Our RB's

[bshaw28]

I think it's more accurate to say they didn't care about some goofy PFF stats.

Their evaluation was that he had the size and willingness to be a good pass blocker. Fortunately, it was a good call:

PFF isn't the end all be all - but it's easy for anyone to dismiss when it doesn't show what they want to see.

I mean - when Martinez got a 12 & 21 grade - you think PFF got it wrong and he was actually good?

Reason #3 why RB pass pro doesn't matter:

We'll ALWAYS recruit a beast runner who sucks in pass pro but shows a willingness to be a good.
We'll NEVER recruit a beast in pass pro who sucks as a runner but shows a willingness to be a good.

If Martinez averaged 6 yds and sucked in pass pro, it still would've been a good call.
If Martinez averaged 4 yds and crushed it in pass pro, it would've been a bad call.

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

I watched our RB Coach Merritt's interview - and he made 2 points I might agree and disagree with the most when it comes to RB's

Point 1 (@5:55 - Disagree) - "At the end of the day, if you can't pass pro, you can't play here. For the guys to get on the field, that's #1"

If Girard Pringle comes in running & receiving like Jahmyr Gibbs but sucks in pass pro, he'll see the field. A LOT.

I'm not saying pass pro isn't important. I'm saying it's importance is wildly overstated. It's far from #1. I can give a ton of examples why.

All that really matters is his next point....

Point 2 (@6:23 - Agree) - "At the end of the day, the name of the game is making explosive plays. You've got to be able to create on your own. When you have those 1 on 1 matchups, you have to win them more often than not. It doesn't mean that every single time you're going to juke a defender out of his shoes. I mean, if you've got some space, and it's blocked for 5 yards, I need more than 5 yards."

I always say the OL can only do so much. Any RB can run through a huge hole. It's what RB's do when facing defenders that determines how good they are.

RB's can make defenders miss 3 ways - outrun them (Speed), run through them (Power), make them miss (Elusiveness). The elite have all 3 (or at least 2). But in some way, being able to consistently make plays & create for yourself is really all that matters for a RB.

BONUS - Fletcher was listed at 226 on his recruiting profile. He was 225 on the roster as a Freshman. He was 225 on the roster as a Sophomore. Now he's spent all offseason transforming his body and (according to both Mark & Coach Merritt).....he now weighs 225. Why there's such distrust of listed weights is funny to me.

Point 1 = hyperbolic coachspeak
Point 2 = fair commentary

The RBs do not need to be Penei Sewell level pass blockers. They do need to at least show some desire in that area. Blocking is a combo of effort and technique. Coaches can teach technique, not effort. As others already pointed out, if the RB sucks at blocking or flat our doesn't do it, defenses will key that RB. If you gave Merritt some truth serum, he would likely agree that his comments around point 1 were more meant like I wrote. And no, that's not because I'm some genius.

 

[cway313]

PFF isn't then end all be all - but it's easy for anyone to dismiss when it doesn't show what they want to see.

I mean - when Martinez got a 12 & 21 grade - you think PFF got it wrong and he was actually good?

Reason #3 why RB pass pro doesn't matter:

We'll ALWAYS recruit a beast runner who sucks in pass pro but shows a willingness to be a good.
We'll NEVER recruit a beast in pass pro who sucks as a runner but shows a willingness to be a good.

If Martinez averaged 6 yds and sucked in pass pro, it still would've been a good call.
If Martinez averaged 4 yds and crushed it in pass pro, it would've been a bad call.

Who is going to tell them about Derrick Henry?

 

[Alex_Dynamix]

This take is insane. We can't say Miami is this elite OL with elite coaching while simultaneously saying everyone has to block. Their are more than enough ways to cover for defencies.

LOL

 

[Alex_Dynamix]

How weird are you people?

This site is is full of em

 

[DMoney]

Reason #3 why RB pass pro doesn't matter:

We'll ALWAYS recruit a beast runner who sucks in pass pro but shows a willingness to be a good.
We'll NEVER recruit a beast in pass pro who sucks as a runner but shows a willingness to be a good.

