continue. Using QBR as some highly regarded metric is the equivalent of using ESPN's game simulator to bet on games.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Kaaya also played GOOD FSU teams. Last year FSU was a flipping dumpster fire. Even Kaaya beats FSU last year.

Kaaya wasn't the reason we lost to FSU the three years he played against them, but he was the reason the games were even close. Other players made mistakes that cost us far more than Kaaya. Berrios dropping a TD, Dobbard fumbling after a great pass and catch. I mean there are several reasons FSU beat us.

Alright, but at some point people have to admit that Rosier went against the worst FSU team in recent memory while Kaaya went against playoff caliber FSU teams. Pretty big difference, if you ask me. Let me ask you, what would the scores have been in our close losses to FSU under Kaaya had Rosier been playing? Do you think he leads us to wins over the GOOD FSU teams? Do you think the scores are even close? I don't, but that's just me. Also, this team is far more talented than what Kaaya played on, and that's not even debatable. Kaaya played against better FSU teams than what Rosier played against. That's also not debatable. So if people are going to try to say "Rosier did what Kaaya couldn't", they need to realize that Rosier didn't face the same teams Kaaya did. 2014 FSU was a different animal than the 2017 FSU team. Apples to oranges.

One more question. In the close games we lost to FSU when Kaaya was here, would it have helped having the 2017 Miami defense instead of Coach NoD's garbage? 2016 Kaaya DID lead us down to tie the game, only to have our special teams blow it. He did enough in 2014, only to have players NOT named Kaaya ***** up. Berrios and Dobard cost us the game in 2014, not Kaaya. In 2015 didn't we have the lead late in the 4th until our D gave up a late TD to Dalvin Cook? Another talented player Rosier's 2017 team didn't have to worry about.

It's just not right to say a QB is better because they beat FSU. Guess Kirby Freeman was good as well. I mean he beat what was at the time the worst FSU team in two decades.

It's not just FSU, even though all three of those losses were winnable games. 4 points in 2014, 5 points in 2015, and 1 point in 2016.

We also lost a winnable game against UNC by 7, ND by 3, Cincinnati by 11, Washington State by 6, Nebraska by 10, GaTech by 11, Pitt by 12, and South Carolina by 3.

That's eleven games that we could have won and most of them we should have won. They didn't all come under D'onofrio, and they most weren't even against good teams, let alone playoff contenders like you mentioned with FSU.

The only area of QB play that Kaaya excelled in is accuracy on short to intermediate throws. His pocket awareness was horrible, and his time management was putrid-never showing any urgency late in close games. Other areas where Richt praises Rosier? Getting everyone lined up and in the correct play. I attribute much of this team's dramatic reduction in procedure penalties to overall improved discipline, but it's obvious from the coach's comments that Rosier does a fair amount to help out with that by making sure everyone knows their assignments on each play and the snap count.

 

[Geddy Lee]

It's not just FSU, even though all three of those losses were winnable games. 4 points in 2014, 5 points in 2015, and 1 point in 2016.

We also lost a winnable game against UNC by 7, ND by 3, Cincinnati by 11, Washington State by 6, Nebraska by 10, GaTech by 11, Pitt by 12, and South Carolina by 3.

That's eleven games that we could have won and most of them we should have won. They didn't all come under D'onofrio, and they most weren't even against good teams, let alone playoff contenders like you mentioned with FSU.

The only area of QB play that Kaaya excelled in is accuracy on short to intermediate throws. His pocket awareness was horrible, and his time management was putrid-never showing any urgency late in close games. Other areas where Richt praises Rosier? Getting everyone lined up and in the correct play. I attribute much of this team's dramatic reduction in procedure penalties to overall improved discipline, but it's obvious from the coach's comments that Rosier does a fair amount to help out with that by making sure everyone knows their assignments on each play and the snap count.

I don’t think Miami had one delay of game penalty last year. Rosier mangaged the clock well and he had some balls. Kaaya religiously took delay of games and was a statue.

 

[ThomasM]

It's not just FSU, even though all three of those losses were winnable games. 4 points in 2014, 5 points in 2015, and 1 point in 2016.

We also lost a winnable game against UNC by 7, ND by 3, Cincinnati by 11, Washington State by 6, Nebraska by 10, GaTech by 11, Pitt by 12, and South Carolina by 3.

That's eleven games that we could have won and most of them we should have won. They didn't all come under D'onofrio, and they most weren't even against good teams, let alone playoff contenders like you mentioned with FSU.

The only area of QB play that Kaaya excelled in is accuracy on short to intermediate throws. His pocket awareness was horrible, and his time management was putrid-never showing any urgency late in close games. Other areas where Richt praises Rosier? Getting everyone lined up and in the correct play. I attribute much of this team's dramatic reduction in procedure penalties to overall improved discipline, but it's obvious from the coach's comments that Rosier does a fair amount to help out with that by making sure everyone knows their assignments on each play and the snap count.

