Rewatched the UNC game

[dg151]

6.9 per carry in 11 personnel, 7.8 in 12 this year (excluding FAMU).

Both at 8.7 last 3 games, 11 actually a bit more consistent, 12 had a few big plays. 15/37 went 10+ from 11, 12/51 went 10+ from 12.

We're definitely running more from under center than earlier in the year. Probably a bit too much inside zone on under center plays from 11. We almost exclusively run inside zone at the TE in that formation. Hopefully see a nice counter from that against FSU.

 

[WestEndZone]

6.9 per carry in 11 personnel, 7.8 in 12 this year (excluding FAMU).

Both at 8.7 last 3 games, 11 actually a bit more consistent, 12 had a few big plays. 15/37 went 10+ from 11, 12/51 went 10+ from 12.

We're definitely running more from under center than earlier in the year. Probably a bit too much inside zone on under center plays from 11. We almost exclusively run inside zone at the TE in that formation. Hopefully see a nice counter from that against FSU.

Nice statistical perspective. Where are you getting those stats? I'd like to keep up with them myself.

 

[DMoney]

The personnel groupings have been dictated by the matchups, too. We spread Nebraska out because our #3 and #4 receivers were a huge mismatch over their nickel and dime backs. There was a huge speed deficit in general. It worked, but the defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

FSU is deeper at DB, thinner at LB and much faster as a team, so I'd expect more 12 and 22. I'm also concerned about protecting Kaaya with so many young OL out there, so that's another reason to go heavy.

 

[The Dude]

A few thoughts:

- We ran a ton of 12 and 22 personnel. About a month ago, WestEndZone told me that he felt we played best with two tight ends on the field. Coley must've seen the same thing, because we've been heavy with Dobard and Walford lately. Both guys are big and powerful at the point of attack while still being receiving threats, and it's no coincidence we've been so successful running the ball with them on the field. I'd like this trend to continue against FSU.

I'm curious if this is the case because that's when we're actually focused and patient with there run, or if it's a matter of execution. Because we run great stuff out of 3WR sets, too. But, we happen to have a tendency to lose focus, attempt to be clever, and end up disjointed. As another offering of support to my curiosity, we also look great when we play with a FB and TE - even out of the Gun. The common denominator in those scenarios is that we tend to go to those sets when Coley is on "we're going to run the ******* ball" mode. It happened a number of times last year - GTech and NC being two prominent examples.

To be clear, I'm not denying we're great in those sets, but rather that it *may* be a result of a clear identity with an emphasis on patience, as opposed to a schematic advantage.

Interesting you mention identity. Something else I mentioned in said conversation between D$ and me was that we didn't quite have an identity yet. I think we figured out that we needed to have a diverse running game with #8 and that we needed to protect Kaaya. The two TE sets (and the 21 personnel sets like you mentioned) allow us to do have the flexibility to run both man and zone blocking schemes in the run game, and it allows us to max protect the quarterback.

The diversity in running scheme allows us to have diversity in our boot game as well. We're able to have a healthy side to side boot game with our outside and inside zone run game. With our power and isolation man blocking schemes we're able to mix in vertical play action while max protecting. Right now this is serving us very well. It allows us to ride our All-American RB. It allows us to protect our true freshman QB. It allows us to have a terrifying home run threat with #4 running vertically off play action.

We use a pro system. Pro and multiple are almost synonymous. We need our 11 and 10 personnel groupings to serve as change ups or answers to what we identify as. I think for a few games we tried to do too much in those groupings. We got too cute.

Would this explain the lack of production from S. coley? Personnel grouping and subsequent play calling from said grouping.

 

[CanefaninBuckeyeland]

So how long will it take the Golden haters and slurpers to ruin this thread with their "fly the banner" or "Golden is a god" rhetoric?

 

[jerzeycane]

6.9 per carry in 11 personnel, 7.8 in 12 this year (excluding FAMU).