If pass pro didn't matter, we wouldn't care whether he "showed a willingness to be good." But in the real world, he needs to be able to pass block to get on the field.

Ohio State is a good example of an elite backfield. TreyVeon Henderson was dynamic, but he was also one of the best pass-protecting running backs in recent memory. Quinshon Judkins crushed people lead blocking for Henderson. Our elite backs were built the same way.

Small finesse backs don't win in college. My evidence would be every champion of this millennium. Sometimes they're physical NFL monsters like Derrick Henry. Sometimes they're more limited physical backs like Blake Corum or Kenny McIntosh. But they're always physical. The only exceptions I can think of (like UF's Chris Rainey) played with physically dominant runners at QB.

To your main point: everyone would rather have a great runner with adequate pass blocking than an adequate runner with great pass blocking. Running is still the most important skill for a running back. But if you can't pass block enough to be trusted in a game, you won't play. This is pretty consistent across big-time football.

 

[Alex_Dynamix]

What? Isn't it pretty widely accepted that the Philadelphia Eagles have the best OL in football, with probably the best coach? Do you think Saquon Barkley and Kenny Gainwell don't pass block when they have to?

Or you're a Lions fan, right? You think Jahmyr Gibbs doesn't pass block?

It's obviously not the most important thing, he's a game-breaking back and breaking games is why he's there. But it's an insane take to say your backs need to pass block? What? We could have 5 Orlando Pace's on the OL, there are times the defense sends more than you can block and you don't have a hot read to immediately get rid of the ball, your back has to be able to recognize that and stick his mask into someone's chest or your QB gets killed. And on this team, if the QB gets killed, the team gets killed.

Kinda crazy to have to explain this basic football principle/knowledge to ppl but hey on CIS who gives af if the RB decides to block anybody lol jfc

 

[Applecane]

Question: How hard is it to learn to be a good pass blocker? From afar, it seems pretty simple to me. Of course, you have to be willing to do the job.

 

[Combo]

If pass pro didn't matter, we wouldn't care whether he "showed a willingness to be good." But in the real world, he needs to be able to pass block to get on the field.

Ohio State is a good example of an elite backfield. TreyVeon Henderson was dynamic, but he was also one of the best pass-protecting running backs in recent memory. Quinshon Judkins crushed people lead blocking for Henderson. Our elite backs were built the same way.

Small finesse backs don't win in college. My evidence would be every champion of this millennium. Sometimes they're physical NFL monsters like Derrick Henry. Sometimes they're more limited physical backs like Blake Corum or Kenny McIntosh. But they're always physical. The only exceptions I can think of (like UF's Chris Rainey) played with physically dominant runners at QB.

To your main point: everyone would rather have a great runner with adequate pass blocking than an adequate runner with great pass blocking. Running is still the most important skill for a running back. But if you can't pass block enough to be trusted in a game, you won't play. This is pretty consistent across big-time football.

Well said. Requiring your backs to pass block (at least adequately) is not unique to Miami.

 

[DMoney]

Reason #2 why RB pass pro doesn't matter (not directed at you - directed at the misconceptions)

Here's the Top 3 pass catching RB's in the NFL in 2024:

Devon Achane - 592 yds
Pass Play Snaps-456 - Routes Run-408 - Pass Block Snaps-19. PFF Pass Block Rank -129 out of 130

Alvin Kamara - 543 yds
Pass Play Snaps -376 - Routes Run-311 -Pass Block Snaps-45. PFF Pass Block Rank -101 out of 130

Jahmyr Gibbs - 543 yds
Pass Play Snaps-368 - Routes Run-310 -Pass Block Snaps-49. PFF Pass Block Rank -119 out of 130

What people probably don't realize:

1) On passing downs - the RB is running routes 85% of the time & blocking 15% of the time
2) The RB's anyone would want MOST on the field on for pass plays are literally the WORST pass blockers

Making plays is all that matters. Pass blocking means very little.

