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Our RB's

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OrangeBowlMagic said:
Just stop.
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bshaw28 said:
Not aimed at you. I get the concern. But my counter continues to be, how often does this actually happen? Can you remember it ever happening at Miami?

D$ said he had a million examples, and the 2 he gave were:

1 - From 17 years ago that had nothing to do with the RB
2 - From 8 years ago which the QB held on too long and got sacked, but not injured.

It it were common, wouldn't there be 2-3 examples everyone could give from the last couple years?

Our RB's are gonna give up 1-2 sacks every year. It's gonna happen. But the whole "the RB's are gonna get our QB killed" pretty much never happens. It feels like a Helicopter mom argument to me.
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Yeah I get that, my counter argument was coaches around the country dont play RBs tons of snaps who cant pass protect at least adaquately.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
If he coaches actual football for a living, ask him if this is the single dumbest thing he’s ever heard in his history of understanding the English language

Post in thread 'Our RB's'
https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/our-rbs.199693/post-7787904
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I’ll definitely ask, however I’ll chime in on this take. There’s a saying, if ur RB is blocking then there’s been a breakdown. Either the OL failed or the QB failed to read the defense & called the wrong pass protection.

Even in max protect, u do not want ur RB in a position to block. He should be the absolute last line of defense. Yes, u absolutely want them to be able to pick up free rushers on overload blitzes, but that’s not the primary objective of a RB. Fullback? Yes.
 
Y’all notice the posters pushing the importance of RB blocking ability vs those saying it’s way down the list for a RB and where they stand on their support or lack thereof for St. CoRchibal?

Based on this alone I know where I stand.

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Rellyrell said:
I’ll definitely ask, however I’ll chime in on this take. There’s a saying, if ur RB is blocking then there’s been a breakdown. Either the OL failed or the QB failed to read the defense & called the wrong pass protection.

Even in max protect, u do not want ur RB in a position to block. He should be the absolute last line of defense. Yes, u absolutely want them to be able to pick up free rushers on overload blitzes, but that’s not the primary objective of a RB. Fullback? Yes.
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Coach Sol’s RB’s were always great at picking up the blitz. Always

EJ
JJ
Portis
Gore
Najeh
McGahee destroyed blitzing LB’s and CB’s.

I’m pretty confident Soldinger would have said that the ability of an RB to pick up the blitz is pretty important to playing.
 
AtlAtty said:
Coach Sol’s RB’s were always great at picking up the blitz. Always

EJ
JJ
Portis
Gore
Najeh
McGahee destroyed blitzing LB’s and CB’s.

I’m pretty confident Soldinger would have said that the ability of an RB to pick up the blitz is pretty important to playing.
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I’m sure he would, too, which is y I said u want them to be able to pick up the blitz, but that’s not a RBs “primary” responsibility; &, if a RBs is constantly being tasked w that assignment then something is wrong.
 
Rellyrell said:
I just talked to my youngin’s position coach as he’s switching from DB to RB this season based upon what he did against Mater Dei in the playoffs in a losing effort:

From his mouth:

-Most important traits he looks for in a RB is speed, burst (the two r not synonymous), vision, hands, run through contact, football IQ.

Football IQ was defined as the ability to read defenses, but that’s more of a QB thing to call for blitz pick ups. He said pass-pro is important, but it’s the least of what he’s looking for. As long as they can get in the way to buy time based upon the offense they run, it’s good enough.

He said RB pass-pro is really important for long, drawn out pass plays; however, if he’s got a back that avg. 6+ ypc, he’s in, period. On obvious pass plays he may switch out, but he’s not trading pass-pro over production. Ideally you’ll want both, but one is way more important than the other.
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Not Soldinger or a SoufFla Coach... does not compute... does not compute...

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Memnon

Post in thread 'Our RB's'

Agree 1,000% BShaw.

When you take a look at the best RB's, pass protection is literally dead last on the list of qualities & attributes that makes them elite.

It's a really big deal on CIS because it's been used as the proverbial 9 Iron to bludgeon us to Death about why (insert fast young RB here) can never get on the field.

It's also why there's always a premium placed on big slow fizzicull RB's, because we always need them to do double duty as a backup Left/Right Guard.
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It's a really big deal on CIS because it's been used as the proverbial 9 Iron to bludgeon us to Death about why (insert fast young RB here) can never get on the field.