Both at 8.7 last 3 games, 11 actually a bit more consistent, 12 had a few big plays. 15/37 went 10+ from 11, 12/51 went 10+ from 12.

We're definitely running more from under center than earlier in the year. Probably a bit too much inside zone on under center plays from 11. We almost exclusively run inside zone at the TE in that formation. Hopefully see a nice counter from that against FSU.

The easiest counter to that is to have an athletic QB who can run a naked to the weakside.

49ers always wind up with Kaepernick streaking down the field on that action.

Catch them in a "man" down and distance, PA to the strongside and sneak Walford back across the formation.

Their inexperience at LB should cause them to have their eyes ALL in the backfield.

I think that has been referred to by some as uh...taking candy from a baby?

 

[jerzeycane]

6.9 per carry in 11 personnel, 7.8 in 12 this year (excluding FAMU).

Both at 8.7 last 3 games, 11 actually a bit more consistent, 12 had a few big plays. 15/37 went 10+ from 11, 12/51 went 10+ from 12.

We're definitely running more from under center than earlier in the year. Probably a bit too much inside zone on under center plays from 11. We almost exclusively run inside zone at the TE in that formation. Hopefully see a nice counter from that against FSU.

Nice statistical perspective. Where are you getting those stats? I'd like to keep up with them myself.

He charts every game.

 

[bobbydigius]

The personnel groupings have been dictated by the matchups, too. We spread Nebraska out because our #3 and #4 receivers were a huge mismatch over their nickel and dime backs. There was a huge speed deficit in general. It worked, but the defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

FSU is deeper at DB, thinner at LB and much faster as a team, so I'd expect more 12 and 22. I'm also concerned about protecting Kaaya with so many young OL out there, so that's another reason to go heavy.

FSU has mega talent, but they don't really have much of a pass rush, which is crazy to me because who they trot out there. Mario Edwards from a measureables standpoint should be a sack machine but he just isn't. I think we can protect Kaaya just fine, others have against them this year and it wasn't a problem. The question is what are we gonna do against their secondary. Yes, they do get beat, but everybody does. I have yet to see our WRs play well against athletes that are equal or better and that is what they will face against FSU. We really really need Stacy Coley to emerge here and be who we all believe he can be. Like you said though, we need to run the ball and test their thin LB corp in the passing with our TEs, we have match ups to exploit there. In a game where not many match ups will favor us, we need to exploit the few we do have.

 

[WestEndZone]

The personnel groupings have been dictated by the matchups, too. We spread Nebraska out because our #3 and #4 receivers were a huge mismatch over their nickel and dime backs. There was a huge speed deficit in general. It worked, but the defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

FSU is deeper at DB, thinner at LB and much faster as a team, so I'd expect more 12 and 22. I'm also concerned about protecting Kaaya with so many young OL out there, so that's another reason to go heavy.

Excellent points. I guess if you were to phrase that in terms of the "identity" argument, then what we did at Nebraska would be considered an answer to what Nebraska's defense was offering. Like you said, we played well enough to win on offense; and I like the idea of being able to win in multiple ways.

After the wins over Duke, Cincy, VT, and NC I felt like we were clearly the more physically imposing team. I'm curious to see how I feel after FSU. If we can run the ball effectively against their thin front, then I think we can dictate how the games goes. If we have success on the ground early, then I can see AG going all in with ball control, at least early in the game. We want it to turn into a football game after all the nerves die down and we want #5 off the field.

 

[The Franchise]

Let's see how this new identity holds up against a capable opponent with real life athletes on the 15th.

I like that we seem to have gotten away from that heavy horizontal Pat Nix style **** that was getting us nowhere. Now, let's see how effective we can be against a real opponent. Everyone who has played that UNC defense has looked great this year. It's the worst defense in college football.

 

[919cane]

This thread is CIS at it's finest. Thanks guys.

