PEDs

[BeastMode]

I don’t think people realize how big of a part of society ped’s are.
I work in an ER and tons of men are on testosterone.
Clemson’s top draft pick just got busted for ped’s and the media and ncaa just yawned at it.
To many examples of dudes getting faster leaner and heavier while in college. You can only attribute so much to nutrition and training. I know we live in an age where those 2 things are leaps and bounds to where they were 15 years ago. But 15 years ago guys were also juicing but the difference now is that the dosages and knowledge about how to do it safely is also ahead of where it was 15 years ago.
My brother and law does a lot of cycling down here.
And dudes at amateur level cycling are juicing. And they’re not even getting paid.
Another thing that nobody wants to talk about is that ped’s may actually be beneficial to some athletes. Especially in events like the Tour de France. To do something like that takes an immense toll on your body. Taking testosterone, cortisone and even hgh greatly reduces the wear and tear of an event like that.
The other scenario is taking a young man through the the stress of a football season. The tempo of training the demands of the coaches may lead to injuries that may be avoidable.
I know that’s a very difficult and controversial topic.
To say “yeah let’s put this 19 year old on steroids” is not going to be very popular. However to say it doesn’t go on is very short sighted. It’s been going on for decades. I mean the boz admitted to be on it.
However if you say that injuries can be reduced and performance can be enhanced and dosing is only minimal in a young man then that’s another story.

Just think about the ammount of athletes that have tested positive in every sport. If ped’s were so dangerous dudes would be dying all over the place.
Lyle Alzado was the poster child for steroid usage but he’s actually the poster child for steroid abuse and so was Rich Pianna.

Can athletes take testosterone if they are clinically diagnosed with low T by a doctor? I’m assuming testosterone is banned even with a doctors script for all athletes, right?

 

[Heals85]

Can athletes take testosterone if they are clinically diagnosed with low T by a doctor? I’m assuming testosterone is banned even with a doctors script for all athletes, right?

Not sure about other sports but testosterone replacement is legal in the UFC.

 

[pacusmc]

Can athletes take testosterone if they are clinically diagnosed with low T by a doctor? I’m assuming testosterone is banned even with a doctors script for all athletes, right?

I think some state have exemptions for low testosterone. But it’s only mma I think.

 

[BeastMode]

I think some state have exemptions for low testosterone. But it’s only mma I think.

I would think most sports would ban it as it could be a performance enhancer for sure. It’s not steroids but there are clear benefits to elevated T levels. Sucks if you have low T and play sports. You just have to deal with it so you don’t pop on a drug test.

 

[pacusmc]

I would think most sports would ban it as it could be a performance enhancer for sure. It’s not steroids but there are clear benefits to elevated T levels. Sucks if you have low T and play sports. You just have to deal with it so you don’t pop on a drug test.

Excessive training can absolutely drain testosterone even in young men.
I would actually say that just like the Tour de France it would be beneficial for athletes to be in some sort of ped regimen during the season. I would bet it would lower injuries due to decreased need for recovery. Lack of recovery leads to injuries.
Even in athletes like baseball players recovery is an issue. That 162 game season poor sleep and diet and too much partying is a big issue even with guys that are in shape.

 

[UMinati]

I put a link to TUEs - Therapeutic User Exemptions in post #91 of this thread.
Easily justifiable by a doctor based on available testosterone.

 

[GhostRecon_Cane]

No, they're not! The best scientific minds are on a daily basis working on PED's detection and while a few may slip through the vast majority do not. All this PED nonsense is being used to attack programs that people don't like.

Look at Major League Baseball. If juicing and illegal PED use was rampant we would be seeing, as only one example, homerun records being set similar to the Canseco, McGwire, Sosa, et al. era, which of course is not the case.

Boy you’re so clueless lol.

 

[1mg of Epi]

I put a link to TUEs - Therapeutic User Exemptions in post #91 of this thread.
Easily justifiable by a doctor based on available testosterone.

IIRC they still require that the athletes testosterone be within normal limits. So Theoretically there wouldn't be a competitive advantage so much as elimination of a competitive disadvantage.

