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rb rotation with lyle

bshaw28 said:
THIS IS A WILD way of thinking. Not directed at you because a lot of people are saying this with DMoney leading the charge. But to give everyone an update....

5 of the current Top 10 teams have switched their opening day RB:

#1 Ohio St - CJ Donaldson started Game 1. Bo Walker is now the starter.
#2 Miami - Jordan Lyle started Game 1. Mark Fletcher is now the starter.
#6 Oklahoma - Jovantae Barnes started Game 1. Tory Blaylock is now the starter (Barnes is out of the rotation)
#8 Alabama - Richard Young started Game 1. Jam Miller is now the starter (Young is out of the rotation)
#10 Georgia - Nate Frazier started Game 1. Chauncey Bowens is now the starter.


Planting your flag on the "Lyle started game 1 so he's without question our #1 RB" hill - acting like 1 of these 4 scenarios which happen ALL THE TIME isn't happening here is WILD to me:


1) Starter doesn't live up to their pre-season hype. They play poorly, so you go to their backup
2) Starter plays well, but the backup plays better, so the backups becomes the starter
3) Starter is a 1A/1B situation. Carries are split evenly, so who starts doesn't really matter
4) Coach makes a mistake. Happens all the time. Coach simply starts/gives too much PT to the wrong guy
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Young started for Bama game 1 because Jam Miller was hurt but point taken.
 
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htownkidd said:
Young started for Bama game 1 because Jam Miller was hurt but point taken.
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100% - Jam Miller was the starter. But Young lost his starting job to Kevin Riley by Game 2 before Miller came back from injury. Now Young gets zero carries.

My point is - Alabama started a RB (Young) who is not good. Oklahoma started a RB (Barnes) who is not good. So people should at least be open to the possibility Miami (Lyle) did the same thing.
 
htownkidd said:
Young started for Bama game 1 because Jam Miller was hurt but point taken.
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Ding ding ding.

Lyle lost the job when he got hurt, not due to poor reps. So many dumb posts in this thread and it's kind of exhausting. CIS working overtime.

I've listened to most of the CIS podcasts while driving, and it's very clear who the best RB in camp was, Lyle. Everyone been saying he was running great and making big time plays in practice. The fact we got a cat on our roster that was making big time runs vs our D in practice makes me hard. Fletcher is good. Brown is good. Worse case scenario, we get Lyle back and he is part of a 3 back rotation and adds some speed. That's awesome. Best case scenario is Lyle is the man and takes our RB room production up a notch. Again that makes me hard cause we might just win something. We are gonna need all 3 if not all 5 of our RB's if we are going to win 8 straight games and a ACCCG on Dec 6th. Also having Lyle back means we can run a little more of the 2 back set as it's probably been our most dangerous formation.

Nobody knows if Lyle is just a good RB or something more. Not one person. I'm pretty darn excited to see young buck on the field making his case.
 
ageezy said:
he was the guy ... he's probably better than fletcher ... but you can't deny these two performances


not to mention great pass pro ... also, guys act like this is new, injuries have produced opportunities for guys all the time ... portis and dorsey come to mind off the top ... imo fletcher earned the right to continue the rhythm he had ...
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Fletcher is a good football player and vital part of the turnaround. However, he is not an elite RB. Good not great. Best case for our football team is Lyle is better. **** even Pringle hopefully can raise the level of play at the RB spot. This squad lacks elite players at the skill spots. Right now we have 1. Need more to win a nice trophy.
 
JHallCanes said:
You can kind see it with our recruiting

Mario has been recruiting 6-8 350lb monsters across the line for a reason. This is just what he wants to do.
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Because that build should travel lte in the season when you have to run the ball, granted, we’ve also collapsed late on the season, but o feel like he wants an efficient offense than can run on anyone.
 
bshaw28 said:
THIS IS A WILD way of thinking. Not directed at you because a lot of people are saying this with DMoney leading the charge. But to give everyone an update....

5 of the current Top 10 teams have switched their opening day RB:

#1 Ohio St - CJ Donaldson started Game 1. Bo Jackson is now the starter.
#2 Miami - Jordan Lyle started Game 1. Mark Fletcher is now the starter.
#6 Oklahoma - Jovantae Barnes started Game 1. Tory Blaylock is now the starter (Barnes is out of the rotation)
#8 Alabama - Richard Young started Game 1. Jam Miller is now the starter (Young is out of the rotation)
#10 Georgia - Nate Frazier started Game 1. Chauncey Bowens is now the starter.


