Portal and bags

[Rellyrell]

Ohio State’s starting running back and quarterback were both portal guys..

Oklahoma’s QBs were too. Same with UGA.

As I posted; top teams “cherry pick” every blue moon for a starter. I posted in another thread the breakdown of the difference between us & the rest of the nation. By far we “rely” upon the portal to the point, our HC was not worried about our lack of CB recruiting as he openly admitted he’s sure they’ll be able to go to the portal.

 

[Rellyrell]

Coker had septtember bowl games. Manny has his spring signing period.

FR FR lol’d

 

[Ethnicsands]

It’s not about relying on it, It’s about understanding it’s importance in today’s game and maximizing it’s possibilities.

Right now no one is doing it better than we are. That doesn’t make us Marshall it makes us innovative and smart

The ‘importance’ of the portal to any team is a direct function of its roster holes. Properly managed rosters shouldn’t leave much room for portal kids. If this staff does its job right, there shouldn’t be room or need for more than 1 IC portal transfer a year. Maybe you also take a juco kid (all for that) or a 5th year kid who normally wouldn’t cost you am IC (also all for that if we have room on roster). But we should be adding 23 frosh ayear, or e’re just digging roster landmines for the future.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Ohio State’s starting running back and quarterback were both portal guys..

Oklahoma’s QBs were too. Same with UGA.

Regardless we are not even in the same stratosphere as far as depth and continuity as those schools. If we want to win now we need to fortify this roster with portal guys until we reach that level

Our issue is overall roster. Nothing wrong with an upgrade at QB. Nothing wrong with any method of improving, but there are messages if you're paying attention.

 

[SayWhat]

Our issue is overall roster. Nothing wrong with an upgrade at QB. Nothing wrong with any method of improving, but there are messages if you're paying attention.

The other message players may be seeing, in particular recruits, is they don't recruit well. That may or may not be true, it could be development or a host of other factors. But when is it going to be the time of those who picked you from day one? They may see it as them never getting the chance the way we keep brining in mercs from th portal. While that should say, step your game up so you do, not everyone is like that.

I always say, improve your team of you can. It just may come with some unforseen circumstances.

 

[canecrazy23]

The Tyrique news had me thinking. This may have been discussed already, but I've been telling friends for awhile why the portal is great for us.

1. Constantly losing local players due to "bags"
2. Kids going to schools in places we all know they would never go to without real incentive
3. We've done well in the portal
4. Kids spurning us and then trying to return later (i.e. Walker, Tyrique)

At the end of the day, these kids are going to leave for their bags elsewhere, but once they've got the bag, there's nothing to stop them from returning. Obviously it's not a ton of players doing it, but there's definitely a positive to it all.

Thoughts?

I'm hoping one day these kids all wake up and say "if we all stay home no one's beating us". Like Duh!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GojiraCane]

Agreed once the NCAA clamps down on amateur free agency, and forces these kids to sit out a year it might slow the tide. But I think it might as well CJ age the bag game so that players will only get a % of it upfront then perhaps annual “bonuses”?

I am surprised that it appears the majority of the bag money is upfront. It should be structured like an NFL contract:

1) Signing Bonus immediately upon LOI
2) Year 1 payment
3) Year 2 payment
4) Year 3 payment
5) Year 4 payment
6) Year 4 bonus for turning down NFL

Years 1-4 money payouts gradually escalate in value. Year 3-4 would be by a large margin the highest.

 

[GojiraCane]

As I posted; top teams “cherry pick” every blue moon for a starter. I posted in another thread the breakdown of the difference between us & the rest of the nation. By far we “rely” upon the portal to the point, our HC was not worried about our lack of CB recruiting as he openly admitted he’s sure they’ll be able to go to the portal.

I’ve been okay with our portal moves so far. Many of them were to avoid us having to rely on true freshmen, instead improving our chances at winning, building momentum, and improving recruiting.

Take the Williams signing - we took a position of absolute weakness and at least made it salvageable. It would have been better regardless in 2020, but he allowed us to redshirt freshmen last season.

Or the Rambo signing: Harley was great, but after him you are relying on two of the four 2020 signees who barely saw the field this year to supersede Pope and Wiggins. Or the raft of 2021 freshmen. Or JP.

If Rambo does win a starting spot, we can hope that the cream rises to the top with the other nine unproven receivers. The true freshmen can redshirt or at least be used sparingly.

With Stevensen, when you lack numbers there’s no argument in using the portal. The trajectory of our 2006 season might have been entirely different if Coker could have brought in two portal wide receivers. WR then had a similar number problem as CB does today.

 

[Rellyrell]

I’ve been okay with our portal moves so far. Many of them were to avoid us having to rely on true freshmen, instead improving our chances at winning, building momentum, and improving recruiting.