The NFL is different than college because of supply. There are dozens of tough, physical backs who know their blocking assignments available every year. Dynamic ability becomes a separator, and there is more time to find matchups for that skillset. Those NFL teams often use a powerful runner like David Montgomery as a complement.

In college, there aren’t cheap backs who are 215, can run and know how to play. You have to prioritize that skillset if you don’t have it.

How many college teams are winning big with smaller, pass-catching backs?

 

[Calinative]

I never said anything about not pass blocking. If you saw read the reports on both of those players their were question marks about their willingness/technique/size in pass pro. Guess what they still were drafted in the top half of the first round. Saying that if you can't pass block you cant play is stupid when you tout how amazing the OL is.

You have 5 Olineman. Defense can bring 6 every 3rd down. If you don’t have a RB that’s going to be willing and capable to block you’re screwed. When the D is only rushing 4 the RB isn’t usually staying in to block. So the point you’re making makes very little sense in regards to our Oline.

I agree that pass blocking should not be what determines who starts and stuff. But I’d also say a very good actual runner and legit starter isn’t just gunna be a bum in pass blocking unless he literally doesn’t try or care - which is the actual problem. All you need to be in pass protection is willing and able and at the very least give the QB one additional second…not excellent imo

 

[cway313]

You have 5 Olineman. Defense can bring 6 every 3rd down. If you don’t have a RB that’s going to be willing and capable to block you’re screwed. When the D is only rushing 4 the RB isn’t usually staying in to block. So the point you’re making makes very little sense in regards to our Oline.

I agree that pass blocking should not be what determines who starts and stuff. But I’d also say a very good actual runner and legit starter isn’t just gunna be a bum in pass blocking unless he literally doesn’t try or care - which is the actual problem. All you need to be in pass protection is willing and able and at the very least give the QB one additional second…not excellent imo

Thanks for saying the sane thing moron.

 

[Calinative]

Question: How hard is it to learn to be a good pass blocker? From afar, it seems pretty simple to me. Of course, you have to be willing to do the job.

Not all that hard considering there is actual legit value to even getting lit up by the defender your blocking if it takes long enough and throws him off the direct path to the qb…Nobody really expects the RB to stonewall Lb after LB rushing free with a head of steam every time. You have to put yourself between the qb and at least give him a chance though. All I care is KNOWING their assignment and getting their *** there

 

[Calinative]

Thanks for saying the sane thing moron.

It’s not saying the same thing. what you said made no sense. Caring about rb being good in pass pro or not has zero basis on whether your oline is good or not, because the defense can and will overload blitz. And **** they can be like the Vikings and just be very confusing and still require your RB to participate…

 

[hotshot]

Coincidentally, I talked to Coach Soldinger at length today at practice. He said that our running back room is close to what he had back in the day. I think that's too ambitious, but I'm quoting him. He loves the physicality and temperament of Lyle, Fletcher, and Brown.

One thing he discussed was using more two-back sets. I think Fletcher is more similar to Alonzo Highsmith than Willis McGahee, so he's a great lead blocker in those scenarios (as is Lofton).

But yes, Miami's great running backs were known for their pass blocking. Edge, Gore and Portis were among the best pass protectors at the NFL level. McGahee wasn't as consistent, but powerful when he was on (see him flipping and injuring Cam Wake in the '01 PSU game).

From anything I've seen so far, I can't put Fletcher and Highsmith on anywhere near the same level. Maybe Fletcher will narrow that gap for me this season. Hope so!

 

[bshaw28]

If pass pro didn't matter, we wouldn't care whether he "showed a willingness to be good." But in the real world, he needs to be able to pass block to get on the field.

Ohio State is a good example of an elite backfield. TreyVeon Henderson was dynamic, but he was also one of the best pass-protecting running backs in recent memory. Quinshon Judkins crushed people lead blocking for Henderson. Our elite backs were built the same way.

Small finesse backs don't win in college. My evidence would be every champion of this millennium. Sometimes they're physical NFL monsters like Derrick Henry. Sometimes they're more limited physical backs like Blake Corum or Kenny McIntosh. But they're always physical. The only exceptions I can think of (like UF's Chris Rainey) played with physically dominant runners at QB.