Planting your flag on the "Lyle started game 1 so he's without question our #1 RB" hill - acting like 1 of these 4 scenarios which happen ALL THE TIME isn't happening here is WILD to me:


1) Starter doesn't live up to their pre-season hype. They play poorly, so you go to their backup
2) Starter plays well, but the backup plays better, so the backups becomes the starter
3) Starter is a 1A/1B situation. Carries are split evenly, so who starts doesn't really matter
4) Coach makes a mistake. Happens all the time. Coach simply starts/gives too much PT to the wrong guy
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I was not saying he’s without question our #1 RB. The dialogue around him has gotten down right disrespectful when the coaches clearly respect him. He has the potential to take our offense to the next level. We will see more of him now that he’s back to 100%
 
doctor dingleberry said:
I was not saying he’s without question our #1 RB. The dialogue around him has gotten down right disrespectful when the coaches clearly respect him. He has the potential to take our offense to the next level. We will see more of him now that he’s back to 100%
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It’s the same story with every back.

This time last year, we heard Martinez was slow and overrated and should lose reps to Lyle. They called me a spin artist for saying Martinez was still our top back.

Then this offseason, the narrative became that Fletcher couldn’t run. They were calling for us to pay Mekhi Hughes (the fifth-string back at Oregon) big money to be the “RB1” we needed.

Now it’s Lyle’s turn. That’s ok. This is a long season. We’re going to need Lyle, and everybody in the building expects him to deliver.
 
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doctor dingleberry said:
I was not saying he’s without question our #1 RB. The dialogue around him has gotten down right disrespectful when the coaches clearly respect him. He has the potential to take our offense to the next level. We will see more of him now that he’s back to 100%
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I 100% get the excitement around Lyle. I really do. He hit 91 & 61 yd TD runs last year. The coaches are excited about him. DMoney said Lyle's as good as Duke Johnson and predicted Lyle would have a huge game vs FSU.

But the phrase "Greentree All-Star" exists for a reason. Plenty of Miami guys have been hyped-up only to disappoint. I'm a show me don't tell me guy, so I go by what I see.

What I see is (outside of Wake Forest) Lyle struggles to get to 4 ypc. I'm not seeing someone to be excited about giving carries to.

If someone can point to something in his production below (all P4 games except WF) that I should get excited about besides "Lyle is great because the Coaches & CIS say he is" - I'm open to it.

The same way IMO people should look at these stats and be open to what they "might" mean.

1760309240185.png
 
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bshaw28 said:
If someone can point to something in his production below (all P4 games except WF) that I should get excited about besides "Lyle is great because the Coaches & CIS say he is" - I'm open to it.
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"He hit a 91 & 61 yd TD runs last year." This is why people are excited, especially since no one else the coaches trust to play RB can pop explosive runs like that (please don't cite Browns TD that wasn't against UF, they had 11 guys near the LOS). Your points are valid about his production against good teams last year. I made similar points arguing with geniuses who wanted to take carries away from Martinez and Fletcher in favor of Lyle last year. He was also a true freshman. He's had like 9 or 10 healthy carries the entire year; we didn't block anybody on at least 3 of them that I remember. If he still isn't producing after a few more weeks, by all means take a victory lap.
 
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bshaw28 said:
I 100% get the excitement around Lyle. I really do. He hit a 91 & 61 yd TD runs last year. The coaches are excited about him. DMoney said Lyle's as good as Duke Johnson and predicted Lyle would have a huge game vs FSU.

But the phrase "Greentree All-Star" exists for a reason. Plenty of Miami guys have been hyped-up only to disappoint. I'm a show me don't tell me guy, so I go by what I see.

What I see is (outside of Wake Forest) Lyle struggles to get to 4 ypc. I'm not seeing someone to be excited about giving carries to.

If someone can point to something in his production below (all P4 games except WF) that I should get excited about besides "Lyle is great because the Coaches & CIS say he is" - I'm open to it.

The same way IMO people should look at these stats and be open to what they "might" mean.

View attachment 339449
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I agree, I’m not sure what we have truly SEEN to believe he is going to take over as RB1. He’s pretty timid for our splits and scheme which seems to suit a pile mover better. We will see I guess
 
Lyle is a stud but I don’t think he has adapted to the system
The offense has stalled every time he’s been out there and it is not only this season… just go back and watched the Syracuse game last year

Go Canes
 
flips said:
"He hit a 91 & 61 yd TD runs last year." This is why people are excited, especially since no one else the coaches trust to play RB can pop explosive runs like that (please don't cite Browns TD that wasn't against UF, they had 11 guys near the LOS). Your points are valid about his production against good teams last year. I made similar points arguing with geniuses who wanted to take carries away from Martinez and Fletcher in favor of Lyle last year. He was also a true freshman. He's had like 9 or 10 healthy carries the entire year; we didn't block anybody on at least 3 of them that I remember. If he still isn't producing after a few more weeks, by all means take a victory lap.
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Well said & good points. The way I evaluate RB's - it's just hard to ignore the signs. Believe me, I don't want to do a victory lap. I hope I'm dead wrong.

