PODCAST: D$ and Peter vent on MTSU loss and Frankie Tinilau joins the show

[LuCane]

My guess is he thought TVD would be better. I did, too, even while watching the offense struggle around him during camp. His yips are surprising.

As for hiring Gattis in the first place, Mario strikes me as a guy who likes shiny things. I’ve never seen a coach speak so openly about recruiting rankings. Most coaches fall over themselves to say they don’t look at stars. Mario brags about star rankings in an unusual way. The OCs we were linked to in the offseason all had pretty different styles so I don’t think it’s necessarily about type. He wanted someone with pedigree like a Broyles Award.

This is all speculation but it’s the impression I get.

I think this scares me more than it alleviates concerns, my brotha.

 

[uprising]

@DMoney

You had some similar comments about TVD as Colin Cowherd just did about Caleb Williams (body language, when things get hard, etc.), but Cowherd went three steps further about how some of today's players are not used to dealing with adversity and overcoming adversity is something lost on some of today's players.

I would say there are a LOT of players like that on our team. Just lack the dawg in'em. I think you and I would agree, there are very few dawgs on our team. You mentioned two of the very few.

Also, I would agree...MTSU loss was worse than FIU...mostly in part that the upperclassmen on this team experienced the loss to FIU. ...and LaTech. How does a group of upperclassmen accept taking so many G5 embarrassing Ls in their career? This group of seniors will have 3 losses to the G5 under their belt. How many other real P5 programs (not talking about Vandy or Arizona or whatever) have taken that many Ls to G5 schools over the life of their career (say, 4 year span?).

I'm curious how close this group is to the top of that list.

**** that's sad af

 

[JASONCOEM]

if he becomes a client of @Peter Ariz then you know he's destined to be an UDFA.

bro, we couldn't score a td vs atm. we lost to m tenn fing state. gattis offense is a fraud. 45 given up against MTS is got dam treason. come on man.

we should be 4-0 right not. the game against s miss should have shook the coaches.

we need the air raid and open the m****er up on offense.

bro, we couldn't score a td vs atm. we lost to m tenn fing state. gattis offense is a fraud. 45 given up against MTS is got dam treason. come on man.

we should be 4-0 right not. the game against s miss should have shook the coaches.

we need the air raid and open the m****er up on offense.

I guess your agreeing with me!! The whole point of my quote was we should’ve stuck with the same offense that was successful. I don’t care if TVD can’t execute any other offense except the spread/air raid we were running with lashlee.. Al though we need to recruit to win, we need to more so win to recruit. Beat the teams your supposed to, compete with the Texas a&ms, Clemsons and tougher ACC teams. Then more elite players will come to close the gap. That simple! Great coaches over achieve!!! NOT UNDER ACHIEVE!! Hence struggling with southern miss, having a&m pretty much giving us an easy chance to win with depleted secondary and weak offense, and then of course the programs worst loss in program history MTS..

 

[caneworld]

He did…it just got wetView attachment 209868

Yep, after the tremendous success of Rainman 1 , we hired Rainman 2

 

[Agecane]

Point of fact:

The Bill O'Brien Alabama offense is basically a pumped up version of the Chan Gailey system, with a few modifications for the college game. It takes advantage of wider hashes and downfield blocking and RPO actions that Chan used when he went back and forth between college and the NFL. He did use some of the josh mcdaniels concepts when he was with the texans, which can be a bit complicated, but you don't see that full on in the alabama offense he's been running the past couple of years. It's basically Chan, the modified and updated college version.

It's actually no more complicated than the Gattis offense, and in some aspects, even less so. it only looks that way.

Uhh, wasn't Patrick Nix as Chan Gailey disciple?

 

[JOE'CANE]

My guess is he thought TVD would be better. I did, too, even while watching the offense struggle around him during camp. His yips are surprising.

As for hiring Gattis in the first place, Mario strikes me as a guy who likes shiny things. I’ve never seen a coach speak so openly about recruiting rankings. Most coaches fall over themselves to say they don’t look at stars. Mario brags about star rankings in an unusual way. The OCs we were linked to in the offseason all had pretty different styles so I don’t think it’s necessarily about type. He wanted someone with pedigree like a Broyles Award.

This is all speculation but it’s the impression I get.

He does always say "it has to look a certain way".

Which I understand, in the trenches, but this prehistoric **** offense isn't gonna cut it. Even with much better personnel look what happened to Michigan against UGA.

 

[88]

Did Mario watch this while he took 6 months vetting OC candidates?

 

[Dwinstitles]

None of that was my point. My point was that we won’t be finding any of that out because that talent that those guys got will not be coming here. Unlike those places wins do matter in recruiting here. That will be seen shortly when we get a huge string of decommits after we lose a bunch more games. If we don’t by some miracle then I completely agree. Talent does make coaches look good. However that wasn’t my argument.

