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Random Observations on the Clemson Game

Canegrad89 said:
No, here are just some of the ways Garcia is both the best QB on the roster and the best of the healthy QBs on the roster:

1) He's 1-0 and willed his team to victory on the last play. TVD is a .500 QB over the last 2 yrs and 3-5 this yr with a QBR of 52. JB is 1-1

2) Jake has scored the most points per minute of any of the QBs this season. Against the same opponent on the same day, he's outscored both TVD (MTSU & Duke) and Jacurri (today 7 vs 3).

3) He's currently way more effective passing the ball than JB. Against any quality opponent (like Clemson or FSU), you cannot be a one trick pony or you end up with 80 yards of offense through 3 qtrs. You do realize that TVD has a 52 QBR this year and struggled to hit the side of a barn against weak opponents, right? I think too many on here are remembering all the yards from last year.

Jake is the best QB on the roster and the facts prove it. Yes, he needs to cut down on the turnovers and improve his pocket awareness but he's still young & can improve. I believe he has the physical tools to be highly effective. He will score more than other QB on our roster, if he's not handcuffed by the playcalling.
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I am fathomed that you took the time to write this. First JAKE IS IN THE PORTAL AFTER NEXT WEEK. Second you really should stop spending your time highlighting that you are not smart.
 
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Canegrad89 said:
We haven't scored 25+ points in an ACC game the entire year because TVD and Jacurri started all of the games...except one which Jake started (which we won). We won that game even though our "wonderful" OC decided to handcuff Jake every way possible to limit turnovers. Start Jake & don't handcuff him and I fully expect us to score 20-25 points minimum.
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remind me numbnuts how many points we had after regular time?
 
Canegrad89 said:
I respectfully disagree. TVD:

1) Was really good for five games in an air raid type scheme.
2) He has issues scoring in the redzone.
3) When he's on, he gains a lot of yards but those are "empty calories" because he isn't that strong in the redzone.
4) His "signature win" is last year against Pitt.
5) His W-L record is around the .500 mark (over the two years he's started). His record this yr is 3-5. That just isn't that good.
6) TVD has really struggled this year. Sorry, but he was the primary reason we lost to MTSU & Duke. He was missing WR by a wide margin in those games & seemed really on edge. Just keeping it real. We SUCKED in those games until Jake came in & tried to save the day (under the worst of circumstances).
7) His QBR is around 52 this year (which is very poor).
8) He apparently didn't really spend much time bonding with WRs other than X during the offseason. Is it a surprise then that the offense looked so disjointed?
9) There is much more to being a QB than throwing accurate short & intermediate passes (sometimes). For example:

  • Leading your teammates.
  • Inspiring your teammates.
  • Establishing great chemistry with your teammates.
  • Finding ways to win -- even when things are really bad (see Jake against UVA). He made a play at the end to win.
  • Being poised even when things aren't going well. If you watch games early this season, TVD looked on edge or even nervous. You could see it in the way he was constantly chewing his mouthpiece etc. He didn't look comfortable and some of those early opponents were weak.
  • Scrambling: Jake scored that critical 2-pt conversion using his legs. TVD was denied quite a few times on QB draws early this yr (to the point where it looked futile to even attempt those plays). These things all matter. In CFB (where margins between winning & losing can be razor thin), these things all matter. It's not just an accuracy contest on short & intermediate throws.
  • Winning games. Brad Kaaya threw for a ton of yards at UM. He set some records. However, I personally can't remember more than 1-2 great wins he had. Like TVD, all those yards gained seem a little like "empty calories". Guys like Steve Walsh, Bernie Kosar & Dorsey refused to lose. As much as we all revere him, Ken Dorsey had games that were literally painful to watch...but boy did he find ways to win. The BC game was the only one I can remember where he performed so badly that his teammates (Walters & Reed) had to pick up the slack. Our great QBs found ways to win even when they didn't play well. They were winners. I personally think that Jake would find more ways to win. I also think he has more moxie and a more magnetic personality.

All of these things matter (and more) when evaluating a QB. It's not enough to just sometimes be the most accurate passer on short & intermediate routes. That's seemingly the only thing you're basing your analysis on. Jake is stronger in the red zone, more mobile, has more moxie, has a better W-L record and QBR this year, has scored more than TVD against the same opponent on the same day, and scores more points per minute. These are facts.
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How long did it take you to write this? Are you in the building with the team and coaches? What are your sources that TVD doesn't lead? Go ask the players prick
 
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FrancisSawyer said:
Dude, if you haven't noticed nobody is playing well under these bozos. Every QB has regressed other than Brown because he's a freshman. What was TVDs QBR last year? I actually like Garcia, he's just the victim of Gattis and Ponce just like TVD has been this year. TVD has proven he can play at a high level in the right system. I like Jake but he hasn't proven anything on the field no matter what kind of meaningless stats you spit out.
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TVD can play in any system. Issues are all on Gattis. QB can't audible, QB does not call and can't change protection, Gattis wants and teaches 1 read pass plays without full field progression. WR's not coached well, at least to start the year, wrong routes, wrong depths, dropped passes. Last year QB called protections and more ability to alter a play.

