Recruiting in Present day CFB and how it impacts Butch

[Brometheus]

Recruiting is a gift and he has it

This is the kind of comment that is causing so much conflict on CIS. cool story bro, explain why, how,etc. don't just say " he has it, the end"

 

[AUcane]

I don't think recruiting would be a huge issue for Davis. Someone posted it in another thread, but one of the reasons so many players went to play for him at UNC is because of how many players he developed and sent to the NFL while at UM. I still think that track record would appeal to kids now, though being out of the game for 5 years doesn't help.

That being said, GS is right in that winning still carries a ton of weight in the recruiting game. Even if Butch steps in next season, he's going to need exceptional coordinators to win big. Even though UM is preparing to assemble a "mega staff" or whatever the fck that means, I don't like the idea of success hinging so greatly on coordinators, I want someone who brings a true coaching dynamic to the game. This is precisely the situation Les Miles looks to be dealing with now.

It's a huge reason I want a more X's and O's saavy coach and an innovator like Herman or (god willing) Chip Kelly.

Thats another aspect of the game that I think has changed. These offenses have leveled the playing field. The Baylors, Oregons, TCUs of the world may not have as much talent as an Alabama but they can hang with them because of the offense they run. With Butch, we would need a lot of talent to overcome his shortcomings as you said similar to Les.

I don't know I have a lot of doubts about Butch coming back. I love the guy, but deep down I get a sense its going to be a massive let down.

You touched on Butch's biggest downfall as a coach - his very inconsistent track record at hiring coordinators. His coordinators (especially on offense) appear to fit a certain type of conservative type. That ain't gonna fly in today's game. Sure, it would set us up for 8-9 win seasons but if we want to get to that 10-12 win mark, we have to be aggressive/innovvative.

 

[jkaz1]

Look at the rosters during his tenure here yourself. Come to your own conclusions.

Research isn't terribly difficult...

Recruiting is a gift and he has it

This is the kind of comment that is causing so much conflict on CIS. cool story bro, explain why, how,etc. don't just say " he has it, the end"

 

[Brometheus]

Look at the rosters during his tenure here yourself. Come to your own conclusions.

Research isn't terribly difficult...

Recruiting is a gift and he has it

This is the kind of comment that is causing so much conflict on CIS. cool story bro, explain why, how,etc. don't just say " he has it, the end"

I know the rosters, I know the talent he's put in the NFL. Reading through this thread you can see various compelling reasons for why BUTCH CAN STILL SUCCEED. What i'm trying to say is the types of comments that basically sum up to " Butch Davis is the best coach in history" are useless because they only serve to polarize people on here. Not disagreeing with what he's saying, i'm disagreeing with how he says it.

 

[deleted3746]

Butch will never have an issue recruiting. It's his gameday coRching that holds his teams back.

I agree, but will he recruit in the present day to the level he needs to overcome his game day coaching?

If he has a top notch staff, maybe. He has some inexcuseable losses at Miami and UNC.

 

[ScubaCane]

In terms of recruiting, you would be hard pressed to find any candidate that can match Butch in this area. This should not be a concern at all

 

[canefan#1]

Butch would then remind the recruits he puts superstars in the NFL not average jags like Bama and Ohio St. He also would remind recruits the states of Ohio and Alabama are **** hole states to live in, especially the towns these campuses are located in. Butch would then tell the recruits there is a reason people don't move to retire in states like Ohio and Alabama.

 

[rustywalkedaway]

In terms of recruiting, you would be hard pressed to find any candidate that can match Butch in this area. This should not be a concern at all

If you mean Butch is a closer, I disagree. If you mean Butch's true gift is the ability to evaluate talent, I absolutely agree.

To go back to the original premise, a lot has changed in the past 15 years. Relying on Butch to find so many diamonds in the rough is likely misplaced faith as social media has made it a fact that it is easier to find such kids now, for all staffs. And then, as discussed, it is much easier to continually cultivate those relationships. You can hit them up, every day, and you don't even have to rely on them picking up the phone.

As an example of the diamonds issue, do you believe, for a second, that Sean Taylor wouldn't be one of the most highly sought recruits in the country if he played today? But back then only a handful of programs were really on the then impressive RB.

 

[kendallcanes]

It helps Butch.

He just sends "The U part 2" links all day.

 

[CaneTheGaytors]

Where the fugg are you all getting this "conservative" offense bullshyt from?

When he was our coach and actually had a full team (he faced real scholarship losses his first 3 years here) and a real QB (Dorsey), our offense scored plenty of points.

Only at UNC, did those questions arise, and then with Cleveland, but name me a Brown's coach whose offense has lit up the league in the last 15-20 years? I'll wait.

At UNC they also had lots of injuries and suspensions to top players during his tenure and he took over a horrible program. He actually made them respectable and lost a bunch of games by less than a TD. His teams were not getting blown out, even while having all of the aforementioned injuries and suspensions.

