Recruiting in Present day CFB and how it impacts Butch

[NVA CANE]

I'm no recruiting expert but Golden Showers brought up a good point in the Butch Davis thread and is a pertinent question if Butch is going to be our next coach. Those that know recruiting can you expound on this? I'll quote him below. But my questions are, has the recruiting landscape changed so much that it would mitigate some of what Butch brings to the table? I know he recruited studs at UNC, but he also had one of the dirtiest bag men to help him reel in players. I'm assuming he won't have that at Miami. So how does all of that impact his ability to recruit enough talent to win and win big (which is what everyone wants). With tech today, I'm also assuming finding diamonds in the rough won't be as easy.

Its 2015. Miami is 15 years removed from it's last title. If the coach comes in and doesn't win within the first couple of seasons, the cupboard will not get stocked b/c in 2015, kids don't want to play for mediocre programs.

This isn't 1996 where Miami coaches are able to get to know players better than any other staff. Cell phones and social media killed that years ago. Do you realize how different it was back then? A kid with an offer from Auburn got one in the mail, and the Auburn coaches had to hope and pray he A) had a phone line B) he picked up when they called. They couldn't text him after every win or tweet him or facebook him. So when Miami was ****** in 1997 we still had the massive upper hand bc the HC could come to the recruits school every **** weekend and built a relationship that no other school could touch.

THAT WAY IS OVER FOLKS. Now, if a kid has an offer from Auburn, he likely has just as much contact and relationship with them as he does the local team. That means the selling point for that kid is going to come down to HOW THE TEAM IS PLAYING. Yes, kids will come here bc of the brand and the location, but if the team sucks then all we have to draw kids is some documentary of how things were. You aren't "out relationship-ing" schools for SoFla recruits anymore. Technology ended that.

So you have to win. And win fast.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Recruiting is a gift and he has it

 

[deleted3746]

Butch will never have an issue recruiting. It's his gameday coRching that holds his teams back.

 

[NVA CANE]

Butch will never have an issue recruiting. It's his gameday coRching that holds his teams back.

I agree, but will he recruit in the present day to the level he needs to overcome his game day coaching?

 

[FullyERicht]

His recruiting at UNC followed the same disturbing pattern you see all over.

First two seasons he closes on some elite kids.

Then he didn't win fast enough, and stopped landing em.

 

[58straight]

yeah its easier to contact kids through the internet and social media, but if there is a star in your backyard 30 mins from your school and you dont have a better relationship with him than a coach living in bumfuk alabama there is something wrong. The coach in closer proximity will always have an advantage. there are alot of things you can doubt butch on recruiting aint one of them

 

[chicanego]

I don't think recruiting would be a huge issue for Davis. Someone posted it in another thread, but one of the reasons so many players went to play for him at UNC is because of how many players he developed and sent to the NFL while at UM. I still think that track record would appeal to kids now, though being out of the game for 5 years doesn't help.

That being said, GS is right in that winning still carries a ton of weight in the recruiting game. Even if Butch steps in next season, he's going to need exceptional coordinators to win big. Even though UM is preparing to assemble a "mega staff" or whatever the fck that means, I don't like the idea of success hinging so greatly on coordinators, I want someone who brings a true coaching dynamic to the game. This is precisely the situation Les Miles looks to be dealing with now.

It's a huge reason I want a more X's and O's saavy coach and an innovator like Herman or (god willing) Chip Kelly.

 

[FullyERicht]

yeah its easier to contact kids through the internet and social media, but if there is a star in your backyard 30 mins from your school and you dont have a better relationship with him than a coach living in bumfuk alabama there is something wrong. The coach in closer proximity will always have an advantage. there are alot of things you can doubt butch on recruiting aint one of them

Wrong. The difference in relationship building from 1995 to 2015 is like going from the stone age to tomorrowland. Unless you are making it rain, you arent recruiting well (after the initial bump) if you don't win. Simple as that.

 

[NVA CANE]

I don't think recruiting would be a huge issue for Davis. Someone posted it in another thread, but one of the reasons so many players went to play for him at UNC is because of how many players he developed and sent to the NFL while at UM. I still think that track record would appeal to kids now, though being out of the game for 5 years doesn't help.