 

[WestEndZone]

A few thoughts:

- We ran a ton of 12 and 22 personnel. About a month ago, WestEndZone told me that he felt we played best with two tight ends on the field. Coley must've seen the same thing, because we've been heavy with Dobard and Walford lately. Both guys are big and powerful at the point of attack while still being receiving threats, and it's no coincidence we've been so successful running the ball with them on the field. I'd like this trend to continue against FSU.

I'm curious if this is the case because that's when we're actually focused and patient with there run, or if it's a matter of execution. Because we run great stuff out of 3WR sets, too. But, we happen to have a tendency to lose focus, attempt to be clever, and end up disjointed. As another offering of support to my curiosity, we also look great when we play with a FB and TE - even out of the Gun. The common denominator in those scenarios is that we tend to go to those sets when Coley is on "we're going to run the ******* ball" mode. It happened a number of times last year - GTech and NC being two prominent examples.

To be clear, I'm not denying we're great in those sets, but rather that it *may* be a result of a clear identity with an emphasis on patience, as opposed to a schematic advantage.

Interesting you mention identity. Something else I mentioned in said conversation between D$ and me was that we didn't quite have an identity yet. I think we figured out that we needed to have a diverse running game with #8 and that we needed to protect Kaaya. The two TE sets (and the 21 personnel sets like you mentioned) allow us to do have the flexibility to run both man and zone blocking schemes in the run game, and it allows us to max protect the quarterback.

The diversity in running scheme allows us to have diversity in our boot game as well. We're able to have a healthy side to side boot game with our outside and inside zone run game. With our power and isolation man blocking schemes we're able to mix in vertical play action while max protecting. Right now this is serving us very well. It allows us to ride our All-American RB. It allows us to protect our true freshman QB. It allows us to have a terrifying home run threat with #4 running vertically off play action.

We use a pro system. Pro and multiple are almost synonymous. We need our 11 and 10 personnel groupings to serve as change ups or answers to what we identify as. I think for a few games we tried to do too much in those groupings. We got too cute.

Would this explain the lack of production from S. coley? Personnel grouping and subsequent play calling from said grouping.

Tough question to answer.

Here's some stream of consciousness points to consider:
I think WR production is down of late. See above argument for more points to consider. I'm not sure he is getting the same number of snaps as last year. Last year he benefited from injuries. He would be getting many of the same looks #4 is getting if he was still injured. Maybe he's not practicing well. Maybe he's lost confidence. I think we're too detached as fans to get a complete answer.

 

[SWFLSWAGG17]

Gotta give Arthur Francis Kehoe credit, despite significant injuries, his unit has really come on

I thought at the beginning of the season UM's best bet offensively was to play more spread and go shotgun to mitigate the Oline, and now, the Miami's strength is mashing upfront and relying on the running game

I think Kehoe has really earned his salary this season...

Love me some Art Kehoe

 

[Canezum5]

Z

If you can, use ESPN3. It is what I have used to watch all of the games multiple times over. I'd like to point out that when watching it over and over you can see that the defense is just quicker in their decision making now and seems like they are trusting the system to work the way it is intended to. Nobody is freelancing around and it is making the unit click.

Umm no. Sorry the only difference is the alignment. We're closer to the Los and it allows the defense to respond faster mad more aggressive. Has nothing to do with freelancing and all that crap. Stop listening to al golden. And if you don't understand football ask someone to explain it for you.

 

[dg151]

6.9 per carry in 11 personnel, 7.8 in 12 this year (excluding FAMU).

Both at 8.7 last 3 games, 11 actually a bit more consistent, 12 had a few big plays. 15/37 went 10+ from 11, 12/51 went 10+ from 12.

We're definitely running more from under center than earlier in the year. Probably a bit too much inside zone on under center plays from 11. We almost exclusively run inside zone at the TE in that formation. Hopefully see a nice counter from that against FSU.

Nice statistical perspective. Where are you getting those stats? I'd like to keep up with them myself.

I think this is up to date.

 

[WestEndZone]

Awesome! Thanks.