 

[1mg of Epi]

I would think most sports would ban it as it could be a performance enhancer for sure. It’s not steroids but there are clear benefits to elevated T levels. Sucks if you have low T and play sports. You just have to deal with it so you don’t pop on a drug test.

Testosterone is the foundation all good cycles are built upon!!

 

[1mg of Epi]

****, you are making the CV offer. If you feel it is something I should review, then send it.

Was your company Med Fusion, acquired by Quest Diagnostics?

Once again, I ask you, if PED's of any description were effective and prevalent in today's professional or amateur sports world why are we not seeing Major League Baseball homerun production similar to the McGuire, Conseco, Sosa, et al., era?

The above is an easy question for a self-proclaimed PED and masking expert and should be simply answered.

I look forward to your explanation (hopefully this will not take time away from you incorporating a new start-up).

Wait.. you were serious about that MLB example? OK, lets play that out....

1) we know PEDs were prevalent in MLB in 1997, because 3 players threatened a 50 year old record.
2) We also know PEDs were NOT prevalent in the 20 years since those 3 players threatened that record, because no other players in that time threatened the record.
3) Therefore, PEDs were NOT prevalent in the 20 years prior to the 3 players threatening the record, because no players in that time threatened the record.

You are fully aware your argument is not valid.

 

[Earnest T. Bass]

Wait.. you were serious about that MLB example? OK, lets play that out....

1) we know PEDs were prevalent in MLB in 1997, because 3 players threatened a 50 year old record.
2) We also know PEDs were NOT prevalent in the 20 years since those 3 players threatened that record, because no other players in that time threatened the record.
3) Therefore, PEDs were NOT prevalent in the 20 years prior to the 3 players threatening the record, because no players in that time threatened the record.

You are fully aware your argument is not valid.

Stop with the bullshyt, although I know that's a tall mountain for you to climb.

As for your failing, sophomoric, pretzel logic hypothesis, it will only work with the teenagers with whom you apply temporary tattoos!

If people suspected PED's were prevalent, it would be talked about more than the Muller investigation/report. And believing that even sporadic PED use could be a well-guarded secret (masking or not) is well past delusional. The masses would be bellowing non-stop about that story, but then the facts would come into play which would shut-down the conspiracy theorists.

Major League Baseball has been played for 150-years. During those 150-years, there were only three seasons that saw bionic homerun production, 1998, 1999 and 2001. Guess what coincides with those years? PED’s use.

1998 saw Sosa hit 66 home runs and McGuire 70, both shattering Maris's record. McGuire extended his magic act into 1999 when hitting 65 home runs. McGuire's and Sosa's physiques had quickly transitioned into Incredible Hulk lookalikes making most of the league's players appear to be Pee-Wee Herman's.

Then, Bonds during 2001 big-footed his way onto the scene who for many years looked like Urkel, but amazingly after a blink of an eye turned into Mr. T. that resulted in 73 home runs.

During the McGuire and Sosa charade MLB was coming off a strike and waning interest. Many believe league executives knew the two amigos were juicing but did not want to hinder the renewed interest in the game. Yet, when Bonds did his impossible to accept as true Broadway act, it became too much for people to ignore and then the truth came pouring out that the now 3 amigos were all using, along with some others.

So, over the past 18 years there have only been several times where the annual homerun output was in the mid to high 50's, but mostly in the 40's. So, if PED use were "prevalent" or even sporadic during those 18-seasons then seeing the home run output in the mid-60's to mid-70's (if not even higher) would have been commonplace with only one exception...IN YOUR WORLD!

You are a snake oil salesman, although in fairness to you, a terrible snake oil salesman.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Stop with the bullshyt, although I know that's a tall mountain for you to climb.

As for your failing, sophomoric, pretzel logic hypothesis, it will only work with the teenagers with whom you apply temporary tattoos!

If people suspected PED's were prevalent, it would be talked about more than the Muller investigation/report. And believing that even sporadic PED use could be a well-guarded secret (masking or not) is well past delusional. The masses would be bellowing non-stop about that story, but then the facts would come into play which would shut-down the conspiracy theorists.