That being said, GS is right in that winning still carries a ton of weight in the recruiting game. Even if Butch steps in next season, he's going to need exceptional coordinators to win big. Even though UM is preparing to assemble a "mega staff" or whatever the fck that means, I don't like the idea of success hinging so greatly on coordinators, I want someone who brings a true coaching dynamic to the game. This is precisely the situation Les Miles looks to be dealing with now.

It's a huge reason I want a more X's and O's saavy coach and an innovator like Herman or (god willing) Chip Kelly.

Thats another aspect of the game that I think has changed. These offenses have leveled the playing field. The Baylors, Oregons, TCUs of the world may not have as much talent as an Alabama but they can hang with them because of the offense they run. With Butch, we would need a lot of talent to overcome his shortcomings as you said similar to Les.

I don't know I have a lot of doubts about Butch coming back. I love the guy, but deep down I get a sense its going to be a massive let down.

 

[58straight]

yeah its easier to contact kids through the internet and social media, but if there is a star in your backyard 30 mins from your school and you dont have a better relationship with him than a coach living in bumfuk alabama there is something wrong. The coach in closer proximity will always have an advantage. there are alot of things you can doubt butch on recruiting aint one of them

Wrong. The difference in relationship building from 1995 to 2015 is like going from the stone age to tomorrowland. Unless you are making it rain, you arent recruiting well (after the initial bump) if you don't win. Simple as that.

of course if a coach loses recruiting will suffer thats not a huge revalation , but i refuse to believe a coach in the same town as an athlete cant have a better relationship with that athlete than some guy thats an 8 or 9 hour drive away. unless the coach is being lazy or the recruit is flat out not interested in staying home

 

[Gru]

he didn't have a problem beating out teams for premier talent like Marvin Austin which wasn't all that long ago.

that said, Butch is a fallback option for a reason.

 

[FullyERicht]

yeah its easier to contact kids through the internet and social media, but if there is a star in your backyard 30 mins from your school and you dont have a better relationship with him than a coach living in bumfuk alabama there is something wrong. The coach in closer proximity will always have an advantage. there are alot of things you can doubt butch on recruiting aint one of them

Wrong. The difference in relationship building from 1995 to 2015 is like going from the stone age to tomorrowland. Unless you are making it rain, you arent recruiting well (after the initial bump) if you don't win. Simple as that.

of course if a coach loses recruiting will suffer thats not a huge revalation , but i refuse to believe a coach in the same town as an athlete cant have a better relationship with that athlete than some guy thats an 8 or 9 hour drive away. unless the coach is being lazy or the recruit is flat out not interested in staying home

They don't need to drive 8 or 9 hours. They can pick up a cell phone. They can tag them on Twitter.

Back in the day kids really didn't know coaches from other programs except for a few conversations or visits a year, if that. Now, they can be comfortable with any coach across the country. The playing field has been evened.

That's why kids like Alex Collins commit to Wisky and then Arkansas.

 

[FullyERicht]

he didn't have a problem beating out teams for premier talent like Marvin Austin which wasn't all that long ago.

that said, Butch is a fallback option for a reason.

right, his first year. He landed Marvin Austin and all the names from UNC after only one year of coaching there.

Then when they weren't winning very much, that ended. Just like Randy at Miami and Al at Miami. Thats the whole point.

You can't count on "stocking the cupboard" in 2015. It's a completely different environment.

 

[58straight]

yeah its easier to contact kids through the internet and social media, but if there is a star in your backyard 30 mins from your school and you dont have a better relationship with him than a coach living in bumfuk alabama there is something wrong. The coach in closer proximity will always have an advantage. there are alot of things you can doubt butch on recruiting aint one of them

Wrong. The difference in relationship building from 1995 to 2015 is like going from the stone age to tomorrowland. Unless you are making it rain, you arent recruiting well (after the initial bump) if you don't win. Simple as that.

of course if a coach loses recruiting will suffer thats not a huge revalation , but i refuse to believe a coach in the same town as an athlete cant have a better relationship with that athlete than some guy thats an 8 or 9 hour drive away. unless the coach is being lazy or the recruit is flat out not interested in staying home

They don't need to drive 8 or 9 hours. They can pick up a cell phone. They can tag them on Twitter.

Back in the day kids really didn't know coaches from other programs except for a few conversations or visits a year, if that. Now, they can be comfortable with any coach across the country. The playing field has been evened.

