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Our RB's

bshaw28 said:
Reason #1 why RB pass pro doesn't matter:

Damien Martinez graded out as a horrible blocker at Oregon St - I mean REALLY BAD.

That mattered 0% when we made him a top priority in the portal last year.

We went after him hard for 1 reason, and 1 reason only - he's a beast running the ball.
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Get em man! Get em all! Hurricane Bernard Shaw the RB guru 🐐


All y'all better pay homage to the man and recognize. We need speed not Mario blocking greed.

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And on that note…

























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OrangeBowlMagic said:
I understand all this, but you’re literally wrong. These guys might not be great blockers, but they’re absolutely asked to do it, and they do it well enough to not get their QBs killed. That’s what we’re talking about here. Not a great pass pro grade, no coach says “If my kid doesn’t have the #1 pass pro grade from PFF, he can’t play”. But you have to understand concepts. You have to at least get in the way.

Here’s a good example from a guy who can’t block and is never asked to, if you listen to this board. I don’t even really care about the effectiveness of the block, although this is a good rep. It’s more about recognition and getting in the way. If he keeps his eyes left and doesn’t recognize the defense, Micah ******* Parsons ends Carr’s life. That’s all coaches are saying. You have to be able to *understand* pass pro. There are a lot of players who don’t even see Parsons here, and your QB is now in the hospital. That cannot happen here.

Also, I agreed with your first part this whole thread. It’s a little coach-speaky to say a kid literally cannot get a snap if he’s not good in pass pro. That’s obviously not true. That’s trying to publicly say what you teach, that hey kid, you gotta get this **** down. There are other ways to get kids who are dynamic the football if they’re not great at this area, and you highlight some of them here. But saying **** like coaches don’t care about this **** and RBs only block if the OL sucks is so braindead I can’t even explain it to you. If you cannot do this (and YES, there are kids who are young and inexperienced in college football who cannot), you’re not playing. Period.

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He literally stood in front of him for 3/10ths of a second & then almost held him after Parsons press-swimmed him.

If the QB holds onto the Football for a second later, it's likely a Sack.

That wasn’t anchor down stout Blocking, it was simply get in the way of the rusher for a brief moment.

That's actually an example that further illustrates BShaw's point.
 
bshaw28 said:
Reason #4 - Can you give an example of a RB, college or pro, who consistently made big plays when on the field (not just here and there), but couldn't ever get on the field because they could never pick up pass pro? I can honestly think of maybe 1.
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Ajay Allen?
 
Memnon said:
Agree 1,000% BShaw.

When you take a look at the best RB's, pass protection is literally dead last on the list of qualities & attributes that makes them elite.

It's a really big deal on CIS because it's been used as the proverbial 9 Iron to bludgeon us to Death about why (insert fast young RB here) can never get on the field.

It's also why there's always a premium placed on big slow fizzicull RB's, because we always need them to do double duty as a backup Left/Right Guard.
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Exactly.

Reason #5 - Here's how you can show that RB blocking means very little.

Answer these questions in your head, but go ahead an ask them to anyone

Who are the best RB's in the NFL at running the ball?
90% of you probably just thought of Derrick Henry or Saquon Barkley

Who are the best pass catching RB's in the NFL?
90% of you probably just thought of Kamara, McCaffery, Gibbs, or Achane

Who are the best pass blocking RB's in the NFL?
99% of you just drew a blank (myself included). Or you thought of Derick Henry because he's the biggest RB you can think of, but if you're being honest, you don't really have any idea if he is or isn't
 
bshaw28 said:
Exactly.

Reason #5 - Here's how you can show that RB blocking means very little.

Answer these questions in your head, but go ahead an ask them to anyone

Who are the best RB's in the NFL at running the ball?
90% of you probably just thought of Derrick Henry or Saquon Barkley

Who are the best pass catching RB's in the NFL?
90% of you probably just thought of Kamara, McCaffery, Gibbs, or Achane

Who are the best pass blocking RB's in the NFL?
99% of you just drew a blank (myself included). Or you thought of Derick Henry because he's the biggest RB you can think of, but if you're being honest, you don't really have any idea if he is or isn't
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Because you’re watching the games as a fan, not a coach.

None of our backs are of the caliber on your list. The talent level is fairly even amongst our top 3. In my opinion Lyle has the most potential as far as being a truly dynamic/elite 3 down back at this level.

If you want more snaps, then yes you are going to have to be able to protect the QB. And the coaching staff is absolutely correct in using that as an indicator to evaluate who should be getting snaps. I’m not going to complain about the staff being thorough in their development of any of our players.
 
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Memnon said:
He literally stood in front of him for 3/10ths of a second & then almost held him after Parsons press-swimmed him.

If the QB holds onto the Football for a second later, it's likely a Sack.

That wasn’t anchor down stout Blocking, it was simply get in the way of the rusher for a brief moment.

