Player Development under Golden

[SFbayCane]

Something to keep in mind about coach Golden. He didnt make the travel squad at Penn State until his 4th year on campus. Think about that. He came in as a skinny tight end recruit and became known as a weight room warrior by his 4th season.

The idea that coach Golden's primary approach is to recruit potential and focus on player development should be of no surprise to anyone.

 

[jakeman1]

I like the fact that the sought after kids like Howard are all doing well. Grimble, from what I can tell, is the only bust as a 4-star kid, and a lot of people think his ranking was overblown. Lockhart was injured and AJL never made it in. Those are the only 4-5 star guys that haven't panned out.

 

[bomb]

The RS holdovers are here because Goldens has allowed them to be. There's a long list of guys who couldn't hack it, but these guys have endured and have become good players. It's been fun to watch them develop.

Imagine if these guys stayed for another year and commit to the program (attitude, nutrition, training etc)....

Streeter, Forston, Washington and Vernon

I don't blame BWashington for leaving, didn't he need the $$$ badly?

Yes he did, and now he has none.

 

[bandhammer]

If Al Golden was hired by Rivals to do their rankings, I have a feeling the rankings would look much different. We are getting great players. You have to trust that at this point.

 

[bomb]

If Al Golden was hired by Rivals to do their rankings, I have a feeling the rankings would look much different. We are getting great players. You have to trust that at this point.

You mean if a top 50 head coach in the world made the evaluations instead of former mailmen, janitors, barristers, and sanitation engineers who can't even get an NAIA asst. coaching job or a real journalistic gig writing for any sort of respected actual sports periodical? Nah, I'm sure they would be the same

 

[rsa coral gables]

As for this money issue, I have no idea. I am not in his family, I never spoke to BW and don't know his financial situation. I don't even really know about the so called "furniture incident."

I do know that somehow and someway, BW and his family made it to 2012 without the money he is making in the NFL.

There's a big difference between just making ends meet and living comfortably.

A few things:

1. How do you know their financial situation?

2. What happens if he received proper advice instead of leaving to be a 6th round pick?

3. What happens if BW stayed for another year and could have got a better contract?

On August 31, 2012, the team released Washington as part of its final cuts. On December 31, 2012, Washington signed a two-year, $1,060,059 contract with the St. Louis Rams. This was only after being cut by the Eagles.

Perhaps BW comes back and gets in better shape and plays at Miami for 2012. Works out, proper nutrition, better film and impresses scouts to get drafted in the 3rd Round.

Here is an excerpt from the third round pay schedule for 2013

"The third round picks are the first draft choices that do not receive the full 25% annual increases in their deals. Travis Kelce, the first pick in the third round, will get a $703,304 signing bonus in his deal with the Kansas City Chiefs. His contract will be worth approximately $3.16 million. The exact value will depend upon how close he gets to his maximum annual increase. Zavier Gooden, the last pick in the round, should receive a four-year, $2,666,016 deal with a $506,016 signing bonus from the Tennessee Titans." (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Previewing-the-2013-rookie-deals.html)

Let's assume that BW was the last pick in the third round, that means he could have made

1. $506,016.00 Signing Bonus

2. First two years (of the four year deal): $666,504.00 ($2,666,016/4 Years) - $530,029.50 (1,060,059/2 Years) = $136,474.50 (more the first two years)

3. Total: $778,965.00 (if BW gets drafted in the last pick of the third round)

So if it is about money, it was a stupid decision probably led by terrible advice.

good analysis except one error. you do not personally know whether he received terrible advice. i am in the "advice" business and i advise people what to do all day long. many times they do not follow it and they fall on their face. they received good advice but made the wrong decision. washington could have been given great advice and said "i'm going anyways." we dont know.

my personal opinion, he should've stayed, but that's behind us and i'm looking forward.

 

[TheEye]

Allen Hurns make the list?

 

[rok]

Allen Hurns make the list?

Hurns has always been Al's favorite. Shayon is a close second.

 

[k9cane]

I remember when some ( with obvious agenda's) claimed that there was no such thing as 'player development' that either you were a player or you weren't. Yeah, perhaps thats true if you're a Sean Taylor-type talent. But it's the guys that are just decent-to-good that absolutely can be harnessed and developed into players who steadily improve

The Duke Johnson's of the world are players from the get-go. But the 'coal-shovelers'- as Golden labels them - are the heart and soul of any program, are the guys that stick with it and become productive guys in their 3rd and 4th years. Those are the guy who benefit from a real staff that can actually develop talent

What we have not at UM is precisely that

 

[Houtxcane]

As for this money issue, I have no idea. I am not in his family, I never spoke to BW and
Let's assume that BW was the last pick in the third round, that means he could have made

1. $506,016.00 Signing Bonus

2. First two years (of the four year deal): $666,504.00 ($2,666,016/4 Years) - $530,029.50 (1,060,059/2 Years) = $136,474.50 (more the first two years)

3. Total: $778,965.00 (if BW gets drafted in the last pick of the third round)

So if it is about money, it was a stupid decision probably led by terrible advice.

You made 2 assumptions here.

1. They understand all the math.
2. Their ability to understand and accept delayed gratification

Most kids these days don't understand or appreciate either.

 

[Consigliere]

You made 2 assumptions here.

