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Random Observations on the Clemson Game

561caneforever said:
If the options in 2023 are Garcia or Brown it's going to be another bad year.
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Well if Spencer Rattler can turn it around, then there’s hope! My major problem with Jake has ALWAYS been my issue with him. He holds on to the ball too **** long. Most of his TOs come from that.
 
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FrancisSawyer said:
Don't be a knucklehead man. You have posted good stuff before but excrement like the above isn't going to do you any favors here.

Do you know how I know that TVD is the best QB on the rooster when healthy? My eyes and common sense. I'm not as down on Jake as many are but he has been bad this year and I put that on 3 people. Mario, Gattis and Ponce.
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I respectfully disagree. TVD:

1) Was really good for five games in an air raid type scheme.
2) He has issues scoring in the redzone.
3) When he's on, he gains a lot of yards but those are "empty calories" because he isn't that strong in the redzone.
4) His "signature win" is last year against Pitt.
5) His W-L record is around the .500 mark (over the two years he's started). His record this yr is 3-5. That just isn't that good.
6) TVD has really struggled this year. Sorry, but he was the primary reason we lost to MTSU & Duke. He was missing WR by a wide margin in those games & seemed really on edge. Just keeping it real. We SUCKED in those games until Jake came in & tried to save the day (under the worst of circumstances).
7) His QBR is around 52 this year (which is very poor).
8) He apparently didn't really spend much time bonding with WRs other than X during the offseason. Is it a surprise then that the offense looked so disjointed?
9) There is much more to being a QB than throwing accurate short & intermediate passes (sometimes). For example:

  • Leading your teammates.
  • Inspiring your teammates.
  • Establishing great chemistry with your teammates.
  • Finding ways to win -- even when things are really bad (see Jake against UVA). He made a play at the end to win.
  • Being poised even when things aren't going well. If you watch games early this season, TVD looked on edge or even nervous. You could see it in the way he was constantly chewing his mouthpiece etc. He didn't look comfortable and some of those early opponents were weak.
  • Scrambling: Jake scored that critical 2-pt conversion using his legs. TVD was denied quite a few times on QB draws early this yr (to the point where it looked futile to even attempt those plays). These things all matter. In CFB (where margins between winning & losing can be razor thin), these things all matter. It's not just an accuracy contest on short & intermediate throws.
  • Winning games. Brad Kaaya threw for a ton of yards at UM. He set some records. However, I personally can't remember more than 1-2 great wins he had. Like TVD, all those yards gained seem a little like "empty calories". Guys like Steve Walsh, Bernie Kosar & Dorsey refused to lose. As much as we all revere him, Ken Dorsey had games that were literally painful to watch...but boy did he find ways to win. The BC game was the only one I can remember where he performed so badly that his teammates (Walters & Reed) had to pick up the slack. Our great QBs found ways to win even when they didn't play well. They were winners. I personally think that Jake would find more ways to win. I also think he has more moxie and a more magnetic personality.

All of these things matter (and more) when evaluating a QB. It's not enough to just sometimes be the most accurate passer on short & intermediate routes. That's seemingly the only thing you're basing your analysis on. Jake is stronger in the red zone, more mobile, has more moxie, has a better W-L record and QBR this year, has scored more than TVD against the same opponent on the same day, and scores more points per minute. These are facts.
 
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Canegrad89 said:
I respectfully disagree. TVD:

1) Was really good for five games in an air raid type scheme.
2) He has issues scoring in the redzone.
3) When he's on, he gains a lot of yards but those are "empty calories" because he isn't that strong in the redzone.
4) His "signature win" is last year against Pitt.
5) His W-L record is around the .500 mark (over the two years he's started). That just isn't that good.
6) TVD has really struggled this year. Sorry, but he was the primary reason we lost to MTSU & Duke. He was missing WR by a wide margin in those games & seemed really on edge. Just keeping it real. We SUCKED in those games until Jake came in & tried to save the day (under the worst of circumstances).
7) His QBR is around 52 this year (which is very poor).
8) He apparently didn't really spend much time bonding with WRs other than X during the offseason. Is it a surprise then that the offense looked so disjointed?
9) There is much more to being a QB than throwing accurate short & intermediate passes (sometimes). For example:

  • Leading your teammates.
  • Inspiring your teammates.
  • Establishing great chemistry with your teammates.
  • Finding ways to win -- even when things are really bad (see Jake against UVA). He made a play at the end to win.
  • Being poised even when things aren't going well. If you watch games early this season, TVD looked on edge or even nervous. You could see it in the way he was constantly chewing his mouthpiece etc. He didn't look comfortable and some of those early opponents were weak.
  • Winning games. Brad Kaaya threw for a ton of yards at UM. He set some records. However, I personally can't remember more than 1-2 great wins he had. Like TVD, all those yards gained seem a little like "empty calories". Guys like Steve Walsh, Bernie Kosar & Dorsey refused to lose. As much as we all revere him, Ken Dorsey had games that were literally painful to watch...but boy did he find ways to win. The BC game was the only one I can remember where he performed so badly that his teammates (Walters & Reed) had to pick up the slack. Our great QBs found ways to win even when they didn't play well. They were winners. I personally think that Jake would find more ways to win. I also think he has more moxie and a more magnetic personality.

All of these things matter (and more) when evaluating a QB. It's not enough to just sometimes be the most accurate passer on short & intermediate routes. That's seemingly the only thing you're basing your analysis on. Jake is stronger in the red zone, more mobile, has more moxie, has a better W-L record and QBR this year, and scores more points per minute. These are facts.
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Dude, if you haven't noticed nobody is playing well under these bozos. Every QB has regressed other than Brown because he's a freshman. What was TVDs QBR last year? I actually like Garcia, he's just the victim of Gattis and Ponce just like TVD has been this year. TVD has proven he can play at a high level in the right system. I like Jake but he hasn't proven anything on the field no matter what kind of meaningless stats you spit out.
 
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What I saw was something I knew going in...

22 starters on offense and defense that wouldn't start on the other team. Some wouldn't see the field.

Crazy difference. We aren't a Lashlee offense away from anything that comes close to beating that team. We have been and are much worse than anyone wants to admit.
 
Canegrad89 said:
Here's what you're missing in your analysis. The fact is that JB scored 3 points against FSU and 3 points against Clemson (average of 3 points against quality opponents). That means with your choice, the Canes have no shot (0% chance) at beating Pitt. Three points is not going to cut it. Pitt may not be as good as last year but they are 7-4. They will likely score 25+ points on us. Would you rather counter that with 3 points by playing Jacurri or try and beat them with 20+ points (which is highly likely if Jake starts & plays the whole game without handcuffs)? I'll take the 20+ points (even if there are a couple of turnovers). We have no chance to win otherwise. This is madness.
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Why is it “highly likely” we score 20+ with Jake? Lol
Like he did against UVA? When has he ever led us to 20+ points? If you want to debate the offenses ceiling being higher with him than JB, then go ahead. That is at least a reasonable discussion to be had and I won’t argue you down on that. But “highly likely” we score 20+ with Jake is just an arbitrary number you are putting out there based on nothing that we have seen from the kid thus far under this staff. Pitt’s defense is fully capable of stifling us. Narduzzi is a lunatic and will give this offense fits next week regardless of who is out there.
 
Canegrad89 said:
We haven't scored 25+ points in an ACC game the entire year because TVD and Jacurri started all of the games...except one which Jake started (which we won). We won that game even though our "wonderful" OC decided to handcuff Jake every way possible to limit turnovers. Start Jake & don't handcuff him and I fully expect us to score 20-25 points minimum.
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Are you just leaving out the GT game which both Jacurri started and the we scored 35? You’ve made this inaccurate statement in multiple posts.
 
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Canegrad89 said:
Despite a poor performance on O, we actually had a small glimmer of hope at one point in this game ................



Your thoughts?
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****.jpg
 
Canes4Life88 said:
Are you just leaving out the GT game which both Jacurri started and the we scored 35? You’ve made this inaccurate statement in multiple posts.
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Yes. How could I forget this, lol.