The good news for Lyle is:

1) There's plenty of time still - Lyle's averaged 4 ypc in only 2 of 9 P4 games so far. Mark Walton only averaged 4+ ypc in 2 of his first 15 P4 games. So Lyle can fail to average 4 ypc the next 6 straight games and still be called a stud. Added bonus - DMoney's gonna defend Lyle to the death.

2) Louisville is coming up - Miami RB's feast on Louisville. Our last 4 games:

2019 Louisville - Cam Harris - 8-78 - 9.8 ypc - 0TD - 46 yd run
2020 Louisville - Cam Harris - 9-134 - 14.9 ypc - 1TD - 75 yd run
2023 Louisville - Mark Fletcher - 17-126 - 7.4 ypc - 2TD - 54 yd run
2024 Louisville - Damien Martinez - 12-89 - 7.4 ypc - 1TD - 30 yd run

Louisville's been an absolute slump buster. And Stanford after that just gave up a 87 yd TD run & 42 yd TD catch to Chris Johnson Jr. So the potential for big plays is coming.
 
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bshaw28 said:
Well said & good points. The way I evaluate RB's - it's just hard to ignore the signs. Believe me, I don't want to do a victory lap. I hope I'm dead wrong.

The good news for Lyle is:

1) There's plenty of time still - Lyle's averaged 4 ypc in only 2 of 9 P4 games so far. Mark Walton only averaged 4+ ypc in 2 of his first 15 P4 games. So Lyle can fail to average 4 ypc the next 6 straight games and still be called a stud. Added bonus - DMoney's gonna defend Lyle to the death.

2) Louisville is coming up - Miami RB's feast on Louisville. Our last 4 games:

2019 Louisville - Cam Harris - 8-78 - 9.8 ypc - 0TD - 46 yd run
2020 Louisville - Cam Harris - 9-134 - 14.9 ypc - 1TD - 75 yd run
2023 Louisville - Mark Fletcher - 17-126 - 7.4 ypc - 2TD - 54 yd run
2024 Louisville - Damien Martinez - 12-89 - 7.4 ypc - 1TD - 30 yd run

Louisville's been an absolute slump buster. And Stanford after that just gave up a 87 yd TD run & 42 yd TD catch to Chris Johnson Jr. So the potential for big plays is coming.
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Good points. I'm optimistic Lyle gets it sorted out against Louisville too. He had a nice run on that 6 yarder just before Lofton's hold. We need explosive runs from our offense this year. Last year, it was fine to just have the rare explosive run on plays like the Brown stolen TD agaisnt UF - get the defense to commit their safeties in the box, and if the RB breaks a tackle or two inside there is no one in the back end - because of how explosive our passing game was. We don't have that luxury this year.

The issues we have had running the ball this year are mostly because of the blocking from our interior OL and our TEs, not because the wrong RB is getting carries, IMO. Once Rivers came back last year I believe we were getting 20-30 snaps/game with an OL of Bell/Rivers/Carpenter/Cooper/CiCi and we ran roughshod in the A & B gaps with that lineup.

We need more consistency from McCoy+Samson/Cooper at guard and better run blocking from Brockermeyer. We only ran once out of 12 against FSU (Lofton's hold), which is a massive change from last year when we'd regularly run with Arroyo/McCormick or Williams in the game. Currently our run blocking from our TEs is somewhere between awful/subpar (Lofton) and average/below average (Bauman). Hopefully we make a leap in both respects over the second bye week, but we're getting close to the point in the season that it's unlikely we see a huge improvement.

I think Dawson and Mirabel are well aware of these issues. We've seen more creativity in the run game recently - running out of spread on that 6 yarder to Lyle against FSU, moving Cooper to LG pulling him and Bell and running off-tackle power out of 21 a couple of times against FSU, and avoiding running out of 12. I would like to see even more 21 sets (even some 20 sets) and more running out of spread when we are in 11. The latter I think would fit Lyle's strengths best.
 
DMoney said:
This is made up.

I said Lyle has the most NFL upside of any Canes back since Miller because of his size and athleticism. Never did I say he would be better than Duke at Miami.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but:

You think Lyle has more NFL potential/upside than Duke Johnson, right?

You also thought Mark Walton would have a better NFL career than Duke, right?

I guess my real question is.....why do you hate Duke Johnson so much?
 
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So some of you might want to slow your Lyle nonsense. Mario yesterday took time to praise Lyle and said clearly he was the #1 guy vs Notre Dame for a reason even tho they consider all 3 co-starters to a degree. Dawson also was very enthusiastic about getting him mixed into the game.
 
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bshaw28 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but:

You think Lyle has more NFL potential/upside than Duke Johnson, right?
You also thought Mark Walton would have a better NFL career than Duke, right?

I guess my real question is.....why do you hate Duke Johnson so much?
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Just because Lyle has more NFL Potential/Upside, doesn't mean he's the better college running back. He never hated on Duke
 
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