Portal and bags

[DTP]

Again, if you don’t change the 85 roster limit or 25 initial counter limit, the portal is irrelevant in the big picture. And it doesn’t help kids advertise - that’s wrong. In the era of social media every kid with a twitter account can tell the world he’s available. What the portal was intended for was to limit schools from poaching kids before theyd decided to transfer. It cleared it all up - no contact until a kid is in the portal. Beyond that it does nothing.

The portal has eliminated the PTC (permission to contact) hurdle that players used to have to deal with. Prior to the transfer portal, if a player wanted to transfer from one FBS school to another, he had to get permission from his current school’s coaches. The coaches could also decide who received a PTC letter for the transferring player. Essentially if coaches didn’t want a certain school to contact you, they weren’t allowed to. They would probably never even know you were interested in transferring. During the final year prior to the portal, 4% of FBS athletes transferred. The following year the number jumped to over 10%. The portal made it easier for kids to transfer without fear that a vindictive coach would do his best to sabotage any transfer.

 

[1mg of Epi]

You must have been born yesterday. Transfers aren’t some mew thing. They rename it the portal and some of you act like it’s a fancy new thing. Bryant McKinnie, Jeremy Shockey and Jerome McDougle came from Juco. Troy Aikman was a transfer. The portal was created to regular\te the wild west, not increase it. Folks just pay more attention now.

The idea that your 25 initial counters are more precious than ever today isn’t the case. We have to make a roster from all sources, same as ever. Our problems havent changed much in ages. Evaluate poor;y and it won’t matter. Recruit lazy and it won’t matter. We’ve had ear;y departures for ages, too. When kids realize the U doesn’t care about winning, why should they stick around and risk their career?

It’s the waiver of the sit a year rule that makes it substantially different then before.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Lmao @ win now and fill roster spots with portal guys

I can’t believe a scholar like you thinks fortify means the same as fill.

 

[GojiraCane]

U r STILL missing the point, and I wouldn’t expect u too, since how the portal has been used.

Let’s agree to disagree, but I will ask this as I’m interested in your opinion:

Dec 2018: Manny Diaz takes the job with an unknown in J Williams at QB and an immature NKosi Perry in the mix. He also has 7 scholarships left to offer after Early NSD. Do you go after high school talent or hit the transfer portal?

Dec 2019: The largest weakness by far is OL, and its ground the entire offense to a hault. Kicker is right behind. Do you bring in Williams to help shore up the OL, or ride with the existing group and hope Justice and S&C is enough? As for QB, it’s a miss because of J Williams behavior. You’ve got Tyler Van Dyke on the roster...do you ride with the freshman in Year 2 with a suspect line (or Kosi), or do you hit the portal?

I get that some of the portal signings are to mitigate recruiting failures of Manny. Some of them aren’t. The overall question is, is it better for Miami to go after players with 1-3 years eligibility, or sign high school players to fill those slots? Was Miami better served by signing Stevenson with that final scholarship as opposed to a 3 star CB in Feb?

 

[poncho0091]

I am surprised that it appears the majority of the bag money is upfront. It should be structured like an NFL contract:

1) Signing Bonus immediately upon LOI
2) Year 1 payment
3) Year 2 payment
4) Year 3 payment
5) Year 4 payment
6) Year 4 bonus for turning down NFL

Years 1-4 money payouts gradually escalate in value. Year 3-4 would be by a large margin the highest.

No way to reinforce it, and the desire for money isn't as great once they get that first bag, so the motivation to play somewhere you want to be is greater.

 

[poncho0091]

The thing for me is people saying we are using it to make up for poor recruiting and depth, but my thought is we use the portal to hopefully get us to the point where the holes are minimum. This all assuming that enough of the portal transfers work out. Under the current conditions of how much easier it's been to transfer, this is where the portal hopefully helps us.

We should not be reliant on the portal long term, but it seems like it should be helpful for us to try and make up the gap. The gap between us and the top tier schools existed long before Manny, and doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon.

 

[Ethnicsands]

The portal has eliminated the PTC (permission to contact) hurdle that players used to have to deal with. Prior to the transfer portal, if a player wanted to transfer from one FBS school to another, he had to get permission from his current school’s coaches. The coaches could also decide who received a PTC letter for the transferring player. Essentially if coaches didn’t want a certain school to contact you, they weren’t allowed to. They would probably never even know you were interested in transferring. During the final year prior to the portal, 4% of FBS athletes transferred. The following year the number jumped to over 10%. The portal made it easier for kids to transfer without fear that a vindictive coach would do his best to sabotage any transfer.

That’s true but the controlling limit is still roster space. It caused a bump but it will normalize.

 

[Ethnicsands]

It’s the waiver of the sit a year rule that makes it substantially different then before.

but that isn’t a portal rule, i don’t think. that’s a temporary thing for covid. maybe i’m confused but don’t think they took away the sit rule, did they?

 

[Rellyrell]

Let’s agree to disagree, but I will ask this as I’m interested in your opinion:

Dec 2018: Manny Diaz takes the job with an unknown in J Williams at QB and an immature NKosi Perry in the mix. He also has 7 scholarships left to offer after Early NSD. Do you go after high school talent or hit the transfer portal?