We scored 28 points on O with JB 1x this year, that is a fact.

But it’s “highly likely” we score 21+ with Garcia, even though he hasn’t done that once this year, lmao.


Bruh if you don’t like JB and don’t want him playing then just say that. But miss us with the dumb bullsh*t you are spewing here.
 
Canegrad89 said:
He simply needs time to develop as a passer (likely 1-2 yrs). Other QBs like Travis at FSU & Hendon Hooker (Va Tech & Tennessee) have gone from being wildly inaccurate passers early in their careers to very solid passers by their Jr year. That may happen with Jacurri but he likely needs 1-2 yrs of development. It's mind boggling that anyone can watch today's offense through 3 qtrs (around 80 yds total) and say that gives us the best shot of winning.
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Travis is now serviceable that he is a 5th year guy
 
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Tyler is the best qb on this roster even with his issues with the small nuances of the game like red zone, reading the defense, and the leadership aspect.

That’s an indictment also on Garcia and brown. Who are both horribly flawed in their own unique ways. Opposites if you will.

Emory is not gonna be ready to go year 1.

If Tyler is back fine but if he’s not we need to strike gold in the portal. Which ain’t easy. Ufag took jack miller from taint. He’s garbage and got hurt and they’re stuck with ar15.
 
htownkidd said:
Why is it “highly likely” we score 20+ with Jake? Lol
Like he did against UVA? When has he ever led us to 20+ points? If you want to debate the offenses ceiling being higher with him than JB, then go ahead. That is at least a reasonable discussion to be had and I won’t argue you down on that. But “highly likely” we score 20+ with Jake is just an arbitrary number you are putting out there based on nothing that we have seen from the kid thus far under this staff. Pitt’s defense is fully capable of stifling us. Narduzzi is a lunatic and will give this offense fits next week regardless of who is out there.
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You can see what Jake is truly capable of (in terms of scoring points) if you look at the MTSU & Duke games. Against MTSU, Jake came in after TVD has us down 31-10. He came in about half way through the 3rd qtr and contributed to 21 pts scored in about one & a half quarters. Not a bad "run rate." Same thing against Duke (contributed to two fast TDs in the 3rd qtr alone after we had had scored only 7 pts under TVD in the entire first half & part of the 3rd qtr). Jake wasn't severely handcuffed by the OC in those games and he scored fast. That is a better indicator of his true scoring potential than the UVA game where there was clearly a severe over-reaction & hangover from the 4th qtr of the Duke game. Against UVA, the OC did everything he could to limit INTs & other mistakes. Unfortunately, that completely choked off the offense's scoring potential. In today's CFB, you can't be so afraid of throwing an INT that you revert to 1920s style offense (1.5 yards & a cloud of dust) in a desperate attempt to prevent an INT. In 90% of CFB games today, you'll get boatraced if you play that way. Everything was way too conservative. I'm sure Jake was also being conservative to avoid mistakes. I don't think the UVA game is at all a reflection of Jake's true scoring potential.
 
Canegrad89 said:
You can see what Jake is truly capable of (in terms of scoring points) if you look at the MTSU & Duke games. Against MTSU, Jake came in after TVD has us down 31-10. He came in about half way through the 3rd qtr and contributed to 21 pts scored in about one & a half quarters. Not a bad "run rate." Same thing against Duke (contributed to two fast TDs in the 3rd qtr alone after we had had scored only 7 pts under TVD in the entire first half & part of the 3rd qtr). Jake wasn't severely handcuffed by the OC in those games and he scored fast. That is a better indicator of his true scoring potential than the UVA game where there was clearly a severe over-reaction & hangover from the 4th qtr of the Duke game. Against UVA, the OC did everything he could to limit INTs & other mistakes. Unfortunately, that completely choked off the offense's scoring potential. In today's CFB, you can't be so afraid of throwing an INT that you revert to 1920s style offense (1.5 yards & a cloud of dust) in a desperate attempt to prevent an INT. In 90% of CFB games today, you'll get boatraced if you play that way. Everything was way too conservative. I'm sure Jake was also being conservative to avoid mistakes. I don't think the UVA game is at all a reflection of Jake's true scoring potential.
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I mean I hear you, I guess lol.