Either all you Butch haters are too young to have actually seen his teams play or you're just making **** up. I gather it's the latter for most of you.

 

[NVA CANE]

In terms of recruiting, you would be hard pressed to find any candidate that can match Butch in this area. This should not be a concern at all

If you mean Butch is a closer, I disagree. If you mean Butch's true gift is the ability to evaluate talent, I absolutely agree.

To go back to the original premise, a lot has changed in the past 15 years. Relying on Butch to find so many diamonds in the rough is likely misplaced faith as social media has made it a fact that it is easier to find such kids now, for all staffs. And then, as discussed, it is much easier to continually cultivate those relationships. You can hit them up, every day, and you don't even have to rely on them picking up the phone.

As an example of the diamonds issue, do you believe, for a second, that Sean Taylor wouldn't be one of the most highly sought recruits in the country if he played today? But back then only a handful of programs were really on the then impressive RB.

Good post. This is what I was getting at. No one, myself included denies Butch's evaluation talent. What is in question is whether he will be able to acquire enough talent to offset his shortcomings in present day recruiting and CFB. He will load the roster with talent no doubt, but just how much is the question with how things have changed. I think people may be overlooking that.

 

[theibisrules]

he didn't have a problem beating out teams for premier talent like Marvin Austin which wasn't all that long ago.

that said, Butch is a fallback option for a reason.

right, his first year. He landed Marvin Austin and all the names from UNC after only one year of coaching there.

Then when they weren't winning very much, that ended. Just like Randy at Miami and Al at Miami. Thats the whole point.

You can't count on "stocking the cupboard" in 2015. It's a completely different environment.

I disagree sir and here's why...Randy and Folden couldn't recruit but where they really lacked competency was at the self and player development phase. Butch doesn't have those issues.

 

[Coach Macho]

Yall trying to catch lightning in a bottle for a second time.

I still think winning = recruits.

Give me a coach who can win without being loaded to the brim with NFL talent. If he can win the majority of his games without that then it tells me he could set the whole NCAA on fire once he gets it. (elite talent that is)

 

[NVA CANE]

Yall trying to catch lightning in a bottle for a second time.

I still think winning = recruits.

Give me a coach who can win without being loaded to the brim with NFL talent. If he can win the majority of his games without that then it tells me he could set the whole NCAA on fire once he gets it. (elite talent that is)

Yep. A guy that can do more with less would do wonders here.

 

[canesrdynamite]

Winning is important, no doubt, but today celebrity is so, so important everywhere -- see Trump. Butch has his own documentary, U part 2. He also has huge number of NFL stars he recruited and the best of these kids are worried most about getting to the NFL. Butch might in fact have an even bigger edge today than 15 years ago. EVERYONE knows him now. Everyone knows all those players HE sent to NFL. So while other coaches might have more contact with local kids than before, Butch also has a huge NEW weapon, his name recognition.

If Urban makes an impression of kids saying "you are my next Percy" then imagine Butch with "you are my next ....PICK A ALL PRO name". Butch can walk into a home where Urban and Saban are sitting in the livingroom and wave his hand, "move over children, the man is back in town!"

And then Urban and Saban pull out their 6 rings and laugh in his face.

1 NC and 2 super bowl rings look pretty good too, I imagine.

Butch would have to work for sure to keep kids at home, but does anybody here think he's afraid of recruiting against the big boys? That he wouldn't be all in on recruits? Every time Butch talks about coaching he talks about recruiting & developing kids. He loves it.

As far as pressure to win right away, I think enough wins will come early for this not to be a huge issue. Even if he only wins 8 games and the team shows flashes, there will be hope. And, once you get a critical mass of talent, other talent will want in.

If he falls flat on his face with a losing season in the 2nd year, there are problems, but I don't think he has to win 10 games out of the gate to get kids to come to UM.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Winning is important, no doubt, but today celebrity is so, so important everywhere -- see Trump. Butch has his own documentary, U part 2. He also has huge number of NFL stars he recruited and the best of these kids are worried most about getting to the NFL. Butch might in fact have an even bigger edge today than 15 years ago. EVERYONE knows him now. Everyone knows all those players HE sent to NFL. So while other coaches might have more contact with local kids than before, Butch also has a huge NEW weapon, his name recognition.

If Urban makes an impression of kids saying "you are my next Percy" then imagine Butch with "you are my next ....PICK A ALL PRO name". Butch can walk into a home where Urban and Saban are sitting in the livingroom and wave his hand, "move over children, the man is back in town!"

And then Urban and Saban pull out their 6 rings and laugh in his face.

1 NC and 2 super bowl rings look pretty good too, I imagine.

Butch would have to work for sure to keep kids at home, but does anybody here think he's afraid of recruiting against the big boys? That he wouldn't be all in on recruits? Every time Butch talks about coaching he talks about recruiting & developing kids. He loves it.