Major League Baseball has been played for 150-years. During those 150-years, there were only three seasons that saw bionic homerun production, 1998, 1999 and 2001. Guess what coincides with those years? PED’s use.

1998 saw Sosa hit 66 home runs and McGuire 70, both shattering Maris's record. McGuire extended his magic act into 1999 when hitting 65 home runs. McGuire's and Sosa's physiques had quickly transitioned into Incredible Hulk lookalikes making most of the league's players appear to be Pee-Wee Herman's.

Then, Bonds during 2001 big-footed his way onto the scene who for many years looked like Urkel, but amazingly after a blink of an eye turned into Mr. T. that resulted in 73 home runs.

During the McGuire and Sosa charade MLB was coming off a strike and waning interest. Many believe league executives knew the two amigos were juicing but did not want to hinder the renewed interest in the game. Yet, when Bonds did his impossible to accept as true Broadway act, it became too much for people to ignore and then the truth came pouring out that the now 3 amigos were all using, along with some others.

So, over the past 18 years there have only been several times where the annual homerun output was in the mid to high 50's, but mostly in the 40's. So, if PED use were "prevalent" or even sporadic during those 18-seasons then seeing the home run output in the mid-60's to mid-70's (if not even higher) would have been commonplace with only one exception...IN YOUR WORLD!

You are a snake oil salesman, although in fairness to you, a terrible snake oil salesman.

PEDs don't help nearly as much as you think they do. Sosa, McGuire, Bonds still would have been 3 of the best HR hitters of all time regardless of steroids. Of course steroids gave them that extra edge, but without them they still would have been ATGs. Its not like you could just give Jeter juice and he will all of a sudden break Ruths HR record. That is not how it works.

It just so happens that there are no ATG HR hitters around right now. The top guys now are still juicing. You would be naive to think differently.

 

[mirvin88]

Do you guys honestly think we don't have guys on PEDs right now? Like Clemson and Alabama are the only football teams in the country that have guys using them? Like every single program in the country doesn't have a "nutrition specialist" that makes sure their players don't **** dirty? 90% of the time when a player gets popped it's for a supposed "masking agent". High school kids are on PEDs. They're nowhere near as uncommon as a lot of people want to believe. There's a good chance a majority of the dudes at your local gym are using some form of performance enhancer and they're not even pro or college athletes.

Nope

 

[Earnest T. Bass]

PEDs don't help nearly as much as you think they do. Sosa, McGuire, Bonds still would have been 3 of the best HR hitters of all time regardless of steroids. Of course steroids gave them that extra edge, but without them they still would have been ATGs. Its not like you could just give Jeter juice and he will all of a sudden break Ruths HR record. That is not how it works.

It just so happens that there are no ATG HR hitters around right now. The top guys now are still juicing. You would be naive to think differently.

You are completely missing the point. Under the no **** heading, yes, McGuire, Sossa, Bonds were all great ball players, but without the steroids there is no way they would have come close to hitting the volume of homeruns they did. Load Giancarlo up with PED's and I guarantee you he'll hit 65 to 75 homeruns every year. The fact that after Major League Baseball came down on steroid use no one has come close to posting the steroid boys homerun numbers. ****, shortly after Ivan Rodriquez pulled the plug on his steroid use he looked like an underdeveloped 10 year old.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

You are completely missing the point. Under the no **** heading, yes, McGuire, Sossa, Bonds were all great ball players, but without the steroids there is no way they would have come close to hitting the volume of homeruns they did. Load Giancarlo up with PED's and I guarantee you he'll hit 65 to 75 homeruns every year. The fact that after Major League Baseball came down on steroid use no one has come close to posting the steroid boys homerun numbers. ****, shortly after Ivan Rodriquez pulled the plug on his steroid use he looked like an underdeveloped 10 year old.