We going to find out if Mario is a true closer cause a closer closes. We will see if that record hurts cause we will lose. I think the whole Chris Johnson shot is cap.....when kids say that I think they straight up bullshyttin. Like just say u were waiting for a better offer. Jordan Battle pulled that same **** had us 2nd then decommited and chose his 3rd option. I think kids do that so less backlash in sfla.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Those guys all have elite elite scheme/coaching on one or both sides of the ball to go with it.

There's more than one reason why those three are WAY in front of the pack.

If one of those three are coached mediocrely theyre going to get beat by one of the other 3-5 teams at that talent level.

They do but according to people here Kirby was cheeks and his offense was cheeks. I said that talent will win eventually. And rightfully so they winning

 

[Cane6]

Gotta push back on this quote and your other quote that "no one saw this coming." Perhaps no one saw exactly this result. Gattis' resume was there with the big award everyone referenced. On the outside, it looked like we grabbed "a playoff OC who'd just won the Broyles." It was the consistent argument in support.

There were tons of people - here and on twitter arguing with Gattis himself, lol - who were wondering/hoping/praying his previous approach was really just a product of "being limited by a crap QB." But, the offseason was full of concern and skepticism about what we'd look like and how TVD would look vs how he looked during his 300-yard run last season.

Personally, it was my #1 question in August: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/my-biggest-questions-going-into-fall-camp.178845/

But, I can link/screenshot some even earlier comments/questions about how it'd look and how it better be something more/different than what we'd seen at UMich. Here's one:

I'm definitely not the only one. FAR from it. I was skeptical, cautious, and willing to wait and see if he'd come in with something more aligned to TVD's strengths and weaknesses (they're still there, maybe worse). He did not. I think part of TVD's yips are precisely because of what he's being asked to do within the scheme and playcalling. That's a rough start to your coordinator function.

There were others who had even stronger stances - saying he'd outright suck. I presume based on what he had shown and they figured it'd be the same here. I didn't go that far because there's always a chance someone adjusts. Instead, SO FAR, he's only validated concerns. If he changes now - and he already went to hurry up more last game - it feels more like an admission of guilt than the genuine understanding of what we needed most.

Their huge underutilization of the screen game is also head scratching, along with RPO which we are starting to see tick up.

Tempo and urgency are lacking

I’m hoping Mario Zo, etc are making material adjustments going forward

 

[Dwinstitles]

We don't need a talent infusion to beat Middle Tennessee.

That loss was all on coaching. Sh't scheme, sh't preparation, no motivation, no adjustments. Just all around out-coached.

I do sort of agree.....but then I see I've and Flagg getting outrun badly and I'm like wtf do the coaches do about that. So Steele forgot how to coach all of a sudden? I just can't buy that....if people want to bytch about the offense go ahead. But I knew we had no wrs and they were pretty much unexplosive....I hated Brinson slow I didn't like Thad slow.....too many just regular *** dudes. I don't care what they did in HS even if it's in sfla......that's the problem most fans have they still stuck on these kids HS stats when cfb is a whole different animal.

 

[Dwinstitles]

It can't be all of these coaches, every time.

This isn't like Al Golden or Manny Diaz or Randy...this isn't a first time HC or in the P5...this staff is loaded with dudes that have won national titles, conference titles, played in championship scenarios. Many times over. The head man NEVER lost to a G5 team in the regular season at Oregon (I qualified it because he lost to a Top 25 Boise as an interim in the bowl game). Josh Gattis put 40 on Stockstill 3 years ago and won with Shea ******* Patterson.

4 games in and this staff takes an L to MTSU?

Alright now...wtf...

It can't be the coaching.....these guys are seasoned and were under saban. When u put all that **** together it's talent. The NFL draft has shown us its talent. That's the only proof we have is the NFL draft and the UM NFL players results on Sundays. Let's get serious we have no elite players playing pro bowls yearly. That's the only proof we have. So everyone telling me NFL coaches can't develope our players either? So I'm suppose to believe that? We have just normal *** players fact

The last time we were a juggernaut the players performed that way year 1 in the NFL. Year 1 they dominated.....not cause of some magical pill they were dogs with talent. Our Evals were the best under butch and it showed on Saturday and Sunday. Coker was trash and those players won him a natty period

 

[88]

They do but according to people here Kirby was cheeks and his offense was cheeks. I said that talent will win eventually. And rightfully so they winning