1. They understand all the math.
2. Their ability to understand and accept delayed gratification

Most kids these days don't understand or appreciate either.

I made no assumptions other than BW could get drafted in the third round. Which I believe if he committed to the program, he could have done just that.

I don't think these kids understand their choices (i.e. math, future cash flows, impact of decisions) and had terrible guidance. It was a deadly combination.

 

[nycane]

shannon didnt pick all those guys out. alot of them were because he offered them to fill numbers.

 

[Consigliere]

Manny Navarro ‏@Manny_Navarro 37m
#Canes coach Al Golden said team is trying to redshirt CB Ray Lewis, QB Kevin Olsen, FB Walter Tucker, OL Sunny Odogwu

Makes sense

 

[Coach Macho]

I give Shannon zero credit for any kids that was signed by him and currently contributing. Who was his gem? Jimmy Gaines? Clive and Hurns aren't studs, they're doing about as well as you would expect. He gets zero credit for Feliciano. Actually, the fact that you didn't know about that kid and that he had to approach YOU just shows how poor the recruiting was. Stephen Morris was found by Whipple if i remember correctly.

IMO none of the guys signed by Shannon are exceeding expectations. (like an Armbrister)

 

[Houtxcane]

I made no assumptions other than BW could get drafted in the third round. Which I believe if he committed to the program, he could have done just that.

I don't think these kids understand their choices (i.e. math, future cash flows, impact of decisions) and had terrible guidance. It was a deadly combination.

My bad. Should have said for these kids to appreciate what you have stated, they need to understand those things.

I have seen too many kids pass before me who don't understand nor appreciate simple concepts. I have almost given up teaching them except for those 10% that actually listen.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

I remember when some ( with obvious agenda's) claimed that there was no such thing as 'player development' that either you were a player or you weren't. Yeah, perhaps thats true if you're a Sean Taylor-type talent. But it's the guys that are just decent-to-good that absolutely can be harnessed and developed into players who steadily improve

The Duke Johnson's of the world are players from the get-go. But the 'coal-shovelers'- as Golden labels them - are the heart and soul of any program, are the guys that stick with it and become productive guys in their 3rd and 4th years. Those are the guy who benefit from a real staff that can actually develop talent

What we have not at UM is precisely that

I believe they expressed that player development was overrated. which was assinine. Yes, it's about the Jimmy's and the Joe's, but you have to recruit the right athletes that can compete and develop under your system. Golden relies heavily on his camps. You get to work with the kid and see how he takes instruction, how quickly he adjusts to the instruction, and what type of effort he gives during the camp. Wrap that around game film and interviews at the kid's high school and you get a pretty darn good picture if the kid can compete and develop at your program.

 

[Consigliere]

good analysis except one error. you do not personally know whether he received terrible advice. i am in the "advice" business and i advise people what to do all day long. many times they do not follow it and they fall on their face. they received good advice but made the wrong decision. washington could have been given great advice and said "i'm going anyways." we dont know.

my personal opinion, he should've stayed, but that's behind us and i'm looking forward.

See below. It is clear he was not pushed to stay in school and that there was bad advice.

“If I knew I was going to be drafted that low, I would’ve stayed in school..."

"Brandon Washington was told he could be drafted as early as the second round. If not the second, surely the third. Worst case scenario, the fourth.

Washington talked it over with his family, considered his options and decided to take the plunge. He would leave the University of Miami one year early and enter the NFL draft.

You can imagine the sinking feeling in Washington’s stomach as he watched the draft unfold. He was not selected in the second round. Or the third. Or the fourth. Or the fifth..."

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

I remember when some ( with obvious agenda's) claimed that there was no such thing as 'player development' that either you were a player or you weren't. Yeah, perhaps thats true if you're a Sean Taylor-type talent. But it's the guys that are just decent-to-good that absolutely can be harnessed and developed into players who steadily improve

The Duke Johnson's of the world are players from the get-go. But the 'coal-shovelers'- as Golden labels them - are the heart and soul of any program, are the guys that stick with it and become productive guys in their 3rd and 4th years. Those are the guy who benefit from a real staff that can actually develop talent

What we have not at UM is precisely that

I was literally just coming into this thread to post a similar comment. I distinctly remember a number of posters on the old Scout board (mostly Shannon slurpers) arguing that player development wasn't a real thing ... if you just recruit and land 4 and 5 star players everything will magically fall into place.

 

[Consigliere]

I made no assumptions other than BW could get drafted in the third round. Which I believe if he committed to the program, he could have done just that.

I don't think these kids understand their choices (i.e. math, future cash flows, impact of decisions) and had terrible guidance. It was a deadly combination.

My bad. Should have said for these kids to appreciate what you have stated, they need to understand those things.

I have seen too many kids pass before me who don't understand nor appreciate simple concepts. I have almost given up teaching them except for those 10% that actually listen.

Correct, people don't understand these things.

These same things happen in recruiting all the time, kids just get crap guidance (if any) and don't think at all.

 

[Dingaan1828]

If Al Golden was hired by Rivals to do their rankings, I have a feeling the rankings would look much different. We are getting great players. You have to trust that at this point.

That is the only point I think I need to understand about recruiting. Al is doing his own thing, and he's the one who's career is on the line. I trust Golden a lot more than Rivals, Scout, (fill in the blank).