Take the Williams signing - we took a position of absolute weakness and at least made it salvageable. It would have been better regardless in 2020, but he allowed us to redshirt freshmen last season.

Or the Rambo signing: Harley was great, but after him you are relying on two of the four 2020 signees who barely saw the field this year to supersede Pope and Wiggins. Or the raft of 2021 freshmen. Or JP.

If Rambo does win a starting spot, we can hope that the cream rises to the top with the other nine unproven receivers. The true freshmen can redshirt or at least be used sparingly.

With Stevensen, when you lack numbers there’s no argument in using the portal. The trajectory of our 2006 season might have been entirely different if Coker could have brought in two portal wide receivers. WR then had a similar number problem as CB does today.

The first statement to begin ur argument is not true:

1. We went to the Portal for a QB, b/c our 4 star RS Sophomore QB (J Williams), our 4 star transfer RS Jr QB (Tate Martell), and our 4 star RS Jr QB (N’Kosi Perry) all sucked.

2. We have 3,000 WRs in our WR room, led by 4 star 5th-yr Sr Mike Harley, 4 star (or 5 star per Rivals) Sr Mark Pope, Sr Dee Wiggins, and then we’ll have 4 star Jr Jeremiah Payton, along w/ 4 star Sophomore Michael Redding, the “Diamond In The Rough” 3 star Sophomore Daz Worsham

3. We picked up Stevenson (u know, the same guy that spurned us), b/c we had no choice. Our CB recruiting sucked


So let me simplify things;

We go to the portal b/c we have no choice, be it due to our upper classmen not being up to par (playing below their rankings or not being developed) or our recruiting for depth has been abysmal.

We can try to spin it, flip, excuse it...whatever makes us (ya’ll) feel good about how we’re moving. U can say Manny is a master at the portal, while I will counter & say Manny is a master handyman & not a plumber. The difference? A Handyman will temporarily fix a matter while a plumber is certified to fix the matter.

The fact our upperclassmen continue, for the last 5 yrs, lag behind the rest of America...the fact that our Freshman continues to be handled w/ kid mittens....the fact that our recruiting & lack of development continues to plague us is a sign of lack of leadership. But, to mitigate that, to absolve from this point, Manny has used to portal to mask over such deficiencies. The problem is, it’s a mask; a mask in which fans continue to think is not a problem.

When u have to rely upon transfers, that’s a problem. Again, cherry picking every blue moon is one thing, but my friend, the portal has been around since ‘19 (in its current form), and we have 17 players from it. Lol. BY FAR the worldwide leader, and now, it’s comfortable.

Cant recruit, can’t develop? Cool. Portal. That’s not a good look.

 

[PredaCane]

You must have been born yesterday. Transfers aren’t some mew thing. They rename it the portal and some of you act like it’s a fancy new thing. Bryant McKinnie, Jeremy Shockey and Jerome McDougle came from Juco. Troy Aikman was a transfer. The portal was created to regular\te the wild west, not increase it. Folks just pay more attention now.

The idea that your 25 initial counters are more precious than ever today isn’t the case. We have to make a roster from all sources, same as ever. Our problems havent changed much in ages. Evaluate poor;y and it won’t matter. Recruit lazy and it won’t matter. We’ve had ear;y departures for ages, too. When kids realize the U doesn’t care about winning, why should they stick around and risk their career?

Juco don't count.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Juco don't count.

Of course they count. The point of the dodcussion is get talent that fits our needs, roster and culture, however we can.

transfers aren’t new, none of this is new.

i pointed out jucos in part because in our own somewhat recent history, several of our best players were jucos - i.e., kids we got from somewhere other than high school.

as long as the 85 man roster limit and 25 initial counter limit remain applicable, the math for all these sources of kids won’t change.

 

[Trav]

The Tyrique news had me thinking. This may have been discussed already, but I've been telling friends for awhile why the portal is great for us.

1. Constantly losing local players due to "bags"
2. Kids going to schools in places we all know they would never go to without real incentive
3. We've done well in the portal
4. Kids spurning us and then trying to return later (i.e. Walker, Tyrique)

At the end of the day, these kids are going to leave for their bags elsewhere, but once they've got the bag, there's nothing to stop them from returning. Obviously it's not a ton of players doing it, but there's definitely a positive to it all.

Thoughts?

It's not that simple, and with many kids bags aren't a one-time transaction. It should also be noted that some kids never seek a handout.

 

[miamimike305]

Ohio State’s starting running back and quarterback were both portal guys..

Oklahoma’s QBs were too. Same with UGA.