Assuming Giancarlo isn't on them right now, no chance they are going to have him hit 16- 26 more homerunns than his single season record which is already 21 more than he hit in any other season. I don't think you realize how easy it is to beat the tests. Look at all the NBA and olympic athletes that are on gear. Wrestlers and boxers in the olympics are on tons of juice. Track athletes same thing. It is rampant in the NBA and NFL. To think the MLB has the secret test is ridiculous.

 

[1mg of Epi]

Stop with the bullshyt, although I know that's a tall mountain for you to climb.

As for your failing, sophomoric, pretzel logic hypothesis, it will only work with the teenagers with whom you apply temporary tattoos!

If people suspected PED's were prevalent, it would be talked about more than the Muller investigation/report. And believing that even sporadic PED use could be a well-guarded secret (masking or not) is well past delusional. The masses would be bellowing non-stop about that story, but then the facts would come into play which would shut-down the conspiracy theorists.

Major League Baseball has been played for 150-years. During those 150-years, there were only three seasons that saw bionic homerun production, 1998, 1999 and 2001. Guess what coincides with those years? PED’s use.

1998 saw Sosa hit 66 home runs and McGuire 70, both shattering Maris's record. McGuire extended his magic act into 1999 when hitting 65 home runs. McGuire's and Sosa's physiques had quickly transitioned into Incredible Hulk lookalikes making most of the league's players appear to be Pee-Wee Herman's.

Then, Bonds during 2001 big-footed his way onto the scene who for many years looked like Urkel, but amazingly after a blink of an eye turned into Mr. T. that resulted in 73 home runs.

During the McGuire and Sosa charade MLB was coming off a strike and waning interest. Many believe league executives knew the two amigos were juicing but did not want to hinder the renewed interest in the game. Yet, when Bonds did his impossible to accept as true Broadway act, it became too much for people to ignore and then the truth came pouring out that the now 3 amigos were all using, along with some others.

So, over the past 18 years there have only been several times where the annual homerun output was in the mid to high 50's, but mostly in the 40's. So, if PED use were "prevalent" or even sporadic during those 18-seasons then seeing the home run output in the mid-60's to mid-70's (if not even higher) would have been commonplace with only one exception...IN YOUR WORLD!

You are a snake oil salesman, although in fairness to you, a terrible snake oil salesman.

And you my friend, are a pedantic twit!

Earnie, you fundamentally misunderstand what PEDs are, why an athlete typically takes them, and the testing rules and processes. Here’s a few excerpts for ya, so u don’t have to take my word for anything. Included is a brief paragraph on homeruns, since that’s the crux of your”argument”.

On homeruns:
“The already murky (steroid) narrative gets muddier still when one considers the fact that after briefly dipping for a few seasons, home runs are up — way up — as demonstrated by the annihilation of the all-time record for home runs in a season. The previous high water mark of 5,693, set in the peak steroid era year of 2000, has since been surpassed by 2017’s mark of 6,104 dingers”
- And by the way, most of the positive tests the last few years have come pitchers, not hitters.

On PED testing:

“Finally, there were the mid-late 2000s — technically the “post-steroid era” because PED testing had been established — but the punishments were so lax and the scope of testing so limited that a Hall of Fame-caliber player like Alex Rodriguez was evidently able to beat scores of tests administered by MLB’s supposedly state of the art scientific enforcement regime, before being caught by an ethically questionable MLB investigation into his dealings with the euphemistically-described “anti-aging” lab Biogenesis.
- Hey look! A lab enabling a player to use juice, and still test clean! Sound familiar?

On MLBs oddly soft stance on Doping:

Further confusing the issue is baseball’s mysterious therapeutic use exemption (TUE) program, which confidentially grants players permission to use banned substances for medical reasons. In A-Rod’s case, he was granted a TUE to use testosterone in 2007 and all he did was hit 54 HRs and win his third MVP award.”
- hold up!! MLB actually allowed players to juice!! Where’s the pitchforks and headlines, Earnie?