Dec 2019: The largest weakness by far is OL, and its ground the entire offense to a hault. Kicker is right behind. Do you bring in Williams to help shore up the OL, or ride with the existing group and hope Justice and S&C is enough? As for QB, it’s a miss because of J Williams behavior. You’ve got Tyler Van Dyke on the roster...do you ride with the freshman in Year 2 with a suspect line (or Kosi), or do you hit the portal?

I get that some of the portal signings are to mitigate recruiting failures of Manny. Some of them aren’t. The overall question is, is it better for Miami to go after players with 1-3 years eligibility, or sign high school players to fill those slots? Was Miami better served by signing Stevenson with that final scholarship as opposed to a 3 star CB in Feb?

U’re arguing something I’m not, and that’s why u don’t get what I’m saying.

So let me just address what u initially u said; u go to the portal to win “now.”

When have we “won now” w/ this method?

So let me take you down memory lane during the Richt/Diaz era, shall I?

2016 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 51 were Miami recruits (excluding Vogel & Colbert...son)
Results? 9-4 & our 1st bowl game victory in over a decade

2017 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 50 were Miami recruits (excluding Dee Delaney, Gerald Willis [who didn’t play] & George Brown Jr [who didn’t play])
Results? 10-3 & our first Coastal crown, and first NY6 bowl appearance in 10+ yrs

2018 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 49 were Miami recruits (excluding Gerald Willis, George Brown Jr [Didn’t Play], Venzell Boulware & Tito Odenigo)
Results? 7-6 and embarrassing bowl loss

2019 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 46 were Miami recruits (excluding Tate Martell, Bubba Bolden, Jaelen Phillips [Didn’t Play], Chigozie Nnoruka, Trevon Hill, Thomas Kennedy, KJ Osborne....*not including Asa Martin or Jeff Thomas on this list)
Results? 6-7 including losing to FIU (1st P5 team in history & getting shut out in a bowl game by a G5 team)

2020 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 46 were Miami recruits (excluding Jaelen Phillips, Jarrid Williams, Tate Martell, D’Eriq King, Issiah Walker, Quincy Rochè, and Jose Borregales)
Results? 8-3 including having a historic meltdown against UNC & end the season 0-2

So what is this win “now” theory?

Do u know why we had better success w/ less transfers? It’s chemistry & cohesion. U name any top 10 team or any top 25 team (P5 or G5) outside of Marshall that have more transfers than us? Name one CFP contender that have more transfers than us? Here’s the thing; u won’t find it, b/c championship caliber teams don’t rely upon the portal. They strategically use it to fill “a” hole. They have “a” hole b/c they develop their own & they may have “a” hole from a crucial transfer. They don’t use the portal as a tactic to build b/c they can’t develop their own.

Notice how I continue to say “develop their own.” That’s the point U, along any other portal supporter can’t seem to comprehend. We are using the portal b/c we have no choice, DESPITE recruiting as a top 15 program in the NATION. That’s thee problem. I’m not saying the portal is wrong; I’m saying the comfortability & reliance upon it is wrong & we will never become a championship caliber team if we continue to reply upon this tactic.

 

[poncho0091]

but that isn’t a portal rule, i don’t think. that’s a temporary thing for covid. maybe i’m confused but don’t think they took away the sit rule, did they?

The sit rule is not gone, but they have been much more lenient on waivers and coaches cannot control where kids go anymore.

 

[Ethnicsands]

The sit rule is not gone, but they have been much more lenient on waivers and coaches cannot control where kids go anymore.

the lack of control is a positive, imo.

 

[poncho0091]

U’re arguing something I’m not, and that’s why u don’t get what I’m saying.

So let me just address what u initially u said; u go to the portal to win “now.”

When have we “won now” w/ this method?

So let me take you down memory lane during the Richt/Diaz era, shall I?

2016 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 51 were Miami recruits (excluding Vogel & Colbert...son)
Results? 9-4 & our 1st bowl game victory in over a decade

2017 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 50 were Miami recruits (excluding Dee Delaney, Gerald Willis [who didn’t play] & George Brown Jr [who didn’t play])
Results? 10-3 & our first Coastal crown, and first NY6 bowl appearance in 10+ yrs

2018 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 49 were Miami recruits (excluding Gerald Willis, George Brown Jr [Didn’t Play], Venzell Boulware & Tito Odenigo)
Results? 7-6 and embarrassing bowl loss

2019 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 46 were Miami recruits (excluding Tate Martell, Bubba Bolden, Jaelen Phillips [Didn’t Play], Chigozie Nnoruka, Trevon Hill, Thomas Kennedy, KJ Osborne....*not including Asa Martin or Jeff Thomas on this list)
Results? 6-7 including losing to FIU (1st P5 team in history & getting shut out in a bowl game by a G5 team)

2020 Roster: Out of the 53 active players on the roster, 46 were Miami recruits (excluding Jaelen Phillips, Jarrid Williams, Tate Martell, D’Eriq King, Issiah Walker, Quincy Rochè, and Jose Borregales)
Results? 8-3 including having a historic meltdown against UNC & end the season 0-2

So what is this win “now” theory?