The Garcia Strip sack yesterday, perfect example. Garcia did not call the protection and could not changed the play. So Garcia paid NO attention to DL situation. 5 OL blocked 3 DL to the right and left left side DE/LB unblocked. THEY RUSHED 4 ON THAT PLAY WE HAD 5 TO BLOCK.

#GGG
 
Canegrad89 said:
You can see what Jake is truly capable of (in terms of scoring points) if you look at the MTSU & Duke games. Against MTSU, Jake came in after TVD has us down 31-10. He came in about half way through the 3rd qtr and contributed to 21 pts scored in about one & a half quarters. Not a bad "run rate." Same thing against Duke (contributed to two fast TDs in the 3rd qtr alone after we had had scored only 7 pts under TVD in the entire first half & part of the 3rd qtr). Jake wasn't severely handcuffed by the OC in those games and he scored fast. That is a better indicator of his true scoring potential than the UVA game where there was clearly a severe over-reaction & hangover from the 4th qtr of the Duke game. Against UVA, the OC did everything he could to limit INTs & other mistakes. Unfortunately, that completely choked off the offense's scoring potential. In today's CFB, you can't be so afraid of throwing an INT that you revert to 1920s style offense (1.5 yards & a cloud of dust) in a desperate attempt to prevent an INT. In 90% of CFB games today, you'll get boatraced if you play that way. Everything was way too conservative. I'm sure Jake was also being conservative to avoid mistakes. I don't think the UVA game is at all a reflection of Jake's true scoring potential.
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5 turnovers? 4 in a quarter and half?
 
The result was as I expected. I stated earlier in the week that we wouldn't be able to run the ball against Clemson and we couldn't.

We have a patched up offensive line going against the #1 defensive line in the ACC. Clemson's defensive philosophy is to take away your strength and force you to beat them with your weakest link.

I thought Mario and Gattis would be conservative and they were. They needed to design 30+ passing plays for Jaccuri. However, he simply isn't ready for it. As the game went along, Jaccuri looked more like the true freshman that he is. He got the deer in the headlights look as he was double clutching balls that were supposed to be 3 step and throw. He was getting sacked when there were TEs/WRs open and I think the staff realized it was too much for him and made the switch to Jake.

This game was never going to be a win. Whether Gattis is retained or not is up to Mario, but everyone blaming Gattis for the lack of offense in this game is just laughable. It was always going to be this result simply because Jaccuri needs more time to develop.

As OP stated, Jake was moving the ball until Clemson's defense created turnovers. Well, that was Gattis as well. So, you can't have it both ways. The decision was made to start Jaccuri. We knew this was going to be a throw away developmental game. Why do people somehow have a different expectation when they knew or should have known what the result was going to be before the game even started?

I definitely agree the game was closer than the score and could have been even closer if we hit on the plays that were there to be made.

I DON'T think Clemson is a superior team in the ACC. Like FSU, they just execute. They didn't make any highlight plays at least not on offense. We could/should have held them to a much lower score in the 1st half which was difficult to watch. The team continues to make the same mistakes of not maintaining gaps, not playing with leverage, and not settling an edge.

I like Messidor, but he wasn't very good against the run today. In fairness, I don't know if it was part of the scheme for him to crash down inside from the DE position. However, he was the outside defender on the right side and I saw him using his right shoulder to the inside of the left tackle completely pinning himself from toss sweep plays that Clemson exploited.

The defensive line had zero pass rush in the 1st half. They didn't look like the defensive line we've been accustomed to watching. The 2nd half was completely different getting pressure on DJ U holding Clemson scoreless for a large portion of the 2nd half.

The team is a work in progress, but I'm disappointed the progress is inept a lot of the time.

I do feel that we will not only be competitive with Clemson, but beating them in 2-3 years. They have an elite defense, but their offense is just mediocre particularly their offensive line. Again, like FSU, they just execute at a high level something we haven't done all season.

Maybe Clemson adds some pieces that pushes them back to the top, but I think we have an opportunity to make up ground in recruiting as we build depth with elite talent. I envision us having an elite offensive line going against their elite defensive line in a year or two.

It's a long road ahead, but Mario knows what a championship program looks like. I'm confident he'll build us a champion. It's just going to take time and a lot of hard work.
 
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Mario hired the OC of Michigan and the DB coach from Georgia because he wants to be them….

Missing, amongst other things, that no one is waiting 5-8 years to build to that when you can win differently, and accelerate the build.
 
Canegrad89 said:
Here's what you're missing in your analysis. The fact is that JB scored 3 points against FSU and 3 points against Clemson (average of 3 points against quality opponents). That means with your choice, the Canes have no shot (0% chance) at beating Pitt. Three points is not going to cut it. Pitt may not be as good as last year but they are 7-4. They will likely score 25+ points on us. Would you rather counter that with 3 points by playing Jacurri or try and beat them with 20+ points (which is highly likely if Jake starts & plays the whole game without handcuffs)? I'll take the 20+ points (even if there are a couple of turnovers). We have no chance to win otherwise. This is madness.
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The decision was made to play more of the younger players in the GT game to develop them for next year.