This board was traumatized Kirby starting doing things Richt never could early during his tenure. Of course they’re going to pretend like Kirby’s trash. The guy has put out some of the best defenses college football has seen and for quite some time now. There’s no way anyone can convince me his talent on defense doesn’t play up to their potential. He basically just won a championship making one side of the ball so elite it didn’t need a great offense. He’ll be called a corch because of his o but he at least makes one side of the ball elite. That’s more than anyone at Miami has done since Butch

 

[Cane6]

This board was traumatized Kirby starting doing things Richt never could early during his tenure. Of course they’re going to pretend like Kirby’s trash. The guy has put out some of the best defenses college football has seen and for quite some time now. There’s no way anyone can convince me his talent on defense doesn’t play up to their potential. He basically just won a championship making one side of the ball so elite it didn’t need a great offense. He’ll be called a corch because of his o but he at least makes one side of the ball elite. That’s more than anyone at Miami has done since Butch

Here’s the crazy thing when comparing Mario to Kirby…. All Mario needed to do was hire a solid OC to run the offense….. just not whiff

Monken has a good resume but at the time of hiring wasn’t viewed as an elite addition. He’s competent and knows how to use the players and their strengths

That’s all Mario needed to do

Combine that with recruiting and we would be sitting pretty. My other gripe with Gattis is it’s not like he’s an elite WR recruiter and developer of the position. Yeah he was at Bama, but that’s an outlier, and I put more stock in what he did at Michigan

Todd Monken - Football Coach - University of Georgia Athletics

NFL and college veteran coach Todd Monken was named Offensive Coordinator at Georgia on January 17, 2020. In his first season with the Bulldogs, Monken succe...

georgiadogs.com

 

[BoxingRobes]

It can't be the coaching.....these guys are seasoned and were under saban. When u put all that **** together it's talent. The NFL draft has shown us its talent. That's the only proof we have is the NFL draft and the UM NFL players results on Sundays. Let's get serious we have no elite players playing pro bowls yearly. That's the only proof we have. So everyone telling me NFL coaches can't develope our players either? So I'm suppose to believe that? We have just normal *** players fact

The last time we were a juggernaut the players performed that way year 1 in the NFL. Year 1 they dominated.....not cause of some magical pill they were dogs with talent. Our Evals were the best under butch and it showed on Saturday and Sunday. Coker was trash and those players won him a natty period

dawg, you're preaching to the choir. Just lots of guys. Very very few dudes, couple dawgs, couple of fun glue/grit guys that succeeded to varying levels. But just a bunch of ham n eggers with a whole lot of institutional rot. Just a culture of guys not caring about wins or working hard enough. Every class that comes and goes sees more and more losses, each more embarrassing than the next. A tradition of giving up in games and seasons that crosses coaching eras. Its wild, b. The same **** keeps happening no matter the coach.

People can talk about the incredible star rankings of our players, but those rankings, while flawed, hold weight...but "its not a perfect science" and there are inconsistencies with star rating and success of players...many of those busts fall under a few different categories...one of those categories is when that player goes to a program with poor coaching and cultural decay...we are often one of the examples of that right alongside Texas or Washington or something. That goes on long enough, it just becomes a stench attached to the program. We see it with Nebraska at the more extreme end, as they have lost all their dignity and as a result likely need to readjust where they prioritize football.

 

[MizCane]

Do we think Gattis gets his walking papers if we look like **** on O again vs UNC? What else would Mario need to see? If anything it’ll probably help recruiting if we can make it known he’s gone sooner than later.

 

[07Cane]

Now, more than ever, we need to bring back the touch down rings.

 

[JgDaCane]

We going to find out if Mario is a true closer cause a closer closes. We will see if that record hurts cause we will lose. I think the whole Chris Johnson shot is cap.....when kids say that I think they straight up bullshyttin. Like just say u were waiting for a better offer. Jordan Battle pulled that same **** had us 2nd then decommited and chose his 3rd option. I think kids do that so less backlash in sfla.

I just think it’s different here. Kids are looking for any excuse to not come here. We will see tho. I can’t see this class sticking together if we go 6-6 or worse. If it does then Mario is without a doubt the guy.

 

[252cane]

I do sort of agree.....but then I see I've and Flagg getting outrun badly and I'm like wtf do the coaches do about that. So Steele forgot how to coach all of a sudden? I just can't buy that....if people want to bytch about the offense go ahead. But I knew we had no wrs and they were pretty much unexplosive....I hated Brinson slow I didn't like Thad slow.....too many just regular *** dudes. I don't care what they did in HS even if it's in sfla......that's the problem most fans have they still stuck on these kids HS stats when cfb is a whole different animal.

Brinson ain’t slow. He isn’t a blazer either but he has ok speed

 

[Juanka]

I think this scares me more than it alleviates concerns, my brotha.

We need to mimic what Arkansas is doing. OL HC and Kendall Briles-type offense. Do that here with good recruiting, and we are cooking.