To your main point: everyone would rather have a great runner with adequate pass blocking than an adequate runner with great pass blocking. Running is still the most important skill for a running back. But if you can't pass block enough to be trusted in a game, you won't play. This is pretty consistent across big-time football.

Again - it's not that pass blocking doesn't matter, it just matters very little.

You don't have to be good. You just have to not be terrible. Being bad is fine (if you make plays).

Reason #4 - Can you give an example of a RB, college or pro, who consistently made big plays when on the field (not just here and there), but couldn't ever get on the field because they could never pick up pass pro? I can honestly think of maybe 1.

If a RB can consistently make plays - they WILL play.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Some of his takes are wild. LOL

Was genuinely one of the most jaw dropping posts I’ve ever read on here. It’s almost impossible to be so wrong about something but it’s all good. It’s almost football season.

 

[cway313]

Pass blocking>>>

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Reason #2 why RB pass pro doesn't matter (not directed at you - directed at the misconceptions)

Here's the Top 3 pass catching RB's in the NFL in 2024:

Devon Achane - 592 yds
Pass Play Snaps-456 - Routes Run-408 - Pass Block Snaps-19. PFF Pass Block Rank -129 out of 130

Alvin Kamara - 543 yds
Pass Play Snaps -376 - Routes Run-311 -Pass Block Snaps-45. PFF Pass Block Rank -101 out of 130

Jahmyr Gibbs - 543 yds
Pass Play Snaps-368 - Routes Run-310 -Pass Block Snaps-49. PFF Pass Block Rank -119 out of 130

What people probably don't realize:

1) On passing downs - the RB is running routes 85% of the time & blocking 15% of the time
2) The RB's anyone would want MOST on the field on for pass plays are literally the WORST pass blockers

Making plays is all that matters. Pass blocking means very little.

I understand all this, but you’re literally wrong. These guys might not be great blockers, but they’re absolutely asked to do it, and they do it well enough to not get their QBs killed. That’s what we’re talking about here. Not a great pass pro grade, no coach says “If my kid doesn’t have the #1 pass pro grade from PFF, he can’t play”. But you have to understand concepts. You have to at least get in the way.

Here’s a good example from a guy who can’t block and is never asked to, if you listen to this board. I don’t even really care about the effectiveness of the block, although this is a good rep. It’s more about recognition and getting in the way. If he keeps his eyes left and doesn’t recognize the defense, Micah ******* Parsons ends Carr’s life. That’s all coaches are saying. You have to be able to *understand* pass pro. There are a lot of players who don’t even see Parsons here, and your QB is now in the hospital. That cannot happen here.

Also, I agreed with your first part this whole thread. It’s a little coach-speaky to say a kid literally cannot get a snap if he’s not good in pass pro. That’s obviously not true. That’s trying to publicly say what you teach, that hey kid, you gotta get this **** down. There are other ways to get kids who are dynamic the football if they’re not great at this area, and you highlight some of them here. But saying **** like coaches don’t care about this **** and RBs only block if the OL sucks is so braindead I can’t even explain it to you. If you cannot do this (and YES, there are kids who are young and inexperienced in college football who cannot), you’re not playing. Period.

 

[bshaw28]

Point 1 = hyperbolic coachspeak
Point 2 = fair commentary

The RBs do not need to be Penei Sewell level pass blockers. They do need to at least show some desire in that area. Blocking is a combo of effort and technique. Coaches can teach technique, not effort. As others already pointed out, if the RB sucks at blocking or flat our doesn't do it, defenses will key that RB. If you gave Merritt some truth serum, he would likely agree that his comments around point 1 were more meant like I wrote. And no, that's not because I'm some genius.

Perfectly said.

RB blocking is coach speak. Making plays with the ball in your hands is fun. Blocking isn't fun - it's dirty work.

So coaches overexaggerate how important it is to make sure RB's know they've still got to give some effort.

It's like a big time scorer in basketball who shows little interest in defense. The coach can go on and on about how important defense is, but if he can get buckets, the coach is playing him.