When we don't utilize a RB we were excited to get because of speed / playmaking ability, we use this phenomenon to explain away their underutilization. Insert legendary Miami coach from yesteryear said, and it is a wrap... lemmings

lemmings GIF
 
This is from COVID era...but its Tiki Barber discussing Saquon Barkley not being a good pass blocker (lol who gives a ****?) and as a result, not a three down back (lol)



#1 - The Giants had a dog **** offensive line - **** OL coach, too - and no quarterback and a **** OC for his entire time with that team. Barkley was going to look like **** or be open to that criticism.

btw - Saquon's knee blew up the VERY NEXT GAME because the Giants OL had 3 players put hands on Saquon behind the line of scrimmage and Eddie Jackson comes in untouched pushing Saquon out of bounds and blowing up Saquon's knee.

Fast forward a few years.


#2 - Now Saquon goes from a poor pass blocker to being the remedy for pass protection against the blitz for a Super Bowl winner?

Whats the point?

Pass protection is less a physical skill and more one between the ears and its also reps in a scheme. Lots of if-then scenarios, knowing what the protection rules of the offense are, what are the progressions of the QB and when does he bail to the outlet. If everything else fails ahead of him and he's the guy that was "late" sliding over (which was just his instincts kicking in on a play), he's getting docked for the blown assignment, but the play was a wrap before the ball was snapped. The between the ears stuff in football isn't something that can be showcased when the rest of the operation is a clown show (like the examples of the Giants above). Some OCs and QBs do a good job of helping their RB out with where to slide, where to lineup, pre-snap reads, etc. A RB not sliding over or late in time to block a blitz is more of a knock on the QB than the RB. Being in an offense that doesn't really have established rules for blitz pickup or doesn't practice it a lot, at a more advanced level is also going to make the RB look like **** as a blocker. The example of Damien Martinez going from a PFF graded **** bum pass blocker to showing up at Miami and looking like a pro involves some of Damien Martinez, sure, but he had a savant in the backfield with him in Cam Ward and a pretty good OC in Shannon Dawson with one of the better OLs in college football...and he looked more than competent in this skill. That's not a knock on Jonathan Smith (a coach I like), but there is a difference in the infrastructure that correlates to this specific skill we are evaluating.

If your OC stinks, QB stinks, OL isn't very good, TEs can't block very well...who gives a **** about a RBs pass block grade? I also think evaluating this as a layperson or just guys talking ball can be a bit silly because I think a lot of RBs are capable of being good blockers when they are in a position to succeed and if they suck at this particular skill when they get on the field, its usually not on them. They were the last line of protection on a play that was already broken before the snap. The NFL is filled with DCs that are really good at hiding, delaying, disguising blitzes. Making it look like there is an overload on one side and theres an avalanche coming on the other.

The NFL is also a league with very limited practice time (college, too) and getting reps practicing pass protection progressions are at a premium, and thats a skill they can't just jump into the game and think they can perform it without putting in the work. So, if you're relying on role players to have a pass blocking skill that they barely use in practice and expecting them to figure it out with live fire, thats also some buffoonery thats not really on the RB.

Was it on Keith Griffin for Joe Theismann's career ending or was it the guy that lined him up with no help to block Lawrence Taylor (with Joe Jacoby already not playing)?
 
BoxingRobes said:
This is from COVID era...but its Tiki Barber discussing Saquon Barkley not being a good pass blocker (lol who gives a ****?) and as a result, not a three down back (lol)



#1 - The Giants had a dog **** offensive line - **** OL coach, too - and no quarterback and a **** OC for his entire time with that team. Barkley was going to look like **** or be open to that criticism.

btw - Saquon's knee blew up the VERY NEXT GAME because the Giants OL had 3 players put hands on Saquon behind the line of scrimmage and Eddie Jackson comes in untouched pushing Saquon out of bounds and blowing up Saquon's knee.

Fast forward a few years.


#2 - Now Saquon goes from a poor pass blocker to being the remedy for pass protection against the blitz for a Super Bowl winner?

Whats the point?

Pass protection is less a physical skill and more one between the ears and its also reps in a scheme. Lots of if-then scenarios, knowing what the protection rules of the offense are, what are the progressions of the QB and when does he bail to the outlet. If everything else fails ahead of him and he's the guy that was "late" sliding over (which was just his instincts kicking in on a play), he's getting docked for the blown assignment, but the play was a wrap before the ball was snapped. The between the ears stuff in football isn't something that can be showcased when the rest of the operation is a clown show (like the examples of the Giants above). Some OCs and QBs do a good job of helping their RB out with where to slide, where to lineup, pre-snap reads, etc. A RB not sliding over or late in time to block a blitz is more of a knock on the QB than the RB. Being in an offense that doesn't really have established rules for blitz pickup or doesn't practice it a lot, at a more advanced level is also going to make the RB look like **** as a blocker. The example of Damien Martinez going from a PFF graded **** bum pass blocker to showing up at Miami and looking like a pro involves some of Damien Martinez, sure, but he had a savant in the backfield with him in Cam Ward and a pretty good OC in Shannon Dawson with one of the better OLs in college football...and he looked more than competent in this skill. That's not a knock on Jonathan Smith (a coach I like), but there is a difference in the infrastructure that correlates to this specific skill we are evaluating.