That's why kids like Alex Collins commit to Wisky and then Arkansas.

assistants being able to see the kid in PERSON whenever they want and actually being at the games to see them come off the field is an advantage over a tweet, in person human contact trumps that social media stuff along with the school being so close, unless which happens sometimes some kids just want to leave no matter what

 

[FullyERicht]

yeah its easier to contact kids through the internet and social media, but if there is a star in your backyard 30 mins from your school and you dont have a better relationship with him than a coach living in bumfuk alabama there is something wrong. The coach in closer proximity will always have an advantage. there are alot of things you can doubt butch on recruiting aint one of them

Wrong. The difference in relationship building from 1995 to 2015 is like going from the stone age to tomorrowland. Unless you are making it rain, you arent recruiting well (after the initial bump) if you don't win. Simple as that.

of course if a coach loses recruiting will suffer thats not a huge revalation , but i refuse to believe a coach in the same town as an athlete cant have a better relationship with that athlete than some guy thats an 8 or 9 hour drive away. unless the coach is being lazy or the recruit is flat out not interested in staying home

They don't need to drive 8 or 9 hours. They can pick up a cell phone. They can tag them on Twitter.

Back in the day kids really didn't know coaches from other programs except for a few conversations or visits a year, if that. Now, they can be comfortable with any coach across the country. The playing field has been evened.

That's why kids like Alex Collins commit to Wisky and then Arkansas.

assistants being able to see the kid in PERSON whenever they want and actually being at the games to see them come off the field is an advantage over a tweet, in person human contact trumps that social media stuff along with the school being so close, unless which happens sometimes some kids just want to leave no matter what

Maybe a little bit. But not even close to what it used to be. Which means you have to compensate now by winning quickly. Which Butch has never done.

 

[Salt]

would you rather have a face book girlfriend or one you can actually visit her house whenever you feel like it?

 

[Gatorhater]

Winning is important, no doubt, but today celebrity is so, so important everywhere -- see Trump. Butch has his own documentary, U part 2. He also has huge number of NFL stars he recruited and the best of these kids are worried most about getting to the NFL. Butch might in fact have an even bigger edge today than 15 years ago. EVERYONE knows him now. Everyone knows all those players HE sent to NFL. So while other coaches might have more contact with local kids than before, Butch also has a huge NEW weapon, his name recognition.

If Urban makes an impression of kids saying "you are my next Percy" then imagine Butch with "you are my next ....PICK A ALL PRO name". Butch can walk into a home where Urban and Saban are sitting in the livingroom and wave his hand, "move over children, the man is back in town!"

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Winning is important, no doubt, but today celebrity is so, so important everywhere -- see Trump. Butch has his own documentary, U part 2. He also has huge number of NFL stars he recruited and the best of these kids are worried most about getting to the NFL. Butch might in fact have an even bigger edge today than 15 years ago. EVERYONE knows him now. Everyone knows all those players HE sent to NFL. So while other coaches might have more contact with local kids than before, Butch also has a huge NEW weapon, his name recognition.

If Urban makes an impression of kids saying "you are my next Percy" then imagine Butch with "you are my next ....PICK A ALL PRO name". Butch can walk into a home where Urban and Saban are sitting in the livingroom and wave his hand, "move over children, the man is back in town!"

And then Urban and Saban pull out their 6 rings and laugh in his face.

 

[jkaz1]

+1...

This is Butch's strength. There are always - always - diamonds and rubies in the rough....

Just look at the most recent commit from Miami Jackson...He sounds like a solid player and he was committed to.....Toledo....

Many of the recruits Butch had at UNC were not big-time recruits. Some were (like Austin, the #1 DT in the country out of DC Ballou), but many weren't....

If Butch were to become the HC at Miami again, this is the least of my concerns....He is the difference maker in recruiting....

Being more aggressive on offense is his opportunity....I'm not concerned about defense or special teams with him....

All the other candidates will also have certain strengths and "opportunities"....

Recruiting is a gift and he has it

 

[OBLIVION]

I have no doubt Butch can recruit, develop great players and field great defenses.

I do however doubt he will go Gary Patterson and hire a great offensive coach. I doubt him recruiting solid QB's and i am afraid when his altar ego Botch takes the headset and blows ******* games.