Regardless we are not even in the same stratosphere as far as depth and continuity as those schools. If we want to win now we need to fortify this roster with portal guys until we reach that level

Lmao @ win now and fill roster spots with portal guys.

 

[rok]

It's just not that hard to know what to do as a program.

It's not easy to get it right, but the concepts and processes seem pretty straight forward.

Evals, recruiting, roster management, S&C, development, these are very process and data driven activities. Game planning, too.

 

[GojiraCane]

The first statement to begin ur argument is not true:

1. We went to the Portal for a QB, b/c our 4 star RS Sophomore QB (J Williams), our 4 star transfer RS Jr QB (Tate Martell), and our 4 star RS Jr QB (N’Kosi Perry) all sucked.

2. We have 3,000 WRs in our WR room, led by 4 star 5th-yr Sr Mike Harley, 4 star (or 5 star per Rivals) Sr Mark Pope, Sr Dee Wiggins, and then we’ll have 4 star Jr Jeremiah Payton, along w/ 4 star Sophomore Michael Redding, the “Diamond In The Rough” 3 star Sophomore Daz Worsham

3. We picked up Stevenson (u know, the same guy that spurned us), b/c we had no choice. Our CB recruiting sucked


So let me simplify things;

We go to the portal b/c we have no choice, be it due to our upper classmen not being up to par (playing below their rankings or not being developed) or our recruiting for depth has been abysmal.

We can try to spin it, flip, excuse it...whatever makes us (ya’ll) feel good about how we’re moving. U can say Manny is a master at the portal, while I will counter & say Manny is a master handyman & not a plumber. The difference? A Handyman will temporarily fix a matter while a plumber is certified to fix the matter.

The fact our upperclassmen continue, for the last 5 yrs, lag behind the rest of America...the fact that our Freshman continues to be handled w/ kid mittens....the fact that our recruiting & lack of development continues to plague us is a sign of lack of leadership. But, to mitigate that, to absolve from this point, Manny has used to portal to mask over such deficiencies. The problem is, it’s a mask; a mask in which fans continue to think is not a problem.

When u have to rely upon transfers, that’s a problem. Again, cherry picking every blue moon is one thing, but my friend, the portal has been around since ‘19 (in its current form), and we have 17 players from it. Lol. BY FAR the worldwide leader, and now, it’s comfortable.

Cant recruit, can’t develop? Cool. Portal. That’s not a good look.

I'm not talking about 2019. The transfer portal signing of 2019 made absolute sense at the time, and I find it hard to believe that anyone would rather have signed a collection of 2 and 3 star kids with our remaining scholarship allotment that year versus filling that class out with kids who had in many cases two or more years of eligibility left. The entire point is to try to win games now, build momentum, and recruit better the following year. Our 2019 class had collapsed due to the 2018 finish. Our biggest issues at the time were on offense. CMD did not recruit offense in the 2016, 2017, and 2018 cycles. So he got a RB (Martin - did not work out), highly regarded QB (Martell - still pending, but no impact to date), and a good WR Osborne (stabilizing influence at WR). And we got a veteran offensive lineman who did not work out. Our defensive signings were better. Phillips and Bolden paid dividends, and Bolden will be here next year. On the defensive side, your point has validity.

After 2019 our biggest weakness was offensive line, quarterback, and kicker. So Manny signed a top portal QB (King-success), a top OL (Williams-worked out so far), a top freshman OL prospect (Walker-redshirted), and a kicker (Borregales-fantastic success). Aside from the kicker, yes - we could have rolled with the existing talent. But this was a better play in shoring up the offense and avoiding another 6 win season. The latter would have led to another recruiting collapse (ala FSU) and perpetuated the need for the portal. And I won't begrudge Manny for signing Roche - the original planned pairing of him and Rousseau would have been monstrous.

After 2020 our biggest weakness has been wide receiver and cornerback (due to sheer numbers). Yes, we have 14 wide receivers on the roster presently but a lack of practice last year severely hampered the development of the four WRs that we brought in. Would I have liked to see them play more - YES! But Pope and Wiggins had the experience. Barring improvement by them, two of three starting positions are definitely up for grabs with Harley holding down one. Rambo adds some maturity and potential immediate upside to the #2 spot. Otherwise we're hoping that two of the seven young wide receivers now on our roster can develop in the spring and summer amidst an ongoing pandemic and be ready to supercede Wiggins and Pope. You can fault Manny for needing to go after Johnson, and certainly from a recruiting perspective the lack of CBs falls upon him.

 

[DTP]

Transfers are nothing new but the portal makes it a lot easier to get your name out to every school who might have an interest. There’s a reason Nick Saban hates it. Making it easier for kids to change schools negatively affects the schools who load up on blue chips. It’s not just about about having the best players on your roster for these guys, it’s about making sure the competition doesn’t get anybody either. In the old days before scholarship limits, Bear Bryant would offer players he didn’t even want just to keep them away from Auburn.