I still don’t agree with the “highly likely” we score 21+ but whatever lol.

Whose to say we wouldn’t “handcuff” him again? Rhetorical, don’t answer that.
 
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Canegrad89 said:
You can see what Jake is truly capable of (in terms of scoring points) if you look at the MTSU & Duke games. Against MTSU, Jake came in after TVD has us down 31-10. He came in about half way through the 3rd qtr and contributed to 21 pts scored in about one & a half quarters. Not a bad "run rate." Same thing against Duke (contributed to two fast TDs in the 3rd qtr alone after we had had scored only 7 pts under TVD in the entire first half & part of the 3rd qtr). Jake wasn't severely handcuffed by the OC in those games and he scored fast. That is a better indicator of his true scoring potential than the UVA game where there was clearly a severe over-reaction & hangover from the 4th qtr of the Duke game. Against UVA, the OC did everything he could to limit INTs & other mistakes. Unfortunately, that completely choked off the offense's scoring potential. In today's CFB, you can't be so afraid of throwing an INT that you revert to 1920s style offense (1.5 yards & a cloud of dust) in a desperate attempt to prevent an INT. In 90% of CFB games today, you'll get boatraced if you play that way. Everything was way too conservative. I'm sure Jake was also being conservative to avoid mistakes. I don't think the UVA game is at all a reflection of Jake's true scoring potential.
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Garcia led two TD drives vs. MTSU, the second one being when the team was down 45-24 with probably 5 minutes to go in the 4th. He also failed to convert on a first and goal from the 3 (right before the 99 yard TD by MTSU). Key Smith had a KO return touchdown to get to your "21".

You seem to be living in a fantasy land in regards to Garcia's performance vs. Duke. You posted earlier that TVD was the primary reason we lost to Duke? Not only is that wrong (he was knocked out of the game with 9 minutes left in the second quarter, not after playing "part of the 3rd quarter" as you say above), but Garcia totally failed and was not prepared to, as you claim, "save the day". Garcia had two fumbles and two picks (the first a terrible throw right at the end of the first half when we should've had at least a field goal attempt and the other a PICK 6 on an even WORSE throw).

His TD passes were Colbie Young mossing a DB and housing it and a 5 yard mesh route to Mallory which he ran 30 yards for a TD.

LOL @ he scored fast - there was 13 minutes left in the 3rd quarter after the Mallory TD and MIAMI DIDN'T SCORE AGAIN with Jake at the helm. I guess he threw that TD pass for Duke......

Please show me Garcia's QBR you keep saying is better than TVDs. ESPN shows Garcia with a QBR of 20, TVD 52.

I'd love to see turnovers/snap comparison for these two. I'm guessing you don't....
 
Canegrad89 said:
Here's what you're missing in your analysis. The fact is that JB scored 3 points against FSU and 3 points against Clemson (average of 3 points against quality opponents). That means with your choice, the Canes have no shot (0% chance) at beating Pitt. Three points is not going to cut it. Pitt may not be as good as last year but they are 7-4. They will likely score 25+ points on us. Would you rather counter that with 3 points by playing Jacurri or try and beat them with 20+ points (which is highly likely if Jake starts & plays the whole game without handcuffs)? I'll take the 20+ points (even if there are a couple of turnovers). We have no chance to win otherwise. This is madness.
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Jake did have 3 fg against UVA but I’m riding with Jacurri
 
STONE COLD'S OBSERVATION IS THAT YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF PUSSIES WHINING AND CRYING THAT DABO RAN UP THE SCORE. HOW STONE COLD SEES IT, IS IF YOU DON'T WANT DABO TO RUN IT UP, DON'T LET HIS PLAYERS IN THE ENDZONE.

AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, CAUSE STONE COLD SAID SO.
 
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