 

[dg151]

Z

If you can, use ESPN3. It is what I have used to watch all of the games multiple times over. I'd like to point out that when watching it over and over you can see that the defense is just quicker in their decision making now and seems like they are trusting the system to work the way it is intended to. Nobody is freelancing around and it is making the unit click.

Umm no. Sorry the only difference is the alignment. We're closer to the Los and it allows the defense to respond faster mad more aggressive. Has nothing to do with freelancing and all that crap. Stop listening to al golden. And if you don't understand football ask someone to explain it for you.

Not really. We're doing a little more press bail stuff but everything else is pretty much the same.

 

[Oh Snap]

Gotta give Arthur Francis Kehoe credit, despite significant injuries, his unit has really come on

I thought at the beginning of the season UM's best bet offensively was to play more spread and go shotgun to mitigate the Oline, and now, the Miami's strength is mashing upfront and relying on the running game

I think Kehoe has really earned his salary this season...

Love me some Art Kehoe

For the record, he earned his salary last season, too....

 

[TheMatador]

ok, I have no shame. What is 12 and 22 personnel?

I had the same question. Here are some pages I found with google. (It was not easy to google, I first came up with games played on Dec. 22nd and others were games with a score of 22-12. I then put in "12 and 22 football personnel").

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/03/offensive-packages/

http://central.sonsofsamhorn.net/nfl/understanding-football-offensive-personnel-packages/

http://www.rollbamaroll.com/2014/5/30/5763582/alabama-football-why-kiffin-must-feature-te-o-j-howard-and-12

Try my google search and you can find enough articles to read, including how it's used in the NFL, etc.

I'm a firm believer in anything that gets the running game going. I'm not an X and O expert, but I've been watching the game long enough to believe in establishing a solid running game to make your passing game more effective. It also helps the defense if you can keep the ball on the ground longer. All of this should be obvious. This is another reason why I'm not sure I agree with people that want to get a pass-happy head coach.

I looked to see if I could find a statistical breakdown of Mike Leach's offense and pass/run ratio. I found this analysis, which shows the number of touches and yardage for the "F" position, or running back. It shows that Leach does not get that much production out of the running back, either from running plays or passes caught. The article does state that WSU has historically been bad at running the ball. Well, that was not true about 25 years ago, when Dennis Erickson was there, and also ran a one back offense. His last year at WSU, Erickson had Two 1000 yard runners: Rich Swinton and Steve Broussard. While most thought of Erickson as a pass-oriented coach, these stats from his last WSU team, which caught a lot of national attention because of its' big upset of then No. 1 UCLA, show that he ran the ball almost twice as many times as he passed: 50 rushing attempts per game to 28 passing attempts per game:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/washington-state/1988.html

(Please tell me if I'm reading these stats wrong).

When looking back on the 1984 Orange Bowl, where we upset Nebraska, Bernie Kosar said they started to catch up on us when we got out of our pass/run balance. When Butch came back to UM, he wanted a very balanced offense; he said he had his biggest problems as an NFL DC when they faced balanced offenses.

If we run a lot of two TE sets, and get the running game going, we can give FSU a lot of problems. If we don't, it will be a long night for us. I don't mind keeping two TEs in much of the time, especially since both can be receiving threats.

 

[Canezum5]

Funny how much I had to take up for kehoe this summer and earlier this year. Getting called every computer coach insult in the book. But proof is in the pudding. He is and has been the best coach on this staff from Al's first year. Only problem has been play calling. Kehoe specializes in teaching that zone blocking. That is the biggest difference in our success in the run game. Not just the double tight sets. Coleus getting away from all that power and calling a lot of zone here lately.

A position coach is only as good as his coordinator. Remember that. Paul Williams may be a great db coach but we'd never know cuz donofrio scheme is so terrible.

Now that we see an adjustment in offensive play calling and defensive alignment those same position coaches that were being trashed actually look like they know what they're doing now.

From the looks of the posts, the regurgitation of coach speak, and the inability to discern why we can't beat wake forest convincingly with thrice the talent is all the evidence I need that 99.9% of us have no clue what football is outside of rooting for the team.