OUR team wasn't the same then, either. Come on man, it's apples to oranges.

Also, Kaaya lost to Pitt his true freshman year. His junior year, we scored 51. You know, the year before Rosier lead us to 14.

 

[Loose Cannon]

OUR team wasn't the same then, either. Come on man, it's apples to oranges.

Which is why I didn't try to play the game of hypotheticals everyone else wants to play; how would this game or that game be different if you swapped Kaaya and Rosier.

I'm talking specifically about the moment. When the game is on the line and you got the ball, what did you do. Rosier has never lost in that scenario, and Kaaya has never won. Yes, of course we can nitpick for hours about what other factors led up to those moments, but the results are the results.

 

[Brooklyndee]

No it's not a tough debate at all, and it's not a total "what if" unless you just want to revise history.

We know exactly how Kaaya performs in big games. He only ever beat one team that finished the season ranked in the Top 25, and that was a severely overrated West Virginia team in his final game here.

We know exactly how Kaaya performs with the ball in his hand and the game on the line. He lost. Every. Single. Time.


I didn't bring up Rosier, but it doesn't really matter much if Kaaya is a better QB through three quarters against overmatched competition if he can't perform as well as Rosier in big games in crunch time with the game on the line.

Im not some huge brad fan. I honestly think lil more of him than rosier but if people held him to the same standard as rosier hed be in our ring of honor. I know its sacriligious & in know way am i comparing the players but the standard brad is held to is like saying marino was no good cause he never won a super bowl. Obviously thats an extreme. I think were in denial if we dont admit all of the intangibles were lined up for malik that brad never had. Also to say brad never had a signature win than say malik does is CRAZY... NONE of those squads last year proved to be worth ****. Use that same arguement than for brad. For instance that ufag team that we beat at joe robbie yes they had an absurd amount of injuries after they played us. But that team was either top 5 or top 10 when we beat them if i remember correctly & at that time was far better than any team we beat last year. The only team we beat last year that was even good was notre dame. Fspoo was basura,same with tech etc... for me maliks only good to great game was against syracuse. Im sure there was atleast one more but honestly watching our offense sickened me half the time last year. I was blacked out.

 

[CanesTruth]

Just got the chance to read through the thread. Had to say this. To be honest, the Rosier talk is getting real old, its like a broken record. We get it, he struggled at times last year. Especially in the accuracy department.

But... NO he is not a bad QB like some of you are arguing. YES.. he is the best option we have at QB and that has never been more clear. Richt has given the other guys every opportunity to go and get the job, but simply they are not ready yet. Rosier is battle tested. He has had ups and downs. But I am 100% supporting the guy who threw for 3000 yds and 26 TDs and ran for nearly 500 and another 5 TDs in the ACC.

He has shown himself to be a more than capable Power 5 QB. It is not like we have a Blue Chip guy ready to set the league on fire sitting behind him. I expect his interceptions to drop and completion percentage to go up, especially with added talent, depth, and a more experienced core at the WR position.

The kid is a competitor and a winner. Let's not forget he took control of the game versus FSU and gave us our first win over them in years. "Dark Horse Heisman" Kayaa literally gave that game away every year he was here.

Some of you need to be real fans and support our guy instead of talking about him being benched before he even attempts his first pass of the season. Looking forward to him balling out this season starting with LSU..

Go Canes

How do you honestly know if CMR gave the other guys a chance to win the job. You don't win jobs in spring camp and CMR named him stater in week 1 of fall camp. That open competition stuff was "coach speak". When it comes to qbs, CMR is always going experience over everything else. #12 was going to be the starter the whole time. So that point was invalid.

Kaaya balled out in his career vs FSU; unfortunately the team took Ls. Does that make him a lesser qb than #12, of course not. Again, another one of your points invalid. And your last point to be invalid is suggesting that some are not real fans because we express our differences. I want what gives us the best chance to be serious contenders for chips and not just fluking out wins over inferior competition. If my desire to see another qb(or any other position) differs from yours, so be it, its a forum. You want me to sugarcoat my thoughts, its not gonna happen(been riding this thang since '85).

Do i cheer for #12 to fail, **** NAW, and that's where you guys get it twisted bc you suggest that everyone should settle for bottom tier performance when there are other options in the stable. I watched some poor performance for the most parts of every game and moments of a gamer at times. My standards are higher than yours, i want chips, i want to compete with the big dogs, i want kids racing to sign with the U, i want the media to eat **** for all the neg we've heard over the previous 15yrs.

At the end of the day, im all CANES and loud and proud every time we take the field.

 

[OBLIVION]

What does Kaaya have to do with this years team?

Being there is no more discussion about the scrimmage. I am closing this thread.