That's actually an example that further illustrates BShaw's point.
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And that’s all he needs to do. If he doesn’t recognize parsons is his man, Carr is dead. He doesn’t need to stonewall him, and the coaches here aren’t demanding our kids do that to get on the field. You just have to know where to go and to not get your quarterback killed.
 
DMoney said:
Coincidentally, I talked to Coach Soldinger at length today at practice. He said that our running back room is close to what he had back in the day. I think that's too ambitious, but I'm quoting him. He loves the physicality and temperament of Lyle, Fletcher, and Brown.

One thing he discussed was using more two-back sets. I think Fletcher is more similar to Alonzo Highsmith than Willis McGahee, so he's a great lead blocker in those scenarios (as is Lofton).

But yes, Miami's great running backs were known for their pass blocking. Edge, Gore and Portis were among the best pass protectors at the NFL level. McGahee wasn't as consistent, but powerful when he was on (see him flipping and injuring Cam Wake in the '01 PSU game).
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this is off topic and for the old heads but does anyone remember the fall camp 2001 or so (I could be off by years) when Portis was either calling out Willis publicly or was in Willis ear during practice (it was speculated that he was talking ish he didn't want to share carries with willis, but that could be BS) it was one of the two, the wevsites reported that willis had a bad greentree fall camp. I remember thinking that maybe Willis is never gonna make it here. then willis became the badest man in town and was a ******* beast.
 
DMoney said:
Coincidentally, I talked to Coach Soldinger at length today at practice. He said that our running back room is close to what he had back in the day. I think that's too ambitious, but I'm quoting him. He loves the physicality and temperament of Lyle, Fletcher, and Brown.

One thing he discussed was using more two-back sets. I think Fletcher is more similar to Alonzo Highsmith than Willis McGahee, so he's a great lead blocker in those scenarios (as is Lofton).

But yes, Miami's great running backs were known for their pass blocking. Edge, Gore and Portis were among the best pass protectors at the NFL level. McGahee wasn't as consistent, but powerful when he was on (see him flipping and injuring Cam Wake in the '01 PSU game).
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Two back shotgun or even pistol sets. Put Lofton back there, will be a serious problem!!
 
Memnon said:
He literally stood in front of him for 3/10ths of a second & then almost held him after Parsons press-swimmed him.

If the QB holds onto the Football for a second later, it's likely a Sack.

That wasn’t anchor down stout Blocking, it was simply get in the way of the rusher for a brief moment.

That's actually an example that further illustrates BShaw's point.
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I think the best way to say it is RB pass pro is more Pass/Fail than actually mattering to excel at or not. Like I think it absolutely matters that you know what your job (who to pick up) and make it take 1s+ longer than it otherwise would have for rusher to get by. But that's about it. I can see a guy who absolutely lacks effort at all not seeing the field because of it. But that wouldn't be lack of skill or ability ...
 
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
And that’s all he needs to do. If he doesn’t recognize parsons is his man, Carr is dead. He doesn’t need to stonewall him, and the coaches here aren’t demanding our kids do that to get on the field. You just have to know where to go and to not get your quarterback killed.
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Given the description you just gave, does that sound like something that's held to high importance?

Just know which direction to go & get in the way of the pass rusher?
 
bshaw28 said:
Perfectly said.

RB blocking is coach speak. Making plays with the ball in your hands is fun. Blocking isn't fun - it's dirty work.

So coaches overexaggerate how important it is to make sure RB's know they've still got to give some effort.

It's like a big time scorer in basketball who shows little interest in defense. The coach can go on and on about how important defense is, but if he can get buckets, the coach is playing him.
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Ty

Barry Sanders’ job in pass pro was to get in the way somehow and not get hurt doing so.
 
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DMoney said:
How many college teams are winning big with smaller, pass-catching backs?
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I'll use your example to answer your question - Ohio St with 202 lb. TreVeyon Henderson.

Better Question - How many college teams aren't winning because of their RB's poor pass blocking?

Even Better Question - Can you name 1 game ever where you'd say "The reason why this team lost is because their RB's couldn't protect the QB"?
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
And that’s all he needs to do. If he doesn’t recognize parsons is his man, Carr is dead. He doesn’t need to stonewall him, and the coaches here aren’t demanding our kids do that to get on the field. You just have to know where to go and to not get your quarterback killed.
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We’ll be good.

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Peachycarnahan said:
this is off topic and for the old heads but does anyone remember the fall camp 2001 or so (I could be off by years) when Portis was either calling out Willis publicly or was in Willis ear during practice (it was speculated that he was talking ish he didn't want to share carries with willis, but that could be BS) it was one of the two, the wevsites reported that willis had a bad greentree fall camp. I remember thinking that maybe Willis is never gonna make it here. then willis became the badest man in town and was a ******* beast.
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That wouldn’t surprise me. I think Portis used to bully McGahee.
 
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