 

[Earnest T. Bass]

Assuming Giancarlo isn't on them right now, no chance they are going to have him hit 16- 26 more homerunns than his single season record which is already 21 more than he hit in any other season. I don't think you realize how easy it is to beat the tests. Look at all the NBA and olympic athletes that are on gear. Wrestlers and boxers in the olympics are on tons of juice. Track athletes same thing. It is rampant in the NBA and NFL. To think the MLB has the secret test is ridiculous.

Giancarlo hit 59 homeruns without the juice. Seriously, you have o idea what you are talking about, which I realize is a common occurrence on the CIS message board.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Giancarlo hit 59 homeruns without the juice. Seriously, you have o idea what you are talking about, which I realize is a common occurrence on the CIS message board.

Yes, and that was 21 more than he has hit in any other season. I mistyped I meant 6-16 more homeruns. You are overestimating how much juice really helps.

 

[1mg of Epi]

PEDs don't help nearly as much as you think they do. Sosa, McGuire, Bonds still would have been 3 of the best HR hitters of all time regardless of steroids. Of course steroids gave them that extra edge, but without them they still would have been ATGs. Its not like you could just give Jeter juice and he will all of a sudden break Ruths HR record. That is not how it works.

It just so happens that there are no ATG HR hitters around right now. The top guys now are still juicing. You would be naive to think differently.

exactly right!! Hiring HRs is more a function of form, coordination and physics than it is strength.

Earnie doesn’t understand that a professional athlete using PEDs isn’t trying to put on as much muscle mass as possible... which is just a recipe for injuries.

 

[Earnest T. Bass]

And you my friend, are a pedantic twit!

Earnie, you fundamentally misunderstand what PEDs are, why an athlete typically takes them, and the testing rules and processes. Here’s a few excerpts for ya, so u don’t have to take my word for anything. Included is a brief paragraph on homeruns, since that’s the crux of your”argument”.

On homeruns:
“The already murky (steroid) narrative gets muddier still when one considers the fact that after briefly dipping for a few seasons, home runs are up — way up — as demonstrated by the annihilation of the all-time record for home runs in a season. The previous high water mark of 5,693, set in the peak steroid era year of 2000, has since been surpassed by 2017’s mark of 6,104 dingera”
- And by the way, most of the positive tests the last few years have come pitchers, not hitters.

On PED testing:

“Finally, there were the mid-late 2000s — technically the “post-steroid era” because PED testing had been established — but the punishments were so lax and the scope of testing so limited that a Hall of Fame-caliber player like Alex Rodriguez was evidently able to beat scores of tests administered by MLB’s supposedly state of the art scientific enforcement regime, before being caught by an ethically questionable MLB investigation into his dealings with the euphemistically-described “anti-aging” lab Biogenesis.
- Hey look! A lab enabling a player to use juice, and still test clean! Sound familiar?

On MLBs oddly soft stance on Doping:

Further confusing the issue is baseball’s mysterious therapeutic use exemption (TUE) program, which confidentially grants players permission to use banned substances for medical reasons. In A-Rod’s case, he was granted a TUE to use testosterone in 2007 and all he did was hit 54 HRs and win his third MVP award.”

Your absurd claim is, that there is, and has been, widespread usage of PED's in all sports on all levels. Your ridiculous claim is this is happening due to masking. That is patently false!

Yes, there have been isolated instances, such as Alex Rodriquez's story and others, but he was found out and his career/legacy was destroyed.

Worse yet, you have now resorted to pulling statistics out of your **** to try and prove your false narrative.

For what seems like the thousandth time I've put this question to you...why hasn't Major League Baseball regularly seen homerun single season individual production as they did during the proven steroid use era based on your claim that PED's usage is rampant? Even with extraordinary advances in nutrition, legal supplements and training that has positively impacted baseball production overall (pitching and hitting), yet the singles season individual homerun production hasn't come close to the PROVEN steroid era.

If illegal PED abuse was occurring anywhere near the level you claim the non-users would be howling. Clearly, you've never played any high level organized sports as you have zero idea as to the dynamics that occur in locker rooms and on teams in general. Again, your claim(s) are hilariously absurd.

What about the question I directed at you concerning Med Fusion?