If your OC stinks, QB stinks, OL isn't very good, TEs can't block very well...who gives a **** about a RBs pass block grade? I also think evaluating this as a layperson or just guys talking ball can be a bit silly because I think a lot of RBs are capable of being good blockers when they are in a position to succeed and if they suck at this particular skill when they get on the field, its usually not on them. They were the last line of protection on a play that was already broken before the snap. The NFL is filled with DCs that are really good at hiding, delaying, disguising blitzes. Making it look like there is an overload on one side and theres an avalanche coming on the other.

The NFL is also a league with very limited practice time (college, too) and getting reps practicing pass protection progressions are at a premium, and thats a skill they can't just jump into the game and think they can perform it without putting in the work. So, if you're relying on role players to have a pass blocking skill that they barely use in practice and expecting them to figure it out with live fire, thats also some buffoonery thats not really on the RB.

Was it on Keith Griffin for Joe Theismann's career ending or was it the guy that lined him up with no help to block Lawrence Taylor (with Joe Jacoby already not playing)?
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Im sure it's pure coincidence that having 2 All-pro tackles changed the narrative.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
I understand all this, but you’re literally wrong. These guys might not be great blockers, but they’re absolutely asked to do it, and they do it well enough to not get their QBs killed. That’s what we’re talking about here. Not a great pass pro grade, no coach says “If my kid doesn’t have the #1 pass pro grade from PFF, he can’t play”. But you have to understand concepts. You have to at least get in the way.

Here’s a good example from a guy who can’t block and is never asked to, if you listen to this board. I don’t even really care about the effectiveness of the block, although this is a good rep. It’s more about recognition and getting in the way. If he keeps his eyes left and doesn’t recognize the defense, Micah ******* Parsons ends Carr’s life. That’s all coaches are saying. You have to be able to *understand* pass pro. There are a lot of players who don’t even see Parsons here, and your QB is now in the hospital. That cannot happen here.

Also, I agreed with your first part this whole thread. It’s a little coach-speaky to say a kid literally cannot get a snap if he’s not good in pass pro. That’s obviously not true. That’s trying to publicly say what you teach, that hey kid, you gotta get this **** down. There are other ways to get kids who are dynamic the football if they’re not great at this area, and you highlight some of them here. But saying **** like coaches don’t care about this **** and RBs only block if the OL sucks is so braindead I can’t even explain it to you. If you cannot do this (and YES, there are kids who are young and inexperienced in college football who cannot), you’re not playing. Period.

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I wouldn’t say that was good. But if you’re a beast runner all you need IMO as far as blocking is to recognize your assignment and get in their way. IDGAF if a Fletcher is another Anez Cooper behind the line if he can’t pick up 6+ a carry.
 
cway313 said:
Im sure it's pure coincidence that having 2 All-pro tackles changed the narrative.
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Here is a clip stolen from reddit. But highlights, its the mental.

As noted in the thread, SB usually reads A-L to C, but here, sees whats going on, moves his eyes, picks up the blitz from a rotating linebacker.


Now, for the coaching...

I conveniently left out the part where the Giants hired Brian Daboll and Mike Kafka (because that is what we do here on CanesInsight dot com) and Saquon became the best pass blocking running back in football in 2022 before he even got to the Eagles.

And also, Tiki Barber is an idiot which should just go to show you appealing to authority just because is for bozos. Keep fighting the good fight, brother.
 
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Angry Ibis said:
When we don't utilize a RB we were excited to get because of speed / playmaking ability, we use this phenomenon to explain away their underutilization. Insert legendary Miami coach from yesteryear said, and it is a wrap... lemmings
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So in this scenario you’ve imagined, what’s the real reason those backs aren’t playing?
 
DMoney said:
So in this scenario you’ve imagined, what’s the real reason those backs aren’t playing?
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From CJJ to Lingard to Storm Johnson, there’s always been a “reason” they didn’t get the burn to match the hype… “blocking” or “playbook” coach speak were often used over the years

CJJ and Brashard …
 
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