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Pat Surtain

In the 2020 Class there were 4 5-star CB's:

Kelee Ringo

Eli Ricks

Tony Grimes

Dontae Manning

Wanna guess how many of them were drafted in the 1st round?

The last 5-star CB to be drafted in the 1st round was Derek Stingley from the 2019 class. The next 5-star CB to drafted in the 1st round will be GaQuincy "Kool-Aid" McKinstry. What do they both have in common? Corey Raymond & TRob were their Coaches.

There were 6 5-star CB's from the 22 class & only 2 are projected to be 1st rounders, Travis Hunter & Will Johnson, what do they have in common? One is Coached by Deion & the other was Coached by Steve Clinkscale.
 
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Memnon said:
That wasn't my point.

I didn't say that they didn't have a high hit rate, my point was even 5-star Corners still need Coaching.

People seem to believe that if you just sign a 5-star player that the player doesn't still need goof Coaching in order to actualize their potential, which is where the debate comes from between valuing a recruiter position coach or a more technically savvy Coach.

That was my point.
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Who believes that recruits literally don’t need coaching?

But the evidence does seem to indicate that cornerbacks do not need a ton of coaching if you hit on the elite ranked recruits.

which means it’s a position that should be a recruiting first hire, rather than a technician first hire.
 
Memnon said:
That wasn't my point.

I didn't say that they didn't have a high hit rate, my point was even 5-star Corners still need Coaching.

People seem to believe that if you just sign a 5-star player that the player doesn't still need goof Coaching in order to actualize their potential, which is where the debate comes from between valuing a recruiter position coach or a more technically savvy Coach.

That was my point.
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How many highly regarded recruits have never developed to the next level entirely because of not being developed?
 
mossmadness said:
Who believes that recruits literally don’t need coaching?

But the evidence does seem to indicate that cornerbacks do not need a ton of coaching if you hit on the elite ranked recruits.

which means it’s a position that should be a recruiting first hire, rather than a technician first hire.
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Levonta Taylor, Jack Jones, Shaun Wade, Darnay Holmes, Olaijah Griffin, Kelee Ringo, Eli Ricks, Tony Grimes, Dontae Manning, Demorie Tate, Jason Marshall, Denver Harris, Jaheim Singletary, Domani Jackson & Daylen Everette were all 5-star CB's over the last 8 classes, none were drafted in the 1st round & none are noteworthy players.

Either they were incorrectly rated as a 5-star, or along the way they didn't receive the proper Coaching.
 
Memnon said:
Levonta Taylor, Jack Jones, Shaun Wade, Darnay Holmes, Olaijah Griffin, Kelee Ringo, Eli Ricks, Tony Grimes, Dontae Manning, Demorie Tate, Jason Marshall, Denver Harris, Jaheim Singletary, Domani Jackson & Daylen Everette were all 5-star CB's over the last 8 classes, none were drafted in the 1st round & none are noteworthy players.

Either they were incorrectly rated as a 5-star, or along the way they didn't receive the proper Coaching.
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This part I don't agree with. Some of these guys flame out for different reasons. Rankings don't account for mental aptitude. Some of these guys end up being head cases. Some of these guys end up in log jams at the position. Some of these guys max out in college. Rankings should be viewed as more likely to succeed rather than guaranteed not to fail.
 
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cway313 said:
Rankings should be viewed as more likely to succeed rather than guaranteed not to fail.
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cway313 said:
This part I don't agree with. Some of these guys flame out for different reasons. Rankings don't account for mental aptitude. Some of these guys end up being head cases. Some of these guys end up in log jams at the position. Some of these guys max out in college. Rankings should be viewed as more likely to succeed rather than guaranteed not to fail.
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Absolutely, but my point is, people keep making the argument that you don't need a good position Coach at CB, to just find an ace recruiter & the 5-star Corners will just take care of themselves.

There's been a myriad of 5-star CB's that didn't do jack sh*t in college or the pro's, but the ones who did almost all of them ALSO had good Coaching.

I'm not & haven't made the argument that stars or talent doesn't matter, the argument that I've been making is that the Coaching they receive matters just as much.

People keep trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater basically saying we should just hire anybody who's a big time recruiter & ignore their Coaching acumen. And I'm saying, that's not going to work.
 
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So cliffs notes:

We need someone that can coach and recruit

Let’s see if one of these mythical unicorns exists
 
JHallCanes said:
So cliffs notes:

We need someone that can coach and recruit

Let’s see if one of these mythical unicorns exists
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Yep.

People that say, “all I’m saying is recruiting isn’t enough. You need coaching” are saying nothing.

Of course you need both.

But it’s like baseball. Would you love a team filled with guys that can both play the field and hit? Sure. But that’s a unicorn. So you prioritize positions based on, if you can’t get both, which is better?

So your corner positions tend to be where you want sluggers and sacrifice defense some. Up the middle is where you want a lot of glove and will sacrifice the bat some.

That’s position coaches. And if you can’t get the unicorn, as it relates to DB, it’s better to get an elite recruiter than an elite coach. Because it’s a position where elite talent is far more “just add water” ready compared to other positions.
 
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