You don't change that philosophy for Clemson as it was never realistic to expect a win. Mario is getting the young players experience for next year.

People shouldn't lose their mind changing expectations at the drop of a hat.

Two weeks ago, it was "Jake isn't the guy. He's terrible. He should transfer." Now, it's, "He should have started so we had a chance to win."

We are in developmental mode.
 
My thoughts because you asked for them. I think Jake Garcia is the worst QB out of three by far. Lots of people are forgetting that JB is a true freshman and of course he has accuracy problems but with proper coaching and experience that can be fixed. He has incredible talent as far as a strong arm and running hard like a deer. Jake does not possess any of those traits and panics in the pocket. Go sell Jake to the highest bidder but not of fan of his. I'll take TVD and the high ceiling over Jake any day of the season.
 
FrancisSawyer said:
Don't be a knucklehead man. You have posted good stuff before but excrement like the above isn't going to do you any favors here.

Do you know how I know that TVD is the best QB on the rooster when healthy? My eyes and common sense. I'm not as down on Jake as many are but he has been bad this year and I put that on 3 people. Mario, Gattis and Ponce.
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Fantastic and logical post, brother!

It’s scary to think that many of the posters on CiS lack the clarity to accept what their eyes are seeing, and the common sense to put 2 and 2 together.

I also am not as down on Garcia as others, and TVD is head and shoulders above the rest as a QB. It’s not even close.

In my opinion, with a competent OC and scheme, we would see TVD ball out again, and Garcia would look much better. Even Jacurri would most likely be much further along.

Our corches on the offensive side of the ball (Mario and Mirabal included), have caused most of our players to regress.

Lashlee and Justice had this line looking much improved in pass protection last season. I know we’ve had injuries, but even before the injuries our OL was putrid in pass protection against MTSU and Duke, which is why TVD got injured in the first place.
 
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jazperbc said:
TVD can play in any system. Issues are all on Gattis. QB can't audible, QB does not call and can't change protection, Gattis wants and teaches 1 read pass plays without full field progression. WR's not coached well, at least to start the year, wrong routes, wrong depths, dropped passes. Last year QB called protections and more ability to alter a play.

The Garcia Strip sack yesterday, perfect example. Garcia did not call the protection and could not changed the play. So Garcia paid NO attention to DL situation. 5 OL blocked 3 DL to the right and left left side DE/LB unblocked. THEY RUSHED 4 ON THAT PLAY WE HAD 5 TO BLOCK.

#GGG
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Where are you getting this information about Gattis?

Gattis teaching 1 read for the QB? That is so ridiculous it's comical.

First of all, Gattis coaches the WRs. Ponce coaches the QBs.

No OC or QB coach is going just teach a 1 read concept ignoring the 2-3 other WRs that may be open.
 
Canegrad89 said:
No, here are just some of the ways Garcia is both the best QB on the roster and the best of the healthy QBs on the roster:

1) He's 1-0 and willed his team to victory on the last play. TVD is a .500 QB over the last 2 yrs and 3-5 this yr with a QBR of 52. JB is 1-1

2) Jake has scored the most points per minute of any of the QBs this season. Against the same opponent on the same day, he's outscored both TVD (MTSU & Duke) and Jacurri (today 7 vs 3).

3) He's currently way more effective passing the ball than JB. Against any quality opponent (like Clemson or FSU), you cannot be a one trick pony or you end up with 80 yards of offense through 3 qtrs. You do realize that TVD has a 52 QBR this year and struggled to hit the side of a barn against weak opponents, right? I think too many on here are remembering all the yards from last year.

Jake is the best QB on the roster and the facts prove it. Yes, he needs to cut down on the turnovers and improve his pocket awareness but he's still young & can improve. I believe he has the physical tools to be highly effective. He will score more than other QB on our roster, if he's not handcuffed by the playcalling.
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people always say that reading what other people write can never make a person stupider.

they are wrong.
 
We need TVD to come back really badly. We need another year to develop Jacurri, see what the recruit has, and go find another 1-2. Otherwise, we need to be very active in the portal. We don't have a QB we can win with right now if TVD is gone.
 
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I
SCarolina Ibis said:
I have to ask.. you've been pretty down on Mario for a minute. Have to think you've heard from enough people close to him to form this opinion. Do you think he fixes this **** or has something convinced you otherwise?
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If he doesn't see he needs to change things, then he has no business in Coral Gables. And that Joke S&C coach Feld....Dude looked like he was literally glued to Mario's ***....I rewatched the game this a.m...and specifically watched the staff....It looked as bad as Shannon's sidelines. If Gattis and Steele are retained, then we've got insurmountable problems.
 
Rellyrell said:
I find it very interesting that many r quick to take up for Garcia, but quick to throw Brown under the bus. Interesting
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I mean let's be honest, this fan base is all over the place right now.

Last week Brown was the next Lamar Jackson to the vocal minority, this week he's not fit to be on scholarship to a different vocal minority.

It is what it is. I try not to pay too much attention.
 
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