As far as pressure to win right away, I think enough wins will come early for this not to be a huge issue. Even if he only wins 8 games and the team shows flashes, there will be hope. And, once you get a critical mass of talent, other talent will want in.

If he falls flat on his face with a losing season in the 2nd year, there are problems, but I don't think he has to win 10 games out of the gate to get kids to come to UM.

I'm not all that sure kids are more impressed by rings that are decades old, versus the 6 rings they witnessed those two coaches win in their lifetime.

 

[Coach Macho]

Winning is important, no doubt, but today celebrity is so, so important everywhere -- see Trump. Butch has his own documentary, U part 2. He also has huge number of NFL stars he recruited and the best of these kids are worried most about getting to the NFL. Butch might in fact have an even bigger edge today than 15 years ago. EVERYONE knows him now. Everyone knows all those players HE sent to NFL. So while other coaches might have more contact with local kids than before, Butch also has a huge NEW weapon, his name recognition.

If Urban makes an impression of kids saying "you are my next Percy" then imagine Butch with "you are my next ....PICK A ALL PRO name". Butch can walk into a home where Urban and Saban are sitting in the livingroom and wave his hand, "move over children, the man is back in town!"

And then Urban and Saban pull out their 6 rings and laugh in his face.

1 NC and 2 super bowl rings look pretty good too, I imagine.

Butch would have to work for sure to keep kids at home, but does anybody here think he's afraid of recruiting against the big boys? That he wouldn't be all in on recruits? Every time Butch talks about coaching he talks about recruiting & developing kids. He loves it.

As far as pressure to win right away, I think enough wins will come early for this not to be a huge issue. Even if he only wins 8 games and the team shows flashes, there will be hope. And, once you get a critical mass of talent, other talent will want in.

If he falls flat on his face with a losing season in the 2nd year, there are problems, but I don't think he has to win 10 games out of the gate to get kids to come to UM.

I'm not all that sure kids are more impressed by rings that are decades old, versus the 6 rings they witnessed those two coaches win in their lifetime.

Seriously. LOL

 

[canesrdynamite]

Winning is important, no doubt, but today celebrity is so, so important everywhere -- see Trump. Butch has his own documentary, U part 2. He also has huge number of NFL stars he recruited and the best of these kids are worried most about getting to the NFL. Butch might in fact have an even bigger edge today than 15 years ago. EVERYONE knows him now. Everyone knows all those players HE sent to NFL. So while other coaches might have more contact with local kids than before, Butch also has a huge NEW weapon, his name recognition.

If Urban makes an impression of kids saying "you are my next Percy" then imagine Butch with "you are my next ....PICK A ALL PRO name". Butch can walk into a home where Urban and Saban are sitting in the livingroom and wave his hand, "move over children, the man is back in town!"

And then Urban and Saban pull out their 6 rings and laugh in his face.

1 NC and 2 super bowl rings look pretty good too, I imagine.

Butch would have to work for sure to keep kids at home, but does anybody here think he's afraid of recruiting against the big boys? That he wouldn't be all in on recruits? Every time Butch talks about coaching he talks about recruiting & developing kids. He loves it.

As far as pressure to win right away, I think enough wins will come early for this not to be a huge issue. Even if he only wins 8 games and the team shows flashes, there will be hope. And, once you get a critical mass of talent, other talent will want in.

If he falls flat on his face with a losing season in the 2nd year, there are problems, but I don't think he has to win 10 games out of the gate to get kids to come to UM.

I'm not all that sure kids are more impressed by rings that are decades old, versus the 6 rings they witnessed those two coaches win in their lifetime.

True. Still, those super bowl rings might turn a few heads tho.

I just don't buy the idea that Saban and Urban are untouchable in recruiting. Butch could make some noise down here for sure, imo.

 

[shayleon]

I'm cool with the diamond in the rough recruiter but I would rather have the head coach that won't miss on Dalvin Cook, Amari Cooper, Sony, Torrance Gibson, Teddy Bridgewater and many others. I want somebody that's battling FSU$& Bama for recruits and winning, not somebody that's stealing recruits from FIU and Temple. The great coaches realize that winning the title of top class is imperative to winning on the field. If Butch is that guy, bring him on...

 

[Coach Macho]

This reminds me of the administrators at high schools who hire their Head Coaches based on their relationship to the community rather than what they did at their last coaching stop.

A coach can consistently have a winning record at a talent-less school like Cooper City, Western or West Broward but get his a$$ passed up for an HC gig by some street cat who got fired at his last coaching job...all because he "knows the neighborhood". These are the kind of coaches that can get some good ball players but often lose when they finally face a better coached team that has a fraction of the talent. And when they're not absolutely loaded with talent they're having a "down year".

I want a coach that can create a tradition of winning year in and year out, regardless of how much talent we have. I want 9-3 records even when the cupboard is bare...and watch the wins go up as we add the elite pieces. I don't want us to rely on 2000-2004 Canes talent just to win the Coastal.