Do u know why we had better success w/ less transfers? It’s chemistry & cohesion. U name any top 10 team or any top 25 team (P5 or G5) outside of Marshall that have more transfers than us? Name one CFP contender that have more transfers than us? Here’s the thing; u won’t find it, b/c championship caliber teams don’t rely upon the portal. They strategically use it to fill “a” hole. They have “a” hole b/c they develop their own & they may have “a” hole from a crucial transfer. They don’t use the portal as a tactic to build b/c they can’t develop their own.

Notice how I continue to say “develop their own.” That’s the point U, along any other portal supporter can’t seem to comprehend. We are using the portal b/c we have no choice, DESPITE recruiting as a top 15 program in the NATION. That’s thee problem. I’m not saying the portal is wrong; I’m saying the comfortability & reliance upon it is wrong & we will never become a championship caliber team if we continue to reply upon this tactic.

I don't think we should be reliant on it. I'm personally just hoping we can close the gap using it. An injection if you want to call it that to push us up and get to that point, or somewhere closer to it. We won't be able to compete until we recruit and develop regularly like the top tier schools, but that was the point of my OP was if the portal helps us do that, considering some of the usual complaints over the years of bags and kids leaving.

 

[Rellyrell]

I don't think we should be reliant on it. I'm personally just hoping we can close the gap using it. An injection if you want to call it that to push us up and get to that point, or somewhere closer to it. We won't be able to compete until we recruit and develop regularly like the top tier schools, but that was the point of my OP was if the portal helps us do that, considering some of the usual complaints over the years of bags and kids leaving.

This I agree w/ but we can only do that by

1. Developing our own players
2. Continue to keep guys from making foolish mistakes leaving early prematurely
3. Picking portal guys who will be here for 2-3 yrs vs. being a 1 yr carousel.

Then the portal will become a strategy vs. a tactic.

 

[canesdogo]

The Tyrique news had me thinking. This may have been discussed already, but I've been telling friends for awhile why the portal is great for us.

1. Constantly losing local players due to "bags"
2. Kids going to schools in places we all know they would never go to without real incentive
3. We've done well in the portal
4. Kids spurning us and then trying to return later (i.e. Walker, Tyrique)

At the end of the day, these kids are going to leave for their bags elsewhere, but once they've got the bag, there's nothing to stop them from returning. Obviously it's not a ton of players doing it, but there's definitely a positive to it all.

Thoughts?

The. Question is how much do the bags buy.?....Sign an LOI for 1 payment, or do they have an on going plan connection.? and then what?..just askin.
Seems playing time is a key factor too.

 

[Rellyrell]

It’s not about relying on it, It’s about understanding it’s importance in today’s game and maximizing it’s possibilities.

Right now no one is doing it better than we are. That doesn’t make us Marshall it makes us innovative and smart

Lol; no it doesn’t, friend. Lol

It makes us reliant b/c we can’t do chit w/ our own. U won’t find any top caliber team “being innovative” w/ The Portal like us.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Lol; no it doesn’t, friend. Lol

It makes us reliant b/c we can’t do chit w/ our own. U won’t find any top caliber team “being innovative” w/ The Portal like us.

Top 3-5 teams have had coaching and recruiting continuity on both sides of the ball and have still had to do it at QB and RB. **** Georgia even took our scraps wih Cager.

The rest would love to be doing what we have.

 

[SFbayCane]

The bag game will evolve from a large, one time payment into a monthly/yearly vig. No sense paying for a kid who doesnt stay in the program.

And make no mistake, the bag game is still in play for portal transfers.

 

[Rellyrell]

Top 3-5 teams have had coaching and recruiting continuity on both sides of the ball. The rest would love to be doing what we have.

Bro; no they don’t. U know I gots mad love & respect for u, but no team wants to rely upon the portal or transfers. Most top teams want to rely upon building their rosters organically via great scouting, and development. No top tier program want to flood their program w/ guys they didn’t evaluate or sign. Here & there? Sure...but if a team has to rely upon the portal, structurally, something is wrong.

P.S Bama definitely don’t have consistency w/ their staff. They probably have thee most turnover of any coaching staff in America since 2008.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Bro; no they don’t. U know I gots mad love & respect for u, but no team wants to rely upon the portal or transfers. Most top teams want to rely upon building their rosters organically via great scouting, and development. No top tier program want to flood their program w/ guys they didn’t evaluate or sign. Here & there? Sure...but if a team has to rely upon the portal, structurally, something is wrong.

P.S Bama definitely don’t have consistency w/ their staff. They probably have thee most turnover of any coaching staff in America since 2008.

You know feeling is mutual. But I never said or implied flood our roster. I said fortify our weak areas. No one will convince me that new reality shouldnt be exploited and it's positives be maximized.

 

[Rellyrell]

You know feeling is mutual. But I never said or implied flood our roster. I said fortify our weak areas. No one will convince me that new reality shouldnt be exploited and it's positives be maximized.

Well, I think we need to get to a point where we fish the portal due to “a” weak area vs. weak areas.