 

[GojiraCane]

Transfers are nothing new but the portal makes it a lot easier to get your name out to every school who might have an interest. There’s a reason Nick Saban hates it. Making it easier for kids to change schools negatively affects the schools who load up on blue chips. It’s not just about about having the best players on your roster for these guys, it’s about making sure the competition doesn’t get anybody either. In the old days before scholarship limits, Bear Bryant would offer players he didn’t even want just to keep them away from Auburn.

Why doesn't Alabama just adjust their bag game? It's easy to imagine an enhanced recruiting protocol that is structured as such:

Year 1: Signing Bonus, annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (15% of overall four year benefit)
Year 2: annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (20% of overall four year benefit)
Year 3: annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (30% of overall four year benefit), Non-Portal Bonus
Year 4: annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (35% of overall four year benefit), Non-Portal Bonus, Non-early declare for NFL bonus

It's not like anyone is paying any attention to them.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Transfers are nothing new but the portal makes it a lot easier to get your name out to every school who might have an interest. There’s a reason Nick Saban hates it. Making it easier for kids to change schools negatively affects the schools who load up on blue chips. It’s not just about about having the best players on your roster for these guys, it’s about making sure the competition doesn’t get anybody either. In the old days before scholarship limits, Bear Bryant would offer players he didn’t even want just to keep them away from Auburn.

Again, if you don’t change the 85 roster limit or 25 initial counter limit, the portal is irrelevant in the big picture. And it doesn’t help kids advertise - that’s wrong. In the era of social media every kid with a twitter account can tell the world he’s available. What the portal was intended for was to limit schools from poaching kids before theyd decided to transfer. It cleared it all up - no contact until a kid is in the portal. Beyond that it does nothing.

 

[DTP]

Why doesn't Alabama just adjust their bag game? It's easy to imagine an enhanced recruiting protocol that is structured as such:

Year 1: Signing Bonus, annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (15% of overall four year benefit)
Year 2: annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (20% of overall four year benefit)
Year 3: annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (30% of overall four year benefit), Non-Portal Bonus
Year 4: annual payment of overall promised regular signing benefit (35% of overall four year benefit), Non-Portal Bonus, Non-early declare for NFL bonus

It's not like anyone is paying any attention to them.

No idea. Probably because someone else will pay the full amount up front.

 

[Rellyrell]

I'm not talking about 2019. The transfer portal signing of 2019 made absolute sense at the time, and I find it hard to believe that anyone would rather have signed a collection of 2 and 3 star kids with our remaining scholarship allotment that year versus filling that class out with kids who had in many cases two or more years of eligibility left. The entire point is to try to win games now, build momentum, and recruit better the following year. Our 2019 class had collapsed due to the 2018 finish. Our biggest issues at the time were on offense. CMD did not recruit offense in the 2016, 2017, and 2018 cycles. So he got a RB (Martin - did not work out), highly regarded QB (Martell - still pending, but no impact to date), and a good WR Osborne (stabilizing influence at WR). And we got a veteran offensive lineman who did not work out. Our defensive signings were better. Phillips and Bolden paid dividends, and Bolden will be here next year. On the defensive side, your point has validity.

After 2019 our biggest weakness was offensive line, quarterback, and kicker. So Manny signed a top portal QB (King-success), a top OL (Williams-worked out so far), a top freshman OL prospect (Walker-redshirted), and a kicker (Borregales-fantastic success). Aside from the kicker, yes - we could have rolled with the existing talent. But this was a better play in shoring up the offense and avoiding another 6 win season. The latter would have led to another recruiting collapse (ala FSU) and perpetuated the need for the portal. And I won't begrudge Manny for signing Roche - the original planned pairing of him and Rousseau would have been monstrous.

After 2020 our biggest weakness has been wide receiver and cornerback (due to sheer numbers). Yes, we have 14 wide receivers on the roster presently but a lack of practice last year severely hampered the development of the four WRs that we brought in. Would I have liked to see them play more - YES! But Pope and Wiggins had the experience. Barring improvement by them, two of three starting positions are definitely up for grabs with Harley holding down one. Rambo adds some maturity and potential immediate upside to the #2 spot. Otherwise we're hoping that two of the seven young wide receivers now on our roster can develop in the spring and summer amidst an ongoing pandemic and be ready to supercede Wiggins and Pope. You can fault Manny for needing to go after Johnson, and certainly from a recruiting perspective the lack of CBs falls upon him.

U r STILL missing the point, and I wouldn’t expect u too, since how the portal has been used.